Author Topic: Exiles vs Residents  (Read 10583 times)

eastender

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Re: Exiles vs Residents
« Reply #30 on: September 11, 2006, 11:39:04 PM »
                       I reckon that lots of Irish people do not see the scale of bitterness and the futility of the bigotry until they have left the country.
     

I think I've set enough fires on this topic, but I think the above statement says a lot.

Please let me finish with a few wee gems:  ;)

On another thread in the site, I think it was Bloomfield who said he was taught Irish history by an East Indian in Canada.  :)
I was 'taught' English history and Canadian geography in school, because the Belfast Education Authority, in their wisdom, followed the Associated Examining Board for GCE exams i.e. the English grammar school syllabus.
When I married my Canadian wife in 1978, she bought me the book 'Ireland, a Terrible Beauty,' by Leon Uris. I leafed through it politely, saw a few photos I didn't like and closed it. Approximately 20 years later, after reading books about Ireland and its history in a local library and surfing online, I finally opened the book and my mind and read the book.
My only question; "Why didn't I learn this stuff in school?"

Two years ago, we entered Belfast via sea on the HSS from Stranraer. As we came up the Lough I went to the front to take some photos. When I arrived, there was no room at the railing. It was literally full of, mostly men, standing looking towards the city in a trance, with the tears trippin them. What a sight! They were clearly people who hadn't been home in a while. Talk about emotional or what; I'll never forget it. That's what Belfast means to a lot of exiles, me included.
BTW I joined them. :'(

Thanks for indulging me on this topic. Cheers.

People want to know how much you care, before they care how much you know.

BLOOMFIELD

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Re: Exiles vs Residents
« Reply #31 on: September 12, 2006, 12:01:52 AM »
Eastender

Quote
On another thread in the site, I think it was Bloomfield who said he was taught Irish history by an East Indian in Canada. 

He was actually an African American Viet Nam war draft dodger from Santa Barbara. :)

Yes, the State schools in N. Ireland practised selective censorship in the teaching of Irish History, which in my opinion compounded the problems in Ireland.
"If someone tells me I've hurt their feelings, I say 'I'm still waiting to hear what your point is'."

Twocoats

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Re: Exiles vs Residents
« Reply #32 on: September 13, 2006, 02:01:05 AM »
Hi Everyone. Guess I started a good thread. I have patiently read everyones comments and still realise that we are all living with our memories. Belfast and the North in general has always had bigotery and intolerence. It just depended wether you were the flavour of the month at any given time. I did indeed enjoy my childhood and teenage years but like most of you I detected a phony snobbery within religous sections and a worse bigotory between religous sections. See attached news item from that famous newspaper the Belfast Telegraph. Twocoats

There were fears today that racial crimes which shame Northern Ireland are spiralling out of control.

And despite huge increases in the number of reported racist attacks in the province it has been claimed that most victims are still too afraid to come forward.

Yet another racist attack was reported yesterday - Nazi symbols were spray painted on walls along with the words 'Get Out' after windows were smashed in racist attacks on the homes of two Portuguese families Dervock, north Antrim.

A total of three windows were broken at the two homes around 100 metres apart at the village's McArthur Avenue estate on Friday, but details only came to light yesterday.

While increases in reported racially motivated attacks in Northern Ireland are now double what they are in the rest of the UK, it is feared that thousands of victims here are still staying silent.

Experts today warned that not enough is being done at community level to tackle the problem and unless immediate action is taken race crime in Ulster could soon reach crisis point.

"The number of incidents reported to police is just the tip of the iceberg. The true figure could be double, or even treble that," warned Patrick Yu, director of NICEM - the Northern Ireland Council For Ethnic Minorities.

He added: "Only half of the people who we work with go to the police, even though we encourage them to report the crime.

"Very little is being done in Northern Ireland and we are currently pushing the government to deliver better services to victims before it gets even worse."

However, East Antrim MP Sammy Wilson said while there is no doubt there has been an increase in racist attacks there is no need to be alarmist.

He said: "There is no doubt that this is an issue which needs to be addressed but I think if we are alarmist about this it can do more harm than good. We need to think about what we can actually do to improve this."

The worrying level of Northern Ireland's race crime problem came to the fore again at the weekend when a mother with a five-month-old baby was forced from her home near Armagh city by three men.


Christopher

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Re: Exiles vs Residents
« Reply #33 on: September 13, 2006, 03:03:04 AM »
Hiya Twocoats, I met a Polish guy who lives in the same town as I do when I went to the newsagents yesterday evening. He speaks very little English and I speak no Polish. We always say "Hello" when we meet. He told me he is working very hard. I wonder how many immigrants are in the north of Ireland at the moment. I feel the racist attacks may be committed by supporters of the BNP. They have made one or two attempts to get support in this part of the world before. 

eastender

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Re: Exiles vs Residents
« Reply #34 on: September 13, 2006, 07:00:00 AM »
Twocoats:

Yes that was quite the thread you started. I hope you enjoyed the crack.  ;D

That was some story from the Tele. I assume that Christopher means a party (BNP) like The National Front/Skinheads etc.
I remember 30 odd years ago readin about Pakky bashin in England, after the influx of immigrants from there. Maybe it's an unfortunate symtom of migration to a place that hasn't had much or any in the past?

I don't think Belfast or NI is alone in such problems. Take a look at France's fires over the past year for example. From what I read, that's a violent ethnic backlash to feeling like second class citizens. Didn't London (Brixton) go through that about 15 to 20 years ago?

It appears to be part of the cycle unfortunately.

People want to know how much you care, before they care how much you know.

Wendl

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Re: Exiles vs Residents
« Reply #35 on: September 13, 2006, 08:19:35 PM »

I've hesitated in posting on this thread but have decided to anyways....I was born here in Canada....my family left Belfast in 1928, mostly due to the fact that my Gr Grandfather was Protestant and my Gr Grandmother was catholic, and they dared to cross the religious barriers and marry. I can remember my Granda telling us horrific stories about people they knew who "were found out", it went so far that my Grt Grannie lied on the 1911 Census and said she was presbyterian.....what a shame to be that frightened of stating your religion.
I have family on both sides in Belfast, and most of them are of the same opinion I am ... you judge a person by the fact that they are a decent human being...not their religion, the school they went to, or how much money they have in their pockets....my da always taught us...."it's the man who makes the money....not the money that makes the man"

An interesting story of what happened when I was home last summer....I was out with some of my rellies from the East, at a parade function, I called a taxi to go home for the night....when the taximan arrived, one of my cousin's from the West called my cellphone and wanted me to meet them at a Club on the West side of Belfast....I had no clue as to the directions she gave so passed the phone to the Taximan.....all the colour drained from his face, his eyes got big a saucers....and he just kept sayin right, right....when the conversation ended I thot he was going to have a coronary!  He shouted at me...."do you know where you are" .said yes, at an Orange Hall.....he says, "do you know where your goin"....I said yes...I'm going to meet my cousin!  Once, I explained I had rellies on both sides and did'nt bother about the whole thing...he seemed to relax a bit....then started explaining things from his perspective.....needless to say I was shocked.  Living here...I go where I want, when I want, and have no worries.

If you take a wee stroll in the courtyard across from St. Anne's Cathedral there is an inset stone in the pavement that I found extrmely interesting.  It states.

Ireland is a very lovely country.  Inded there is only one thing wrong with it, and that is the people that are in it have not the common sense to live in peace with one another and with their neighbours. .Robert Lloyd Praeger (1865-1955) 

Now doe'snt that make you stop and think.
When you are content to be simply yourself and don't compete or compare.....everyone will respect you!
Lao-Tzu

giannineo

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Re: Exiles vs Residents
« Reply #36 on: September 13, 2006, 09:43:45 PM »
The divide and rule thing surely is a big part of Norn Ireland's history.Set the workforce against each other and the fat cats have the upper hand.Not so much the guy in the street having a hatred of other guys in the street,but the rich guy keeping it that way to his own advantage.
        Look at Derry in the past. .live in my house,work in my factory and I have you by the short and curlies.

BLOOMFIELD

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Re: Exiles vs Residents
« Reply #37 on: September 13, 2006, 09:47:13 PM »
Wendl

Welcome to the board.
Lots of people think like you in N. Ireland, but it is the rotten apples ( on both sides ) that perpetuates the hatred and bigotry.

I was interested in your quote by R.L.Praeger, I did an internet search on him.

At Sullivan Upper school in Holywood, one of the houses was called Praeger, I wonder if it was him that they were honouring .  ???

Correction   it might be honouring his Sister

Quote
Sophia Rosamond Praeger was the younger sister of the naturalist Robert Lloyd Praeger (q.v.), and was born in Holywood and educated at Sullivan Upper School, the Belfast School of Art and the Slade School of Art in London. She also studied art in Paris. She wrote and illustrated children's books, but is best known for her sculpture. The Philosopher (which was shown at the Royal Academy) is now in Colorado Springs, U.S.A. Among many other works, her well-loved Johnny The Jig is to be seen in Holywood (between the maypole and the Priory); the Causeway School, near Bushmills, has her Fionnuala the Daughter of Lir. She also modelled figures for such diverse bodies as the Northern Bank, the Carnegie Library on the Falls Road and St Anne's C. of I. Cathedral, Belfast. She was President of the Ulster Academy. She received an honorary MA from Queen's University in 1927, and in 1939 was awarded the MBE. Her work is included in the permanent collections of the Ulster Museum and the NGI.
"If someone tells me I've hurt their feelings, I say 'I'm still waiting to hear what your point is'."

eastender

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Re: Exiles vs Residents
« Reply #38 on: September 13, 2006, 11:01:10 PM »
Welcome aboard Wendl! 8)

Yer Da sounds like a smart man!

Believe it or not, until I emigrated at 22, I had no idea the Titanic was built in Belfast (I thought it was American), who C.S. Lewis was, or that he lived in a big house on the Circular Road that I went past twice everyday, to and from school.

That's what comes of 'teaching' history other than yer own.
People want to know how much you care, before they care how much you know.

Wendl

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Re: Exiles vs Residents
« Reply #39 on: September 13, 2006, 11:18:30 PM »
Thanks for the Welcomes!!!

Ahhh you know tho....On the whole Belfast is a fabulous place!  it's steeped in history both good and bad, and the people... My god, they are so friendly and welcoming.....I just think it's so tragic that so many people have been displaced over things that seem so trivial to someone from afar....and the sad part is....no matter how long your away, when your born on the Emerald Isle you always yearn for home!
When you are content to be simply yourself and don't compete or compare.....everyone will respect you!
Lao-Tzu

Twocoats

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Re: Exiles vs Residents
« Reply #40 on: September 13, 2006, 11:55:42 PM »
Welcome aboard brother. Twocoats here. I started this thread and I must say the response was good. As they say "you can take the boy out of Belfast but you can't take Belfast out of the boy".  I think we all believe we enjoyed our memories of our youth but we are also smart enough to know that we were all brought up with some form of bigotery or intolerance no matter how small. As a protestant I only ever learned British or English history for which I can thank the Unionist politicians of the time. It would have been nice to learn something about Ireland. After all my Grandparents were born and raised in a "whole Ireland" prior to 1922. I can only hope it is not too late for me to apologise to my boyhood catholic friend for being such a [censored] at the 12th. Didn't mean to be but we were all caught up with the bands etc for the 12th fortnight. For the other 50 weeks of the year we were the best of pals. Remember that the prods living in the kitchen houses on the Shankill and East Belfast had the cheek to look down on the People on the Falls living in the same kitchen houses. Maybe a workers revolution of both religions would have given everyone a better living. Don't want to go too far. Suffice to say I enjoyed my youth and have good memories but with some reservation. Coats

Christopher

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Re: Exiles vs Residents
« Reply #41 on: September 14, 2006, 03:33:24 AM »
What's going on here ??? Wendl ??? There's a name I know from a well known genealogy website ...
RootsChat I believe :D Welcome to Belfast Forum Wendl.

Christopher

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Re: Exiles vs Residents
« Reply #42 on: October 05, 2006, 03:10:37 AM »
The Residents here have a cross to bear right enough. Once people from the North emigrate they get on fine no matter what their persuasion. I've just noticed that on Sunday 4th June at the annual service remembering those who were injured and those who died whilst serving in the RUC there was one person who refused to attend because of his beliefs. The man is a Christian minister .. the Presbyterian Moderator Harry Uprichard did not attend because another Christian minister, a Roman Catholic priest attended the service. Now I'm quite sure that many RUC officers and men are members of his flock so why hold such beliefs. The RUC officers and men came from most of the faiths in the Province .. I'm not sure if there were Jews in the force at any time .. I'd be interested to know if there were.   

I whole heartedly agree with Eric Waugh whose article in the Tele on Friday 2nd June mentioned this incident. The actions of Rev. Harry Uprichard were deplorable. Have we in the north of Ireland any chance of making progress when a Christian clergyman in his position is so petty minded. If Rev. Harry needs police assistance at any time will he ask that only Presbyterian policemen come to his aid. ....I think he'd not be too fussy what beliefs they held so why should he have one set of standards when attending a religious service and another if he requires assistance.

BLOOMFIELD

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Re: Exiles vs Residents
« Reply #43 on: October 05, 2006, 03:27:28 AM »
Christopher

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The Residents here have a cross to bear right enough. Once people from the North emigrate they get on fine no matter what their persuasion.

Most of them do, but there will always be the a$$holes, who want to continue " The fight"

From a distance, most of us can see the stupidity that is perpetuated in Ireland.

I joined a local Irish Club, but I soon left it.

When some of them got drunk later on in the evening, they wanted to re- fight the Battle of the Boyne.

It's inbred into some of us
"If someone tells me I've hurt their feelings, I say 'I'm still waiting to hear what your point is'."

Christopher

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Re: Exiles vs Residents
« Reply #44 on: October 05, 2006, 03:41:38 AM »
Bloomfield, were you there on the night the Historical Re-enactment Society hold their weekly meeting ???