Author Topic: Exiles vs Residents  (Read 10265 times)

Twocoats

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Exiles vs Residents
« on: September 09, 2006, 10:29:42 PM »
How many exiles do we have on the forum. Are we all living on our memories. Just got back from a 3 week visit to N Ireland. I have lived in Vancouver longer now than I did in N. Ireland. I know where my home is and it is not N. Ireland with its total lack of tolerance. There is still religous intolerance and now there is a racial intolerance against the Polish  and other European immigrants. Northern Irish people of all people should be more tolerant with everyone after what they all have gone through. During my recent visit I made a point of going to all my old haunts and taking a few pics. The Astor is a parking lot and all the bars are selling cider. I have great memories of my youth in the sixties but that is what they are. Memories. I am moving on with my life and I can only hope that the politicians and people of N. Ireland can learn to get along and get over it. I will be tough if they continue to dwell in the past.
The drug dealers, both religions, have taken over and woe betide anyone who gets in their way. Comments are welcome. Sincerely. Twocoats

eastender

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Re: Exiles vs Residents
« Reply #1 on: September 09, 2006, 10:47:12 PM »
Twocoats,

I hear ya, eh!!

I haven't been back in 2 years, so I can't comment on the East European remark.

The one lack of tolerance you forgot to mention is still rampant and I've detected it clearly on this forum too. It is the so-called, perceived class structure that identifies and categorizes people because of the way they look, talk (or write  ;)) and especially because of perceived education or lack of it.

If you grew up in Belfast in the 60s you saw the would-be snobbery, based upon what school uniform you wore. At 11 years of age, you were classified as 'smart' or 'stupid' and streamed accordingly.

I went to primary school with kids whose parents were loaded, so it didn't matter whether or not the kids were 'smart.' They headed off to Cabin Hill and Campbell College, no matter what. Kids I played with one year, looked down their snozzles a year later, because they went to such and such a school.

It is no wonder old comedies like Are You Being Served, Keeping Up Appearances and Fawlty Towers are so popular in North America. The North Americans think it's fictional and totally laughable, but you and I know it's based on fact.

I love visiting Belfast, but as you say; just for the memories!
People want to know how much you care, before they care how much you know.

Twocoats

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Re: Exiles vs Residents
« Reply #2 on: September 10, 2006, 12:45:27 AM »
I'm from the Cregagh originally. You are right about the inverted snobbery. It still exists. My Mum made sure I went to school and I went to Newtownards Tech after my 11 plus. On to Navigation School and an Apprenticeship in the MN. Got all my Tickets including Masters Deep Sea but still came from the Cregagh. As I say to some of my old snobbish friends. From the Cregagh and proud. Here in Canada a mans worth is not where he is from but how he lives his life. Spent 26 years with the Vancouver Fire Department. No snobbery there, Keep in touch. Coats

Mageeka

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Re: Exiles vs Residents
« Reply #3 on: September 10, 2006, 02:53:20 AM »
Twocats
I agree with you entirely
The city is not the same. It is unsafe and it has lost its finer culture, that we can remember. I was home in May and I found out that you cannot look at anyone, without recieving menacing looks, or verbal attack
EG
"What the [censored] are you looking at ?" Is the word of the day
There are scumbag hoods all over the Falls and although they are young they can and do inflict a lot of damage to innocent folk who pass by them
Most are fuelled with booze or drugs

Christopher

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Re: Exiles vs Residents
« Reply #4 on: September 10, 2006, 03:07:27 AM »
I can't comment. I live in Ballynahinch. I've been in the city centre. It's not too bad. I think the situation in North Belfast is not the greatest. The hoods in that area are arguing amongst themselves. They tend to be arrogant, ignorant lowdown scum of the earth. Who the heck elected them? They are not politicians. They are not local councillors. What the heck are they? Why are they still allowed to carry on the way they do?

Twocoats

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Re: Exiles vs Residents
« Reply #5 on: September 10, 2006, 03:13:06 AM »
Hi Mageeksa. Just got home last week. Saw your brother Gerry was playing at the Europa. Couldn't make it though as I was there for a wedding. Did make a road trip to the Falls with my brother. Bought a Claddagh ring from a nice young lady in a jewellers on the Falls. Told her I was brought up Protestant but felt Irish as I now live in Canada. She looked at me like she didn't get too many "prod" customers in her store but then said "wouldn't it be nice if we all felt that way and all got along" From out of the mouth of young ones. The thugs are all over the country. Falls, Shankill, East Belfast. Drug dealer hacked to death in broad daylight by 6 thugs in a Bangor estate. Don't want to be morbid but I think people who live there become immune. Too many years of whatever will dull the brain. While I drove through Dundonald they have a gable painting of the VC recipient McGennis. Now the people are starting to recognise true heros and not the crap that they have put up with for the last 3o odd years. Pity he couldn't have been treated better wgen he was alive. Coats

Christopher

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Re: Exiles vs Residents
« Reply #6 on: September 10, 2006, 03:39:09 AM »
James Joseph Magennis VC may have been the one that stood out because he won the VC Twocoats. Thousands of heroes from two World Wars returned home to the south of Ireland and were totally ignored. They could not get work. They were shunned by people in the communities in which they lived because they fought in the British Army.

Mageeka

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Re: Exiles vs Residents
« Reply #7 on: September 10, 2006, 03:52:51 AM »
Hey Twocats too bad you missed the Bro
He'd have bought you a couple of pints.

The whole situation in the areas IMO were created by insensitivity which has grown through the troubles. Remember also that these young and older punks grew up without fear of the law
In my day the sight of a Policemans button was enough
ro scare me. I also knew that my parents would have knocked 2 different colors of [censored] out of me for any infraction
The onus must be put on the parents
Remember the old T.V warning

It is Ten O'Clock !
Do you know where your children are ?"

How those words  wane in to-day's society

Christopher

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Re: Exiles vs Residents
« Reply #8 on: September 10, 2006, 04:03:06 AM »
"Ach sure they're out with their friends having a bit of crack" :D
Little do they realise how true those words may be. That may well account for their behaviour patterns.

Twocoats

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Re: Exiles vs Residents
« Reply #9 on: September 10, 2006, 04:05:14 AM »
What you say is true Mageeka. That's why we have the memories. In reply to Christopher there is one historical correction. During the first world war all of Ireland was part of Britain. In the second conflict Ireland was divided but brave men from the South answered the call. Indeed Blair Mayne often said that the southern troops under his command were some of the best. We are digressing though. MacGennis was from the North but was Catholic. He did not get the recognition because of that. In Canada I do not know, nor do I want to, my neighbour's religion. If he invites me over for a drink I only want to know what he drinks. Coats

Christopher

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Re: Exiles vs Residents
« Reply #10 on: September 10, 2006, 04:23:07 AM »
It depends who, what and where you are in the north of Ireland Twocoats. There are a great many people like yourself who are not interested in their neighbours faith. They know their religion is similar to their own .. Christian. Those who call their neighbours names and harass them because they follow a different branch of Christianity are making life hard for everyone. Sure you don't have to look too hard at events over the past thirty odd years .. each side had it in for the other side but the evidence is there that each side took out some of their own too. Why should a woman have been tortured and killed because she cradled the head of a dying British soldier? Why did the clergy, social services, teachers and many others not speak out long and loud and say "Stop. This is wrong"

eastender

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Re: Exiles vs Residents
« Reply #11 on: September 10, 2006, 05:19:53 AM »
True story:

On our last visit back in 2004, my wife and I were sitting eating breakfast in our B&B. A man and presumably his wife in their mid 40s came in and sat down. I could tell by their accents that they were from the country, not Belfast. The woman was friendly and said Hello. The man nodded in a suspicious manner I remembered from growing up in NI. My wife started conversing about the weather and the other woman conversed back. The woman could tell that my wife was not from NI and asked where she was from. My wife said she was from Canada. The woman appeared interested and the man visibly relaxed and instantly became somewhat friendly. During conversations, my wife said I was originally from Belfast. Free verbal exchanges ceased; replaced by the woman's visible discomfort and the man's suspicious demeanour.

My wife failed to understand the change in both people and asked me about it later. I explained to her that both were not threatened by her because she was a foreigner and could care less about her religion, but as soon as she mentioned where I came from, they felt threatened because they might be in conversation with someone of a different religion.

"Isn't that sad," said my wife.
People want to know how much you care, before they care how much you know.

Christopher

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Re: Exiles vs Residents
« Reply #12 on: September 10, 2006, 05:56:53 AM »
Obviously not friendly Ulster people :D I've no trouble with Dubliners or people across the border. Even here I've never had that problem. If people ask where did you go to school I always say Dublin. Why should I hide the fact? I'm as Irish as any Irishman.

ulsterstan

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Re: Exiles vs Residents
« Reply #13 on: September 10, 2006, 06:53:14 AM »
Actually it's not only Belfast changing ,my family left for the states in 1958 I was 20  been here 48 years and this area has changed  drastically ,many more cultures have poured in as it is with Vancouver , we were up 2 years ago  and before that last time was  about  12 years ago and  we couldn't believe the changes on all the routes from the border into the city  like we were driving through Asia.  Belfast seems to be the last United Kingdom outpost where the Europeans , ect are pouring into. I see they even got a mosque there now, didn't take long . Small world  and everywhere's changing except don't see much immigration from Britain and Europe to Asia and the Middle East ,Africa and Latin America , wonder why , it's ok I know.
Stan Sloan.

giannineo

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Re: Exiles vs Residents
« Reply #14 on: September 11, 2006, 12:07:42 AM »
In Ballynafeigh you were a snob if you went to Inst.or one of the Malone Road direction schools.You were looked down on if you went to Park Parade.I went to Methody and hated it.There was a "them and us 'at Methody also IMHO.Forunately I was able to stay friends with many boyhood pals regardless of where they went or who they were.
        What a load of tosh to classify anyone because of school,religion,job or race.I have no idea what religion my neighbours are and couldn't care less.
      I left Belfast because of all the nonsense of people not liking each other because of which foot they kicked with -the sheer hypocrisy of so called Christians hating each other because of where they attended(or mostly didn't) on a Sunday.
           Some 25% of Norn Irn's youth left in the seventies.Most of my mates did and some have returned.I remember lots of good things about Belfast but still remember the needless bitterness.
            I don't have the bigotry in this part of Scotland,but miss the warmth of the Irish and the banter.
            I reckon that lots of Irish people do not see the scale of bitterness and the futility of the bigotry until they have left the country.
       I have missed nieces and nephews growing up,miss friends and family but do not miss the "what school did you go to bit".
          Many good memories, but enough bad to stop me returning.Had a notion a while ago to retire back 'home' but the divisions in Norn Irn society will probably see me stay this side of the pond.
            The saying that the Irish are friendly to everyone but themselves sums up the problem for me.