Burns family, short strand 1900 to 1940

[roedamar]

hi all

looking for some help to narrow our search.

anyone know anything about this Burns family

emerald ancestors -
marriage William Burns to Maria McGrath 5 July 1873, Belfast Roman Cath. Church. Belfast Urban 11 Co. Down

1900 street directory

at 35 Short Strand William Burns Boilermaker (also a P Burns @ no 55 a boilermaker - might be a connection)

1911 Census - 35 in Short Strand
Maria, head of house, widow, 12 births, 8 living
Patrick 24, Annie 22 and Hugh 19 living at home with

William (Jr) 27 years old (also a boilermaker) married to Annie Masterson 23 years old, married for 2 years with their son James age 1

27 June 1915 William and Annie at 93 Short Strand when Kathleen Burns born

* we have 2 possible Kathleen's born 1 month apart within 2 miles of each other.
the above are the details on one of them.

our Kathleen went on to have a son Charles Burns 15th May 1938 in the Jubilee Mat. Hosp while resident at 9a St Georges Street and in the mill as a smoother and a son George Burns 25th Nov 1940 also born Jubilee Mat Hosp while resident at 50 Upr Library Street and a housemaid. she was a single mum.

Kathleen passes away 10th July 1942 age 27 either as a result of childbirth or TB. cause of death still to be confirmed.

can anyone connect these facts or confirm that our Kathleen is deff not this Kathleen.
any help much appreciated as always.

Roedamar

[teap]

hi Roe

 Some of the Children born to William Burns and Maria McGrath on ancestry ireland

 BURNS MICHAEL 1876
 BURNS DANIEL 1877
 BURNS ANNE 1879
 BURNS MARY CATHERINE 1881
 BURNS JOHN J 1885
 BURNS PATRICK 1887
 BURNS DENIS 1890
 BURNS HUGH 1892
 BURNS MARGARET 1894

colette

[roedamar]

thank you Teap

we are trying to connect the dots.

Kathleen's death cert arrived today and she passes from phthisis (TB)

she is listed as Catherine on her death cert and she was still resident at 50 Upr Library Street in 1942 at the time of her passing.

hoping we can get her family but making slow steps, this seems to be the only family that fit the bill but not 100% sure yet.

many thanks
roedamar

[pat0000]

Hi, I was wondering if you got any more info on Kate Burns.
I'm not sure if it's Catherine, or Kathleen.
My Great grandmother was called Kate Burns, I think from Teconnaught, she was   a teacher and married my great grandfather, Cornelius Fox.
Hope you can help.
Cheers,
Pat

[valkerr]

Hi, I was wondering if you got any more info on Kate Burns.
I'm not sure if it's Catherine, or Kathleen.
My Great grandmother was called Kate Burns, I think from Teconnaught, she was   a teacher and married my great grandfather, Cornelius Fox.
Hope you can help.
Cheers,
Pat

The only matching Fox records I found on emeraldancestors.com.

Civil Marriage
Date of Marriage   8 Oct 1871
Groom Name   Cornelious FOX
Bride Name   Ellen GILMORE
Church   Belfast Roman Catholic Church
Parish   Belfast Urban 6
Civil District   Belfast
County   Antrim

Civil Marriage
Date of Marriage   25 Jul 1904
Groom Name   Cornelius FOX
Bride Name   Mary MULHERON
Church   Belfast Roman Catholic Church
Parish   Belfast Urban 12
Civil District   Belfast
County   Down

His father was also a Cornelius (from ancestryireland.com)
Surname   Firstname   Year   Fathers Firstnamecounty
FOX   CORNELIUS   1904   CORNELIUS   Antrim

The only matching Burns record I found on emeraldancestors.com.

Civil Marriage
Date of Marriage   27 Jun 1906
Groom Name   Neal FOX
Bride Name   Catherine BURNS
Church   Belfast Roman Catholic Church
Parish   Belfast Urban 1
Civil District   Belfast
County   Antrim

His father was also a Neal (from ancestryireland.com)
Surname   FirstnameYear   Fathers Firstnamecounty
FOX   NEAL   1906   NEAL   Antrim

This could be the fathers marriage.

Civil Marriage
Date of Marriage   23 Jan 1872
Groom Name   Neal FOX
Bride Name   Margaret MCCURLY
Church   Belfast Roman Catholic Church
Parish   Belfast Urban 2
Civil District   Belfast
County   Antrim

[valkerr]

Pat0000, a little more info.

Her father is Patrick (from ancestryireland.com)

Surname   FirstnameYear   Fathers Firstnamecounty
BURNS   CATHERINE   1906   PATRICK   Antrim

Civil Birth
Date of Birth   13 Sep 1868
Name   Catherine BURNS
Gender   F
Fathers Name   Patrick BURNS
Mothers Forenames   Eliza
Mothers Maiden Name   MCGUIGGAN
Civil District   Belfast
Sub District   Belfast No 6
County   Antrim

[pat0000]

 
Hi Valkeer.
We have discovered this is the one-=The only matching Burns record I found on emeraldancestors.com.
My great grandfather married as below 27/6/06 and his father 23/1/1872.
What is meant by civil marriage. I can't get any further back.
Thanks for your help.
Pat

Civil Marriage
Date of Marriage   27 Jun 1906
Groom Name   Neal FOX
Bride Name   Catherine BURNS
Church   Belfast Roman Catholic Church
Parish   Belfast Urban 1
Civil District   Belfast
County   Antrim

His father was also a Neal (from ancestryireland.com)
Surname   FirstnameYear   Fathers Firstnamecounty
FOX   NEAL   1906   NEAL   Antrim

This could be the fathers marriage.

Civil Marriage
Date of Marriage   23 Jan 1872
Groom Name   Neal FOX
Bride Name   Margaret MCCURLY
Church   Belfast Roman Catholic Church
Parish   Belfast Urban 2
Civil District   Belfast
County   Antrim
 
 

The only matching Fox records I found on emeraldancestors.com.

Civil Marriage
Date of Marriage   8 Oct 1871
Groom Name   Cornelious FOX
Bride Name   Ellen GILMORE
Church   Belfast Roman Catholic Church
Parish   Belfast Urban 6
Civil District   Belfast
County   Antrim

Civil Marriage
Date of Marriage   25 Jul 1904
Groom Name   Cornelius FOX
Bride Name   Mary MULHERON
Church   Belfast Roman Catholic Church
Parish   Belfast Urban 12
Civil District   Belfast
County   Down

His father was also a Cornelius (from ancestryireland.com)
Surname   Firstname   Year   Fathers Firstnamecounty
FOX   CORNELIUS   1904   CORNELIUS   Antrim

The only matching Burns record I found on emeraldancestors.com.

Civil Marriage
Date of Marriage   27 Jun 1906
Groom Name   Neal FOX
Bride Name   Catherine BURNS
Church   Belfast Roman Catholic Church
Parish   Belfast Urban 1
Civil District   Belfast
County   Antrim

His father was also a Neal (from ancestryireland.com)
Surname   FirstnameYear   Fathers Firstnamecounty
FOX   NEAL   1906   NEAL   Antrim

This could be the fathers marriage.

Civil Marriage
Date of Marriage   23 Jan 1872
Groom Name   Neal FOX
Bride Name   Margaret MCCURLY
Church   Belfast Roman Catholic Church
Parish   Belfast Urban 2
Civil District   Belfast
County   Antrim

[valkerr]

"Civil marriage is marriage performed by a government official and not a religious organisation."

Surname   FirstnameYear   Fathers Firstnamecounty
FOX   NEAL   1872   JOHN   Antrim
MCCURLY   MARGARET1872   DANIEL   Antrim

There's are 2 births for Neal Fox with father John in 1848 on ancestryireland.com, it's possible it's the same record recorded twice.
FOX   NEAL   1848   JOHN   Antrim
FOX   NEAL   1848   JOHN   Antrim
Unfortunately the way their subscription system works, you have to pay to view each record (even if it's not the correct one) to find more details.

Were they at 19 Barrack Street in 1901? If so, then 1848 would be correct for Neal and Margaret, and Margaret was from Tyrone.

Normally records don't go back pre 1864, so I can't find John Fox and Daniel McCurly marriages, but at least you're a little further along.

[valkerr]

Neil, Neal, and Cornelius seem to be interchangable.

Census Years1901AntrimSmithfieldBarrack StreetResidents of a house
Residents of a house 19 in Barrack Street (Smithfield, Antrim)
Show all information
Surname   Forename   Age   Sex   Relation to head   Religion
Fox   Susan   25   Female   Daughter   Roman Catholic
Fox   Catherine10   Female   Daughter   Roman Catholic
Fox   Mary   23   Female   Daughter   Roman Catholic
Fox   Margaret21   Female   Daughter   Roman Catholic
Fox   Neil   50   Male   Head of Family   Roman Catholic
Fox   Daniel   19   Male   Son   Roman Catholic
Fox   Neil   17   Male   Son   Roman Catholic
Fox   Margaret50   Female   Wife   Roman Catholic

Census Years1911AntrimSmithfieldBarrack StreetResidents of a house
Residents of a house 19 in Barrack Street (Smithfield, Antrim)
Show all information
Surname   Forename   Age   Sex   Relation to head   Religion
Fox   Cornelius   27   Male   Head of Family   Roman Catholic
Fox   Catherine   30   Female   Wife   Roman Catholic
Fox   Margaret   4   Female   DaughterRoman Catholic
Fox   Catherine   3   Female   DaughterRoman Catholic
Fox   Cornelius   1   Male   Son   Roman Catholic
Fox   Daniel P      Male   Son   Roman Catholic

Civil Birth
Date of Birth    7 Jun 1874
Name   Susannah FOX
Gender   F
Fathers Name   Neal FOX
Mothers Forenames   Margaret
Mothers Maiden Name   CREELEY
Civil District   Belfast
Sub District   Belfast No 6
County   Antrim

Creeley might be mistaken for McCurly or vice versa?

Civil Marriage
Date of Marriage   29 Nov 1902
Groom Name   Patrick FLINN
Bride Name   Susan FOX
Church   Belfast Roman Catholic Church
Parish   Belfast Urban 6
Civil District   Belfast
County   Antrim

[pat0000]

Hi Valkerr.
Civil Marriage
Date of Marriage   27 Jun 1906
Groom Name   Neal FOX
Bride Name   Catherine BURNS
Church   Belfast Roman Catholic Church
Parish   Belfast Urban 1
Civil District   Belfast
County   Antrim

His father was also a Neal (from ancestryireland.com)
Surname   FirstnameYear   Fathers Firstnamecounty
FOX   NEAL   1906   NEAL   Antrim

This could be the fathers marriage.

Civil Marriage
Date of Marriage   23 Jan 1872
Groom Name   Neal FOX
Bride Name   Margaret MCCURLY
Church   Belfast Roman Catholic Church
Parish   Belfast Urban 2
Civil District   Belfast
County   Antrim
 
Yes, thats them.
They lived in Barrack st.
So, if  Im right, Catherine, my great granmothers mother was Catherine Mcmullan from Tyrone married Patrick Burns from Co. Caven. Was her mother called Margaret. How can I find out more
 

"Civil marriage is marriage performed by a government official and not a religious organisation."

Surname   FirstnameYear   Fathers Firstnamecounty
FOX   NEAL   1872   JOHN   Antrim
MCCURLY   MARGARET1872   DANIEL   Antrim

There's are 2 births for Neal Fox with father John in 1848 on ancestryireland.com, it's possible it's the same record recorded twice.
FOX   NEAL   1848   JOHN   Antrim
FOX   NEAL   1848   JOHN   Antrim
Unfortunately the way their subscription system works, you have to pay to view each record (even if it's not the correct one) to find more details.

Were they at 19 Barrack Street in 1901? If so, then 1848 would be correct for Neal and Margaret, and Margaret was from Tyrone.

Normally records don't go back pre 1864, so I can't find John Fox and Daniel McCurly marriages, but at least you're a little further along.

[maura]

Related thread
http://www.belfastforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,45466.0.html

[e.rainey]

I'll ask My Dad if he recalls any Burns Family.He was born in Short Strand.All the Family lived around there and surrounding streets and some still do.

[pat0000]

Thanks.
what does e. stand for? e rainey, little formal.
Hope you don't mind me asking, and appreciate any help.
Hope to hear from you soon.
Cheers,
Pat
 

I'll ask My Dad if he recalls any Burns Family.He was born in Short Strand.All the Family lived around there and surrounding streets and some still do.

[belfast mom]

hi im doing a bit of family research and have found out my grandmothers sister married an arthur burns from short strand,they emigrated to boston in 1922 and had 1 daughter catherine dont know if there is any connection.

[Bmckee]

Hope this is still being read but.... My great grandfather was Patrick Burns, a boilermaker who lived at 55 short strand in 1911 with his wife Sarah (nee McStravick) and 10 children.  One of his sons born in 1902 was Willie.  Perhaps Patrick was the brother of the William you are related to.  I know that Patrick and his family had moved from Ballarat street after being burnt out in an anti catholic pogrom of that year.  I cant find any civil records for him after 1911 and think he may have relocated to Scotland.  You should know that out of a workforce of 10000, only 500 Catholics - mainly unskilled labourers - found work at Harland and Wolff.  A Catholic Boilermaker was a rarity at that time.