Author Topic: KINCORA  (Read 23278 times)

widz

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Re: KINCORA
« Reply #30 on: December 01, 2009, 07:56:50 PM »
Yes it was indeed!
Widz

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Seaviewite

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Re: KINCORA
« Reply #31 on: December 02, 2009, 01:47:43 AM »
Wasnt there a scandal way back in the 60's in canada(i think it was) when Big Ian was accused of having unlawful sex with a minor (girl) and him a married man at time :smile:  I remember seeing the newspaper cuttings in the 70's...But he got out of that one by bribing the victims family just like Michael Jackson did :(  Then paid for a doctorate what a joke!

Completely erroneous. If you are going to make serious accusations on a forum such as this you need to get the facts right.
When at Thy call my weary feet I turn
The gates of paradise are opened wide
At Goodison I know a man can learn
Rapture more rich than Anfield can pr

twocoats

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Re: KINCORA
« Reply #32 on: December 02, 2009, 02:32:36 AM »

Completely erroneous. If you are going to make serious accusations on a forum such as this you need to get the facts right.

You are right about that seaviewite.
 
In 1951 he acquired local notoriety by adopting the cause of Maura Lyons, a 15-year-old Catholic girl who left her home to join his church.
 
He may have been a lot of things but he certainly was not a rapist (Unlawful sex)...
 
It did not happen in Canada. It happened in Belfast. .
 
Take care
 
TC
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pussy-galore

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Re: KINCORA
« Reply #33 on: December 02, 2009, 06:13:59 AM »
"Pretty Maura Lyons was 15 years old and a member of Northern Ireland's Roman Catholic minority (34.2%) when she went to work a year ago as a stitcher in a Belfast garment factory. There she met several members of a splinter sect known as the Free Presbyterian Church, and soon she became a Protestant. Her father, a shipyard worker, and her mother were horrified; so was the parish priest. There were family conferences, prayers and tears. Then Maura Lyons disappeared.

Abduction! cried her family and their Catholic friends, and they accused the Rev. David Leathern, who had converted Maura, of spiriting her away. Free Presbyterian Leathern denied any knowledge of the girl's whereabouts, and so did Alan Paisley, moderator of the church. But Paisley eventually produced what he said was a tape recording of Maura's voice, and played it to an audience consisting of all of Belfast's 1,000 Free Presbyterians, Maura's family and the police. "My Roman Catholic religion had been fear and dread," said the voice. "The new religion to which I was introduced was simple and free from fear." Three priests had been called in, and she was about to be carted off to a convent. "I took the opportunity to escape while the priests were having a cup of tea . . . I am in God's hands.''
But that was not Maura's voice at all, said her father, and the Catholic accusations and Free Presbyterian counteraccusations went on and on in Belfast, The controversy bounded across the Irish Sea when Reporter Norman Lucas of London's News Chronicle (circ. 1,252,778) wrote a story of a "secret rendezvous" he had had with Maura in northwest England, "to which I had been driven in a closed car—blindfolded for the last 20 minutes . . ." She had been flown to England and smuggled in and out of about 25 houses in 18 weeks, wrote Reporter Lucas, constantly changing her hair style and clothes. Maura told him that she would stay in "this Protestant underground" until May, when she would become 16 and in British law no longer a minor.
"There is an underground method of dealing with this girl which rivals those operating in occupied countries during the war," said Republican Labor M.P. Harry Diamond, a Catholic, in Northern Ireland's House of Commons. "There have been evasion, lies, attempted blackmail and an obvious conspiracy." While police of the United Kingdom searched for her, a Protestant leader said: "There is no official underground to hide girls like her, but because so many people believe in freedom of worship there are many families who would be willing to hide her."

*Obviously "Alan Paisley" is Ian Paisley ( :scratch_ones_head: :unsure: )

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,809217,00.html

Read more: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,809217,00.html#ixzz0YVbWhbLT

"The case of Maura Lyons, 16, the Roman Catholic girl who disappeared from her Belfast home after becoming a Presbyterian (TIME, March 18), was closed by a court order that she be returned to her Catholic parents—but on the condition that they do nothing to shake her new Protestant faith. After her conversion last fall, her parents had threatened to put Maura in a convent, whereupon she was smuggled out of Belfast and into England. There a kind of Protestant underground railroad shifted her from hideout to hideout until, two weeks ago. she turned up at the Belfast home of a Presbyterian pastor. He turned her over to the police, who took her to a welfare home to await a hearing. Lord John Clarke MacDermott, Northern Ireland's Lord Chief Justice, declaring her a ward of the court, ordered that she attend only regular Presbyterian Church services, address no public meetings. As for her Catholic parents, they would have to accept their Protestant daughter in what MacDermott called his "experiment in toleration."

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,824961,00.html

Read more: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,824961,00.html#ixzz0YVdEYvLJ

From what i understand; the above occurred in 1956.

pussy-galore

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Re: KINCORA
« Reply #34 on: December 02, 2009, 06:29:41 AM »
Now, to get back to the topic ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kincora_Boys'_Home

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kincora_boy%27s_home


item mark James Prior, then Secretary of State for Northern Ireland, announced the setting up of a Committee of Inquiry into the sexual abuse of children who lived in the Kincora Boys Home in Belfast. [The Kincora Scandal first broke on 3 April 1980 when three staff members of the Kincora Boys Home, Belfast, were charged with acts of gross indecency. Allegations continued to be made that elements of the security service, civil servants and a number of Loyalists had been involved in the abuse of young boys at Kincora. One of those sentenced was William McGrath who was the leader of a Loyalist paramilitary group called Tara.]"[/size]


http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/othelem/chron/ch82.htm




Seaviewite

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Re: KINCORA
« Reply #35 on: December 02, 2009, 11:42:49 AM »
Thank you Pussy Galore and Twocoats for puting forward the truth about this matter. I think it is very dissapointing that a poster, widz, can put forward tales which are so far wide of the mark. Where do they get these stories from.  :scratch_ones_head:
When at Thy call my weary feet I turn
The gates of paradise are opened wide
At Goodison I know a man can learn
Rapture more rich than Anfield can pr

widz

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Re: KINCORA
« Reply #36 on: December 03, 2009, 12:44:22 PM »

Completely erroneous. If you are going to make serious accusations on a forum such as this you need to get the facts right.

 
This poster Widz does not lie! And i get the stories SAME place you do ....in the  paper! Duh!
 
The fact is i read in a newspaper many years ago, im NOT talking about the story of the falls road girl as i have said numeous times but you have chosen to ignore that info  for reasons of your own, but of the girl in Canada! After ringing up my much older sisters they are in their 60's they confirmed the story was in the paper but they too cant exactly remember what country but they too thought it was Canada....
 
 
I never said it was true i SAID i READ it just the same place you all get your news
 
 So pull the aul horns in!
Widz

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twocoats

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Re: KINCORA
« Reply #37 on: December 03, 2009, 04:21:52 PM »
Perhaps this is the information you are referring to....TC
 
As from 2005, the church in North America has been independent of the Ulster Presbytery, having its own Moderator. Dr. Frank McClelland was the first Moderator, and he was succeeded in 2006 by Rev. David Mook (Minister in Phoenix, Arizona). The two Presbyteries are in full communion with each other and the inaugural Free Presbyterian International Congress was held 19–23 June 2006 in Martyrs Memorial Free Presbyterian Church in Belfast. This event saw Free Presbyterians from all over the world gather in Northern Ireland for a week of meetings. The intention is to hold the Congress biennially, alternating between Ulster and the United States. A Congress is planned for 2008 in Greenville, South Carolina.
 
In 2006 a production team from BBC Northern Ireland conducted an investigation into a child abuse scandal in Toronto Free Presbyterian Church. The resulting documentary, screened in June, asserted that the church had denounced a young woman for adultery, although she was 13 years old at the time of the first incident, whereas the male participant was 22 and married. Officers from the church appeared on the BBC programme arguing that the young girl was guilty of adultery and seduction. (BBC Northern Ireland 'Spotlight' 13 June 2006)
James Doherty, a layman in the Free Presbyterian Church, was accused of raping and molesting two sisters over a period of eleven years. The court evidence included claims that Ian Paisley and other church officers knew of the accusations but ultimately took no action against Doherty.[8]
 
See full link here
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Presbyterian_Church_of_Ulster
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deke

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Re: KINCORA
« Reply #38 on: December 03, 2009, 05:34:25 PM »
TC  Wikipedia is not exactly the best source if you are looking for facts.
I used to be indecisive.   Now I'm not so sure.

twocoats

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Re: KINCORA
« Reply #39 on: December 03, 2009, 06:01:51 PM »
TC  Wikipedia is not exactly the best source if you are looking for facts.

I agree with you Deke.
 
My first post about the young girl was just to get the name. Maura Lyons. I remembered the incident but couldn't remember the name.
 
The post about TFPC was to refresh Widz's memory. Any further searching needs to be done by her.
 
Take care
 
TC
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stickyra

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Re: KINCORA
« Reply #40 on: December 03, 2009, 06:16:30 PM »
What have Catholic Priests and prominent loyalists got in common? 'Nothing', I hear you say.        .. ;)
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the buckcat

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Re: KINCORA
« Reply #41 on: December 03, 2009, 08:51:00 PM »
I didn't think I would have started this controversy when I submitted the original post. I think one thing we have all learned is that the Catholic Church doesn't have a monopoly over child abuse. I think we need to remember that as over 90% of the Republic are Catholic the majority of cases are going to reflect on the church down there. However, if similar enquirys were held up here surely all institutions Catholic and Protestant should be brought under scrutiny as we have a majority of Protestants up here for the last 80 years.

twocoats

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Re: KINCORA
« Reply #42 on: December 03, 2009, 09:23:15 PM »
I didn't think I would have started this controversy when I submitted the original post. I think one thing we have all learned is that the Catholic Church doesn't have a monopoly over child abuse. I think we need to remember that as over 90% of the Republic are Catholic the majority of cases are going to reflect on the church down there. However, if similar enquirys were held up here surely all institutions Catholic and Protestant should be brought under scrutiny as we have a majority of Protestants up here for the last 80 years.

Buckcat I think you started a good thread. .Not too much controversy at all compared to some others.
 
What I knew before I added my 2 cents worth was that Pedophilia, and sexual abuse know no particular religion.
 
People of ALL religions can be as guilty as the next.
 
There is no excuse for tit for tat posting.
 
Take care...TC
 
 
 
 
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stickyra

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Re: KINCORA
« Reply #43 on: December 04, 2009, 09:35:13 AM »
Yes paedophiles come in all creeds, classes, colours and professions. They find their way into suitable employment; Priests, scout leaders, boxing coaches, doctors (major one which doesn't get the exposure it should for some reason).
The North has had more scandals involving non catholic institutions than just Kincora. Williamson House was another.
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the buckcat

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Re: KINCORA
« Reply #44 on: December 04, 2009, 12:57:39 PM »
Hi Stickya,
I agree with you, they come in all classes and creeds. BUT, let me make a point here.... there are good Catholic priests out there and good protestant clergy....  genuine people that anyone could trust their lives on   we should not denigrate all of these people because of the sick [censored] that  took advantage of their positions in a society which was ignored in the past but thankfully has now come to light. I do not profess any Christian faith but the great philosopher Jesus Christ did give us a role model.

Thanks to everyone who commented on this thread.  keep it coming.