Author Topic: Could "Crumbling" be "Crumlin"?  (Read 3884 times)

TrickyPaul

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Could "Crumbling" be "Crumlin"?
« on: January 11, 2010, 09:22:10 PM »
I am trying to find where my maternal great grandparents were born. Below is a scan of the 1911 English Census that shows them being born in Ireland Crumbling.
 

 
Literacy wasn't a big thing in our family back then (it isn't now either, really) so does anyone know where he might have been referring to? We were told he came from Dungannon!
 
Their names were John Magee (or McGee) and Martha Jane Irving (or Irvine), and they were both born around 1853.
 
Thanks in advance.
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Rosemary Joan

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Re: Could "Crumbling" be "Crumlin"?
« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2010, 11:29:58 AM »
The only Crumlin I can find is in Co. Antrim.
Have you got their marriage details??
RosemaryJoan
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Erincyprus

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Re: Could "Crumbling" be "Crumlin"?
« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2010, 07:08:11 PM »
Crumlin is a Village quite close to Belfast International Airport and is Co. Antrim my sister lives there.  If you find the name of the Church or Chapel they were married in might help you out.  You can them pm me and I will ask my sister to check it out for you.
 
 
Erin     
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jp08

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Re: Could "Crumbling" be "Crumlin"?
« Reply #3 on: January 20, 2010, 10:10:09 AM »
I am trying to find where my maternal great grandparents were born. Below is a scan of the 1911 English Census that shows them being born in Ireland Crumbling.

Maybe it was just a reflection of the state of the country at the time ?  ;)

But seriously, Crumlin is a place name found in many parts of these islands. It is not at all common but it certainly has been written as 'Crumbling' on census forms.

As a topographic name there have probably been quite a few Crumlins in Ireland (there is one still in Dublin) but I would say that yours is the one in Co. Antrim if only because of the likely intersection between the surnames McGee and Irvine.

As they both came from there, there is a good chance they married there too and so their statutory marriage records, if you can find them, may be a good clue. Also try birth certs for younger siblings on either side born post-1865.


Rosemary Joan

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Re: Could "Crumbling" be "Crumlin"?
« Reply #4 on: January 20, 2010, 01:17:06 PM »
I have found Martha and John on the 1911 census in Bolton, but not in the 1901 census.  Have you found them in Bolton in 1901?  Do you think they were still in Ireland in 1901?
Do you think they married in Ireland or England?
RosemaryJoan
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TrickyPaul

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Re: Could "Crumbling" be "Crumlin"?
« Reply #5 on: January 20, 2010, 08:04:06 PM »
John and Martha married in Bolton on 7th January 1873. His father was given as John Magee a carter (deceased) and her father as Robert Irving a boot and shoe maker (deceased). From 1873 onwards they remained in the Bolton area, and both died there.
Martha and John went undercover on the 1901 England Census, spelling their surname McGee!
One of their children, Robert McGee born 16th June 1876, moved to Ireland (Belfast) and married a Belfast girl (Ellen Davey, b. 1877) there 27th November 1899. They then set about the task of re-populating Ireland, and were very successful at it. Although they appear on the 1901 Census as being in England, it could only have been a short visit as all their children were Belfast born from 1902 onwards.
Do the people of Glocca Morra wonder how things are here?

Rosemary Joan

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Re: Could "Crumbling" be "Crumlin"?
« Reply #6 on: January 21, 2010, 04:08:00 PM »
I have had a good look for the fathers mentioned on the marriage.  There are loads of John Magees, but not so many Robert Irinve,Irving,Erving.  Here is an interesting marriage
Robert Ervine, father John married Mary Ann Innis ,father John  in 1850,  This cross references in Emerald Ancestors, who would have the name of the church, but I don't have a subscription just now.  Perhaps SKS will do the needful.
The marriage is also on
www.ancestryireland.com
and cross references again.
On this site, you will have an address for groom and bride, fathers names and occupations and if it is the right one, it will start you on your road of discovery.  It will cost 4 for this.
 
RosemaryJoan
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OTTO

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Re: Could "Crumbling" be "Crumlin"?
« Reply #7 on: January 21, 2010, 06:18:38 PM »
19th Jan 1850 , Robert Ervine married Mary Ann Innis at Lisburn Civil  Registrars Office.
 
OTTO

Rosemary Joan

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Re: Could "Crumbling" be "Crumlin"?
« Reply #8 on: January 21, 2010, 07:45:19 PM »
I knew we could rely on you OTTO.  Thanks. 
I still think we need the addresses given on the actual marriage record.
RosemaryJoan
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Rosemary Joan

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Re: Could "Crumbling" be "Crumlin"?
« Reply #9 on: January 22, 2010, 10:23:50 AM »
Having established that Crumlin is in the Parish of Killead,Co.Antrim, I have come across these entries in Griffiths Valuation.  Disregard the spelling of the surnames:
Irwin,Robert,  Crosshill (Townland), Killead
McGee, John, Carnaghliss (Townland) Killead
These townlands are about 5 miles apart,Crosshill being on the outskirts of Crumlin.
Here is a birth from LDS:
 
 
Robert Irvine Male  
Event(s):Birth:
17 SEP 1831  Aughnamillan, Killead, Antrim, Ireland
Christening: Death: Burial:
Parents: Father: John Irvine Mother: Sally Sutherland
 
 
 
Aughnamillan is between Crosshill and Carnaghliss.
 
 
Do you think we are getting there??
 
RosemaryJoan
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Rosemary Joan

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Re: Could "Crumbling" be "Crumlin"?
« Reply #10 on: January 22, 2010, 10:38:25 AM »
Here are some more children for John Irvine and Sally Sutherland:
 
Antrim, Ireland, British Isles
Father: John Irvine, Mother: Sally Sutherland
 
International Genealogical Index / British Isles - 4 Select records to download - (50 maximum)
1. Nancy Betty Irvine - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 19 AUG 1836 Aughnamillan, Killead, Antrim, Ireland
2. Robert Irvine - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 17 SEP 1831 Aughnamillan, Killead, Antrim, Ireland
3. William John Irvine - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 04 DEC 1833 Aughnamillan, Killead, Antrim, Ireland
RosemaryJoan
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Rosemary Joan

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Re: Could "Crumbling" be "Crumlin"?
« Reply #11 on: January 22, 2010, 10:44:08 AM »
This might be John's birth??
 
 
10. Elizabeth Magee - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 1844 Carnaghliss, Killead, Antrim, Ireland
11. William Magee - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 1847 Carnaghliss, Killead, Antrim, Ireland
12. John Magee - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 1849 Carnaghliss, Killead, Antrim, Ireland
13. Sarah Jane Magee - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 1850 Carnaghliss, Killead, Antrim, Ireland
I'll stop there for a while!
RosemaryJoan
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Rosemary Joan

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Re: Could "Crumbling" be "Crumlin"?
« Reply #12 on: January 22, 2010, 11:10:03 AM »
Look what I stumbled across!!
 
1851 census fragment, Killead Parish
 
38 Carnaghliss Townland, Killead County Antrim (1851)
John Magee, Head, M, 35, Cartman, County Antrim,
Elizabeth Magee, Wife, M, 30, Spinster, County Antrim,
Elizabeth Magee, Daughter, U, 7, None, County Antrim,
William Magee, Son, U, 4, None, County Antrim,
John Magee, Son, U, 2, None, County Antrim,
Sarah Jane Magee, Daughter, U, 6m, None, County Antrim,
Rose Mulgrew, Lodger, U, 60, Peddler, County Tyrone,

 
RosemaryJoan
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jp08

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Re: Could "Crumbling" be "Crumlin"?
« Reply #13 on: January 22, 2010, 11:33:37 AM »
Look what I stumbled across!!

That's where the IGI information you've already quoted comes from.

Otherwise, that John Magee looks circumstantially good.


Rosemary Joan

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Re: Could "Crumbling" be "Crumlin"?
« Reply #14 on: January 22, 2010, 01:34:00 PM »
marriage of  John Irvine and Sally Sutherland:
 
Sally Sutherland Female
Event(s):Birth:
About 1810 
Christening: Death: Burial:
Marriages: Spouse: John Irvine Marriage:
About 1830  Aughnamillan, Killead, Antrim, Ireland
As ye sow, so shall ye reap