Author Topic: trying to locate grandfather world war 11  (Read 2662 times)

kat1

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trying to locate grandfather world war 11
« on: April 08, 2007, 05:54:23 PM »
I am trying to locate information of my grandfather.
Robert Samuel Crozier.  Served in  the Royal engineers, possibly 3rd company.
Was killed in Italy in 1944, and buried in Anzio.

He originated from Caledon, co tyrone and there was a newspaper article published about himself and his three brothers who all left for war.
there names were
William fred crozier
robert samuel crozier
alexander crozier
john crozier.
My grandfather received medals six I believe in total, I am aware of  the Italy star, the africa star,
defence medal and military medal 1939-1945.

any info or how to obtain info would be appreciated.

thanks Kat

acheux_rifleman

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Re: trying to locate grandfather world war 11
« Reply #1 on: April 08, 2007, 09:35:58 PM »
Hi there Kat.

I see that your Grandfather was Gazetted for the award of the Military Medal for 'gallant and distinguished service in Italy'. He appears in the London Gazette on the 4th April 1944 as "No. 1877596 Lance-Sergeant Robert Samuel Crozier, Corps of Royal Engineers. (Caledon, Co. Tyrone)."

http://www.gazettes-online.co.uk/archiveViewFrameSetup.asp?webtype=0&IssueNumber=36456&pageNumber=1&SearchFor=crozier&PageDuplicate=n&selMedalType=&selHonourType

http://www.gazettes-online.co.uk/archiveViewFrameSetup.asp?webType=0&PageDuplicate=n%20%20%20%20%20%20%20&issueNumber=36456&pageNumber=0&SearchFor=crozier&selMedalType=&selHonourType

He is recorded as having served with 252 Field Company, Royal Engineers. This Company fought with the 5th Infantry Division and played a key role during the largest ever amphibious landing - Operation Husky. This was the Allied invasion of Sicily and key in ending the war. The Allies intended to use Sicily as a staging post for the subsequent invasion of Italy. This would mean the German forces would have to fight this front and would draw men away from the fight with Russia, and more importantly, from Normandy.

He was killed in action on the 24th April 1944, during the Anzio offensive, and his remains were laid to rest at the Anzio Beach Head Cemetery, in plot I, row H, grave number 3. He is recorded as the son of Robert John and Jeannie Crozier and as the husband of Mary Ellen Crozier of Caledon, Co. Tyrone. He was 26 years of age when he died.

http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=2372775

I have also attached this link showing where Robert is interred. You may find it of some comfort.

http://www.fullposter.com/blog.php?id=1&topic=29

You should also be able to send off to the Army Records Office for his service record and details of the award. The Royal Engineers museum should also hold a copy of his citation and the War Diary which may give circumstances of your Grandfathers death.

I hope you find this information on this brave man interesting.

I will see what else I can find out for you.

Lest We Forget....

Acheux.

We are the Pilgrims, master; we shall go
Always a little further - it may be
Beyond the last blue mountain barred with snow,
Across that angry or t

kat1

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Re: trying to locate grandfather world war 11
« Reply #2 on: April 09, 2007, 01:38:45 AM »
rifleman,
I can not begin to thank you for the information on my grandfather.  I have shared with my father tonight and the rest of my family.  We are indebted to you.
My father is going to anzio in the fall of this year to visit his fathers grave with the british legion here in canada.

Again, thank you so much for making our easter sunday a very special one.   My father is overwhelmed, and wishes me to pass on his appreciation for your efforts.  I can now share this information with my sons about their great grandfather!

thank you so much!

kat

twocoats

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Re: trying to locate grandfather world war 11
« Reply #3 on: April 09, 2007, 01:59:58 AM »
Hi there Kat.

I see that your Grandfather was Gazetted for the award of the Military Medal for 'gallant and distinguished service in Italy'. He appears in the London Gazette on the 4th April 1944 as "No. 1877596 Lance-Sergeant Robert Samuel Crozier, Corps of Royal Engineers. (Caledon, Co. Tyrone)."

http://www.gazettes-online.co.uk/archiveViewFrameSetup.asp?webtype=0&IssueNumber=36456&pageNumber=1&SearchFor=crozier&PageDuplicate=n&selMedalType=&selHonourType

http://www.gazettes-online.co.uk/archiveViewFrameSetup.asp?webType=0&PageDuplicate=n%20%20%20%20%20%20%20&issueNumber=36456&pageNumber=0&SearchFor=crozier&selMedalType=&selHonourType

He is recorded as having served with 252 Field Company, Royal Engineers. This Company fought with the 5th Infantry Division and played a key role during the largest ever amphibious landing - Operation Husky. This was the Allied invasion of Sicily and key in ending the war. The Allies intended to use Sicily as a staging post for the subsequent invasion of Italy. This would mean the German forces would have to fight this front and would draw men away from the fight with Russia, and more importantly, from Normandy.

He was killed in action on the 24th April 1944, during the Anzio offensive, and his remains were laid to rest at the Anzio Beach Head Cemetery, in plot I, row H, grave number 3. He is recorded as the son of Robert John and Jeannie Crozier and as the husband of Mary Ellen Crozier of Caledon, Co. Tyrone. He was 26 years of age when he died.

http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=2372775

I have also attached this link showing where Robert is interred. You may find it of some comfort.

http://www.fullposter.com/blog.php?id=1&topic=29

You should also be able to send off to the Army Records Office for his service record and details of the award. The Royal Engineers museum should also hold a copy of his citation and the War Diary which may give circumstances of your Grandfathers death.

I hope you find this information on this brave man interesting.

I will see what else I can find out for you.

Lest We Forget....

Acheux.


Rifle. You are one of the reasons that this Forum is the success that it is. I must thank you for the work that you did for my Grandfather as well. Keep up the great work both here and in your professional life     Coats
Homophobia, racism, sexism, bigotry and sectarianism is still alive..

MAgeeka

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Re: trying to locate grandfather world war 11
« Reply #4 on: April 09, 2007, 02:17:38 AM »
That is wonderful for you Kat and you Coates   Great work R Man

R Man if I send details on My grand  Dad would you please see what you can do
I believe he was in ,or with the Black Watch
It was a 20 year stint and ended at the end of WW1

What throws me is that on his wedding cert in 1898.  His address is Aldershot in Surrey
I do not think that the Black Watch were ever based there
Perhaps a corps that was attached,  I am thinking

acheux_rifleman

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Re: trying to locate grandfather world war 11
« Reply #5 on: April 09, 2007, 09:27:21 AM »
That is wonderful for you Kat and you Coates   Great work R Man

R Man if I send details on My grand  Dad would you please see what you can do
I believe he was in ,or with the Black Watch
It was a 20 year stint and ended at the end of WW1

What throws me is that on his wedding cert in 1898.  His address is Aldershot in Surrey
I do not think that the Black Watch were ever based there
Perhaps a corps that was attached,  I am thinking


Hi again MAgeeka and thanks for your comments.

I look forward to your PM - I'll see what I can establish for you.

It is more than likely that if he was with the Black Watch (the Royal Highlanders), that he served with the 2nd Battalion.

In 1897, that Battalion moved to York from Glasgow, where it had been previously garrisoned since it's return from Ireland in 1889 (both Belfast and Limerick). The 2nd Battalion was moved in preparation for embarkation to South Africa and served throughout the Boer War as part of 3rd Brigade.

The 1st Battalion on the other hand, hadn't served in Britain since 1881 - with postings to Egypt, Mauritius, Cape Colony (South Africa), Gibraltar, Malta, Subathu and Sipiatur in India. They were also deployed to serve in the Boer War, returning to Edinburgh then Fort George (Inverness), on cessation of hostilities.

If you wish to send me his details, I'll check what embarkation and medal rolls I have and see if I can get you any further information.

Best Wishes and my respect, as ever,

Acheux.

'Quis Separabit?'

We are the Pilgrims, master; we shall go
Always a little further - it may be
Beyond the last blue mountain barred with snow,
Across that angry or t

spikydu

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Re: trying to locate grandfather world war 11
« Reply #6 on: May 16, 2020, 07:18:27 PM »
Hi Kat1

I was doing some family tree research and came across your post regarding Robert Samuel Crozier .. Robert Samuel was married to my Great Aunt .. Mary Ellen nee Lucas .. just wondering what info you have on the family tree if any .. can you send messages on here , Iím not sure as only new .. thank you

JimG

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Re: trying to locate grandfather world war 11
« Reply #7 on: May 18, 2020, 02:24:40 PM »
Welcome spikydu,  acheux-riflemanís last post was on August 14, 2013 so I think its unlikly you will hear from him.  The topic was started by kat1.  More Sources found
from facebook 2018    The 4 Crozier Brothers from Caledon. are listed I think Andy Glenfield is contributor with photos
from https://www.ww2ni.com/countytyronepart1.htm use your search to search this very interesting website
while looking up Sergeant Robert Samuel death on CWGC I noticed an associated typescript page which listed the wordings that were on, or planned to be on the tombstone at the Anzio Beach Head Cemetery, in plot I, row H, grave number 3
 [ these additional words on his headstone}
Resting
Where no shadows fall.
Ever remembered by his wife and children
handwritten note on typescript HWE prepared   12/11/48 initials

which brings me to the thinking of a family tree that you are interested in
He is recorded as the son of Robert John and Jeannie Crozier and as the husband of Mary Ellen Crozier of Caledon, Co. Tyrone

to my surprise I had difficulty bordering on no proveable connection  for the parents  or the four sons, to Caledon.   Am I missing something obvious? examples
https://www.libraryireland.com/UlsterDirectory1910/Caledon.php no mention of Crozier.
then the 1901 and 1911 census, even griffiths valuation 1860 for Aghaloo so I reconsidered what Caledon might also mean:-
geographically Caledon is a townland in the civil parish of Aghaloo
The Caledon estate is much larger and spread elsewhere see Lord Belmont http://lordbelmontinnorthernireland.blogspot.com/2015/06/caledon-estate_21.html
where he describes The Earls Of Caledon Were Major Landowners In County Tyrone, With 29,236 Acres the estate included areas in Co Armagh and Co Monaghan
Church records exist at PRONI Belfast eg
AGHALOO, CO. TYRONE
C.I. Aghaloo or Caledon (Armagh diocese) Baptisms, 1791-5 and 1801-76; marriages, 1792-5 and 1800-45; burials, 1792-5 and 1800-1939; confirmation MIC583/25-6; MIC1/326 lists, 1840-72; vestry minutes, 1691-1807. D2602/1Baptisms, 1877-; marriages, 1845-.In local custody
C.I. Brantry (Armagh diocese) [Formed out of Aghaloo, Carnteel and Clonfeacle parishes]
Baptisms, 1844-71; burials, 1846-82; confirmation list,1873 MIC583/24
Baptisms, 1871-; marriages, 1845-; burials, 1883-;vestry minutes, 1844-.In local custody
M. Caledon Baptisms, 1815-. In local custody
P. Ballymagrane Baptisms, 1851-1985; marriages, 1845-1921. MIC1P/39
P. Caledon Baptisms, 1870-1950; marriages, 1848-1932. MIC1P/25
P. Minterburn Baptisms, 1829-1950; marriages, 1819-22 and 1830MIC1P/26; MIC1P/460 1911.
MIC1D/36

However  I searched in vain for the parents marriage about to give up and found on emeraldancestors  https://www.emeraldancestors.com/?gclid=COqlobLF5aoCFQEf4Qod3Ckq6g
a Robert John Crozier m 1917 Newry  Jennie Crozier
Newry could be the registration district area or the Church location
Jennie Jeannie is very close as as a record. so I turned back to the 1901 and1911 census to find him. I could only find one person that fitted. Fitting into a Co Armagh family.   To claim the family all being Caledon at the start of WW2 could be based on
1 It was on the Caledon estate
2. If the Crozier family moved to Caledon itself or Aghaloo civil parish area by 1939  to do building works that should be proveable from Street directories not online. Belfast reference library Royal Avenue or Linenhall Library Belfast might have copies. the online copy on Lennonwylie is for belfast only
3. The company Crozier engineers  may know it all i havent followed them up
nevertheless the tree below is speculative, if wrong I apologise in advance

A speculative draft family tree  temporary numbers   without military detail
1. Robert Crozier b~1854 Co Armagh Presbyterian occupation Mason 1901   1911 Brick Layer and Joiner m~1882 Susan Crozier nee XXXX b~1859 Co Armagh Presbyterian could be a  dau of John McCalden CofI
children   9 born   7 living in 1911 so I am missing one
1.1. Margaret Crozier b 1884 in1901 only
1.2. Annbella Crozier b ~1893
1.3. Sarah Crozier b~ 1889 Co Armagh Presbyterian   
1.4. Robert John Crozier b~1897   Co Armagh Presbyterian Occupation 1911 Apprentice to Father m 1917 Newry  Jennie Crozier as listed by https://www.emeraldancestors.com  More details of this marriage might stitch the tree firmly or otherwiseare needed if you havent already got them. eg go to GRONI and sign up for a credits you or may need to join emerald ancestor. about £10 for a month .  With luck that should prove his parents or parent.
 children in no known order except Alexander is youngest
....1.4.1. William Fred Crozier
....1.4.2. Robert Samuel Crozier d age 26 so b1918 insert military history  m Mary Ellen Lucas[ of Caledon
 .children mentioned on Anzio  tombstone
.1.4.2.1. one or more of unknown children
....1.4.3. John Crozier
....1.4.4. Alexander Crozier
1.5. Susan Jane Crozier b~1899 Co Armagh Presbyterian   
1.6. David Thomas Crozier b~1901 Co Armagh Presbyterian
Residences
1  Rathcarbry (Tullyhappy, Armagh) 1901
12 Rathcarbry (Tullyhappy, Armagh) 1911
2. David Crozier b~1863 Co Armagh Presbyterian a labourer in 1901
residence in 1901 1 in Rathcarbry (Tullyhappy, Armagh) single [ might have m1912 Margaret Jane XXXXX see emerald ancestors or in 1917 Margaret in Armagh]

A final suggestion is Northern Ireland's 1939 National Register
 https://www.irish-genealogy-toolkit.com/1939-national-register.html, which suggests the Freedom of Information requests are not being processed currently because of suspension of Stormont or Covid, which may be relaxed in the near future. its free once its back in use
I look forward to your reactions