Author Topic: Anyone from the shore road area of Belfast?.  (Read 2262977 times)

henrycluney

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Re: Anyone from the shore road area of Belfast?.
« Reply #13290 on: November 09, 2020, 09:36:29 PM »
Hee hee thanks :) Now how to live up to it?!
Mon Norn Iron!!

Dargan

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Re: Anyone from the shore road area of Belfast?.
« Reply #13291 on: November 09, 2020, 10:20:40 PM »
Am I really bandying words with THE Henry? Right now it would do my heart no end of good if I could only know for sure for I've been coughing three days and it's as if someone is pulling a rope tight round my middle, their foot in the small of my back. Is it just a scoundrel imposter on to wind us up? Someone out for larks because they're sick of the risk of getting a dose of covid up the stove pipe ? God, but the feelgood factor's coming back into the thread folks! It'll fair inspire me to be on again talking a right lot of guano. Good old Henry if it is you! But how can we really tell if it's truly Henry, here in a place like this where no credentials can be flashed?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WbhENRnZXsQ
Why did the chicken cross the road?
Because it wasn't the Shore Road.

henrycluney

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Re: Anyone from the shore road area of Belfast?.
« Reply #13292 on: November 10, 2020, 07:40:19 PM »
Am I really bandying words with THE Henry? Right now it would do my heart no end of good if I could only know for sure for I've been coughing three days and it's as if someone is pulling a rope tight round my middle, their foot in the small of my back. Is it just a scoundrel imposter on to wind us up? Someone out for larks because they're sick of the risk of getting a dose of covid up the stove pipe ? God, but the feelgood factor's coming back into the thread folks! It'll fair inspire me to be on again talking a right lot of guano. Good old Henry if it is you! But how can we really tell if it's truly Henry, here in a place like this where no credentials can be flashed?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WbhENRnZXsQ

It’s me alright...no point in pretending to be me lol.Living in America since 97 but been home here since March.No gigs is a killer I must say.Hope you’re feeling better soon Dargan...sounds yuk!
Mon Norn Iron!!

arch

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Re: Anyone from the shore road area of Belfast?.
« Reply #13293 on: November 13, 2020, 11:13:18 AM »
Am I really bandying words with THE Henry? Right now it would do my heart no end of good if I could only know for sure for I've been coughing three days and it's as if someone is pulling a rope tight round my middle, their foot in the small of my back. Is it just a scoundrel imposter on to wind us up? Someone out for larks because they're sick of the risk of getting a dose of covid up the stove pipe ? God, but the feelgood factor's coming back into the thread folks! It'll fair inspire me to be on again talking a right lot of guano. Good old Henry if it is you! But how can we really tell if it's truly Henry, here in a place like this where no credentials can be flashed?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WbhENRnZXsQ
Ask Henry who lived at the top of the entry behind his house, if he answers correctly it is him..

henrycluney

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Re: Anyone from the shore road area of Belfast?.
« Reply #13294 on: November 13, 2020, 04:41:47 PM »
Ask Henry who lived at the top of the entry behind his house, if he answers correctly it is him..
Ivan and Davy opposite the end,Logans on the other side lol
Mon Norn Iron!!

Lost Login

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Re: Anyone from the shore road area of Belfast?.
« Reply #13295 on: November 13, 2020, 08:50:45 PM »
Old home movie footage of the Shore Road in 1966.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqMG8ncnWOo
Not available in Northern Ireland.

seajay

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Re: Anyone from the shore road area of Belfast?.
« Reply #13296 on: November 14, 2020, 08:27:31 PM »
Marvellous footage and lovely memories. I was 11 then. Lived in Alex Pk  Ave. And later Fort William Crescent. Ended up living in France for some time. But like a lot of folk, came back to NI.

SamsYerMan

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Re: Anyone from the shore road area of Belfast?.
« Reply #13297 on: November 20, 2020, 07:55:34 PM »
Just joined the forum peeps and amazed at the history etc,.  Dargan if I'm right you once lived in 189 Shore Road ?  I lived in 187 for a short time with my in laws in the early 1980s.

Number26

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Re: Anyone from the shore road area of Belfast?.
« Reply #13298 on: November 20, 2020, 11:31:48 PM »
Welcome to the forum samsyourman

Dargan

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Re: Anyone from the shore road area of Belfast?.
« Reply #13299 on: November 21, 2020, 08:37:47 AM »
Just joined the forum peeps and amazed at the history etc,.  Dargan if I'm right you once lived in 189 Shore Road ?  I lived in 187 for a short time with my in laws in the early 1980s.
Hallo Sam, if you knew how DELIGHTED I'd be to hear your memories of 187 Shore Road you probably wouldn't credit it, but please, please come on and tell all. No, I didn't live at 189. My Grandparents Nell and Hugh Quinn lived there, arriving fresh in from Ritchie street when 189 and the others were built in the early 1930s. They were there until their deaths in 1977, and only one other set of owners had it after that before Wellworth's flattened it, the Whiteside's and Charlie Patterson's to make 3 or 4 extra bays in their car-park ([censored]). "Cars before Shore Road homes" is a less well-known agenda, but it began when Loughview Villas and Fortview Terrace were trailed off the face of the front of the road, and the Wellworthers, not satisfied at taking the character away there even coveted the three tiny houses, 189, 191 and 193 on the corner of York Park. And all so as they could draw more lines on their tarmac carpark. Scandalous. Greedy baxters.

 I think avidly about that wee house all the time and my times in it, and recovering any memory of it gives me joy. It's funny how you can catch glimpses of moments of the past so clearly and with the "feel" of the times so pronounced it's like these events are still happening. It's almost mystical. I can still see my Grandfather even yet leaning over the front gate smoking and watching the world go by as people bustled or idled along on that unique road. I can see us leaving on a dark Saturday night at this time of the year, spooked after watching Doctor Who and feeling the wind whip up round us at Fortwilliam/Ringan Point, the dim light of McCloy's shop an unlikely beacon on the other side of the road.
 Sorry to be so full-on this time of the morning but hearing from people like you is pure delight. Please tell us what you remember. ANY memory no matter how small brings it all alive. The continuation of this thread is a must, and people with personal recollections and those little anecdotes which re-capture past times, well, if they're prepared to provide their own glimpses of the past it's an act of participation, kindness and generosity if you ask me. Particularly now that images are all but impossible to share. All the best, and please come on with your thoughts and memories. Regards. :hi:
Why did the chicken cross the road?
Because it wasn't the Shore Road.

Dargan

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Re: Anyone from the shore road area of Belfast?.
« Reply #13300 on: November 21, 2020, 08:46:10 AM »
Ivan and Davy opposite the end,Logans on the other side lol
Well done Henry, if Arch reckons it's you then it has to be. What do we say to a rockstar? I say hallo you're as welcome as the butcher the baker, the Tip-head Hoker. Tell us where you practised with the band, and if in any wee hall round the road, being a fan of the most humble architecture I for one would like to hear about every alcove and what the acoustics did for your songs, etc.  :hi:
Why did the chicken cross the road?
Because it wasn't the Shore Road.

Dargan

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Re: Anyone from the shore road area of Belfast?.
« Reply #13301 on: November 21, 2020, 08:53:21 AM »
Thanks to everyone for this new burst of posts. Please put memories and anecdotes on. If anyone out there reckons they can handle Colin O'Neill's footballing career please get in touch as I can't ably comment on a game I know not the eff all square root of. Please help. I'll be on in December with a few memories and calamities of Xmas past which I'm sorting out in my head right now. I'll just say this, trite though it may be and smacking of repetition: what a great road the Shore Road was- and is still to those who are still there. Only those of us who grew up there know of the unique feel I am speaking of. Write it down folks. Publish it. Get it out there to people interested. Or put it here where people can be reminded, entertained, charmed and perhaps restored to the memories of their own roads and homesteads.  :hi:
Why did the chicken cross the road?
Because it wasn't the Shore Road.

SamsYerMan

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Re: Anyone from the shore road area of Belfast?.
« Reply #13302 on: November 21, 2020, 02:43:36 PM »
Forgive me but my memory is fading now until I happen across something that kicks it into gear lol.  I only spent a short time at 187 but I do remember probably number 191 I think were friends of my in laws and if I remember right they were deaf or hard of hearing and when you pushed the doorbell all the lights in the house would turn on and off.  That's about all I have from there lol.  I was conceived in Canada and mum came home while 6 months pregnant to have me in her dads house in Nelson Street, York St.  After my dad finished his contract mining in Canada he too came home and we moved to the prefabs facing mount vernon.  When I was probably about 2 or 3 years old we moved up into mount vernon gardens and lived there for about 10 years.  I went to lowwood and then dunlambert and we ended up living down in york road. I'm always amazed by the old stories of Alec's bank etc and as an early teen we used to go over the tip head collecting for the boney every year lol.  I remember the M2 motorway being built and we used to go over and play on the diggers and dumper trucks at night time lol. I remember the water trough at the fortwilliam gates and the trolley busses, we used to jump on them and hide from the conductor to see how far we could get into town before being thrown off haha. am loving reading all the wee stories and specially about that ringin point, would love to know exactly where it was.

Dargan

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Re: Anyone from the shore road area of Belfast?.
« Reply #13303 on: November 22, 2020, 01:31:29 PM »
Forgive me but my memory is fading now until I happen across something that kicks it into gear lol.  I only spent a short time at 187 but I do remember probably number 191 I think were friends of my in laws and if I remember right they were deaf or hard of hearing and when you pushed the doorbell all the lights in the house would turn on and off.  That's about all I have from there lol.  I was conceived in Canada and mum came home while 6 months pregnant to have me in her dads house in Nelson Street, York St.  After my dad finished his contract mining in Canada he too came home and we moved to the prefabs facing mount vernon.  When I was probably about 2 or 3 years old we moved up into mount vernon gardens and lived there for about 10 years.  I went to lowwood and then dunlambert and we ended up living down in york road. I'm always amazed by the old stories of Alec's bank etc and as an early teen we used to go over the tip head collecting for the boney every year lol.  I remember the M2 motorway being built and we used to go over and play on the diggers and dumper trucks at night time lol. I remember the water trough at the fortwilliam gates and the trolley busses, we used to jump on them and hide from the conductor to see how far we could get into town before being thrown off haha. am loving reading all the wee stories and specially about that ringin point, would love to know exactly where it was.

Sam, your memory isn't fading at all. I love your post, it's so vibrant. Hang onto your hat, I'll come on and do a more detailed answer later on in the week and let's hope in the meantime a few other things will come back to you for your own delectation. I meet people with no memory of their younger years and I feel sorry for them, for I do believe there's something more to all this "looking-back" than meets the eye. It's without a doubt good for people at the very least, provided their recollections are pleasant. And when those memories are set down on a forum or elsewhere, it helps to honour the areas.

I'll leave you with this for the present: you mention Nelson Street. There will definitely be other references to it on this forum if you use the search facility, and there'll maybe even be pictures on other threads which have lasted -- unlike ours here which went down the pan when photobucket decided it wasn't playing any more, and could we pay it a small fortune for the privilege of hosting?

However, When I was a kid I used to hate bus travel because of the ear-drum splitting noise of engines, plus I always felt sick. Aul lads smoked like troopers upstairs and whatever the general design of those buses it drifted down the spiral staircases in these blue fogs and choked the downstairs' passengers (it must've been something to do with windows being open on the upper decks). But anyway, if the windows weren't grimy downstairs the consolation for this torture was being able to look out at all the old dockland streets as they flitted by. They had great character and atmospehere, and if you'd to make a clean patch on the window with a hankie to catch a glimpse, particularly at this time of year at dusk, those old places passed by like a moving picture scene which was intensely compelling. (Just about everything made me think of Charlie Chaplin and Edna Purviance. It's as if they could have come round ANY of the street corners).

I remember Nelson Street, seeing it on such a dark afternoon. It seems odd to look back now and know that I was witnessing the end of Georgian and Victorian dockland streets in North Belfast, for it hardly seems possible to be able to say that in this modern era, those times now vansihed, and a lot of evidence for their very existence ruthlessly swept away. Regards.  :hi:
Why did the chicken cross the road?
Because it wasn't the Shore Road.

Dargan

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Re: Anyone from the shore road area of Belfast?.
« Reply #13304 on: November 25, 2020, 11:54:38 AM »
 Hallo Sam,
 
I'm not known for brevity but I'll do all this again for the sake of interest and because it's beneath the skin. Skip to the *** paragraph if you only want to know about the locale.
 
Thanks again from you memories of the place. I'm interested in the trough you mention because anything which gives information on the old layout of that particular spot is good information. Sadly, people who recall horses being watered there are now very few, and all I have are notes to draw on about what I was told 30 years ago when older people were giving me accounts of the 1930s and 40s. We have heard of this trough previously, and although some would scoff and say it was unimportant, we who are interested in Ringan Point realise that small scraps of information can be very helpful and enlightening – and have been.
 
You have asked where Ringan Point is, see below. But first of all, if interested take your pick between Ringan/Ringen/Ringsend and others. I think when things were swallowed by the mists of time and human intervention we also saw it referred to as "Ringings." What may be at play here is the good old Belfast thing of sticking an "ing" on the end of things because it sounds posher. Anyway, there was an article earlier on the thread about someone having lost a "Newfoundland Dog" and to apply to "Ringings Point." It's another age when people spelled words as they saw fit, but it morphing into Ringings could well be a posh-ism in someone, daft though it seems. (How many times have we heard someone call a jug a joog?). Parvenus have existed everywhere in all times.
 
However, this lost Newfoundland dog: that was in about 1830. Round about that time a lot changed in the locale of Ringan Point when the old house there was pulled down and the lands added to the Mount Vernon estate lands. I'm sure you'll well remember Mount Vernon house when it was the school premises. None of us recall its one-time rolling acres, for this was long ago. But some on the thread remember it as a derelict building, defunct from the end of WW2 when it had been an ARP post. There were images of it being refurbished and turned into a school. All gone because of the greed and lack of community-spirit of photo bucket owners.
 
***So where is Ringan Point? You have to now paint a picture in your imagination. The Shore Road once had the tide come right up to its edge, and from what we can gather the bottom of Fortwilliam Park once had some kind of a headland projecting out into the channels. This was Ringan Point. Old maps refer. Salt marsh was present along there, so don't think of some neat coastline, but a jagged set of inlets, the water coming further up to the edge at some places than others. I think Ringan Point was maybe the most "water-logged" part of the natural highway along the coastline, but that's only speculation. If you remember the man-made headland known as Alec's bank, well think of a bigger, natural headland of a similar kind continuing out into the lough at the bottom of what we know as Fortwilliam. Think of it as a place you could perhaps walk along the top of and look down either side at the water lapping its edges, the rough, amphibious grasses the habitats of certain sea-birds. A sort of mini peninsula to gaze down from at the wildlife. But I don't want you to think this is an accurate representation, for no-one really knows. Piecing it all together, this seems to be what existed. I daresay if we were suddenly transported back in time it would produce more surprises than enough, but as yet such a journey isn't possible. It may well be some day when the scientists retrieve their digits.
 
Now, in around 1820 they tried to quarry stone here at Ringan Point. The records show this. I've sometimes wondered if the quarrying undermined the foundations of Ringan House, a Georgian mansion . One of the articles you now can't see reported a crime at the house, some maid and her fella pilfering or something in the earlier part of the 1800s. (I have all this stuff saved if you want it). However, re. the quarrying: they seemed to expect the quality of stone extracted in the Scrabo area of Newtownards, but were disappointed. The geology had suggested it was possible. If all fell flat. An article was shown on the thread with these details.
 
I know because of the disappearance of the photobucket articles you won't be able to see the historical articles found by people on here, and posted. There are several references to Ringan Point in history, the earliest being that Ninian, the representative of the Christian Church arrived in the early A.D. period and established a church here superimposing the "new" religion over the indigenous one. You probably know that our entire area has Saint Ninian connections and references.
 
It is known that what the Christian church did was to go around taking over older sites of worship established thousands of years before. Previously the people worshipped the facets of their land and the seasons: water sources, streams, hills, trees, rocks, the constellations etc. This week I have been reading a book in which a Christian Preacher gave up trying to "govern" the minds and souls of people in a certain country locale,  realising their form of worship was unspoken and largely unfathomable but a "reality" (as he called it) which they lived by- as opposed to creating ceremony around. This was as late as 1975 in a part of the U.K.! So if we see the people back then as merely accepting, on the surface, these alien beliefs in the supernatural world of the Middle East, but knowing other truths in their souls, hearts and minds, I think we won't go far wrong. And what is it about people seeking control and having to have it wholesale, lock, stock and barrel? Yes they want money an' all for the golden palaces of their brocade-wearing, jewel-bedecked leaders. All these church leaders all blinged up in foreign lands sending out envoys on a huge racket. You can't get away from the truth.
 
So the general idea is that perhaps Ninian superimposed a church on an ancient Celtic/Pagan precinct of worship somewhere on Ringan Point in the way he was ordered and instructed to do by Rome. Now this isn't an anti-catholic account, but describing a thing like this in Belfast becomes tricky. If you ask me all religion except a worship of the land has no real foundation. Especially when we are being told that the doings in the Middle East, starting off with people who lived to over a thousand years old worshipping a god who caused bushes to burn for the hell of it, is the standard to be apsired to. It's sheer, unadulterated nonsense. There is a lot more sense to be had out of Aesop's Fables. How could we be so gullible? Bullying people into these beliefs is the only answer. "You're having it, or else." However, I didn't ought to get caught up talking about that pile of crap, life's depressing enough at the moment.
 
Anyway, Ringan is a corruption of Ninian (or vice-versa).
 
Now to the interesting bit. As we know, at one time the Christians didn't like people to get an honourable burial if the deceased lay outside their faith, were unbaptised, unknown, born out of wedlock etc. etc. They didn't want such unfortunates to sully their "consecrated" ground. And anyway there was no money in it. Well, long after Ninian's church ceased to be somewhere we modern-dayers know as the area at lower Fortwilliam, the ground was deconsecrated (note that it didn't seem to matter about the Christians who had been converted and buried there in previous centuries under the auspices of the church. They were suddenly cast into discarded ground and not a coffin shifted). And so after that the deconsecrated ground was only thought fit for deaths which were considered somewhat inglorious by the church.
 
Deconsecrated ground must have posed a bit of a problem to the church. What to do with it? Yes! Stick into it unbaptised children, sailors washed up on the shore, suicides etc. All those people not deemed worthy. So, according to record and account, such unfortunates were interred somewhere at Ringan Point and then associated more with the old pagan precincts which were, of course, shunned. Oh yes. It was fitting to bury them in a place the church had withdrawn from: where older associations and connotations were resurrected. These people, then, were buried in what frankly was considered a vile place. (Anyone reading this who can argue pro-Christian needs their head examined).
 
Now to the technicalities of where this burial ground was: some of the later accounts state the burial ground at, "the  rising ground to the North of the Arches." This means somewhere about the old Mount Vernon Green area. Lately a friend of Tommytwotoes  reported he found human bones there when the land was excavated to build Mount Vernon Green – mid- twentieth century. The matter was hushed by the authorities at the time. The account is on the thread. Could they have been the sad remains of people interred for being unworthy of being buried more conventionally? It's possible.
 
Plague victims are reported to have been buried on Ringan Point also. Plagues of one kind or another seem common enough, so precisely what period of history this happened is unknown. If Mount Vernon Green was built on the old Ringan graveyard which contained plague victims, notwithstanding the inglorious burials these people had, we can only hope that the mid- twentieth century residents weren't impacted upon health-wise.
 
Interestingly, before I knew any of this I'd a friend who lived on the Green. She used to say to me that she often gazed into the networks of branches in the Winter trees on Fortwilliam Park and saw skulls. Maybe her sensibilities were picking up on the presence of people under the sward there? Sometimes I wonder if the people who planned this complex of maisonettes left a small "green" area intact in a kind of tribute. That green area being the walkway between Fortwilliam Park and Mount Vernon Park where the old trees still flourish. You probably remember the steep-banked stream there which was covered up some years ago. One of our dogs loved getting behind the grille and getting stuck. How he got in I don't know, but this is another matter: that area is littered with souterrains (underground tunnels of unknown purpose) from hundreds or thousands of years ago.
 
Over the years we have looked at accounts of the place by thread contributors whose memories of the place go back a bit, examined old accounts, considered this and that, poured over images etc. Maybe you can "catch" why it's all so compelling. It's never far from the minds of a few of us even yet, and although time and tide wait for no man maybe some day there will be Eureka moment when it will all become just a tad clearer.
 
A number of cottages once sat on the rising ground just below Mount Vernon Green. They are in the living memory of some of the contributors and some recalled the people and activities around these cottages. My own mother recalled Billy Creighton's farm and the man himself collecting swill for his pigs round the road. A curious set of steps cut into the hill at the bottom of Fortwilliam, which curiously went nowhere, have been spoken of.
 
One such homestead – the last of the cottages- which drew me in as a child was a tiny, whitewashed cottage which sat up a short lane opposite McCloy's shop. In my childhood it bore the address 276 Shore Road. In those days there was also a row of terraced houses called "Belleview Terrace" adjacent to where the post-box is at the bottom of Fortwilliam. In my day they started to demolish a lot of older houses and buildings round the road with a sort of ruthless approach to heritage, community and, yes, aesthetics. It all adds to the mystery, for no other road in Belfast seems to have been decimated to this extent, (though I imagine there'd be a few other takers for the cry of "outrage!").
 
I'm sorry if you are unable to see all the bits on the thread connected to Ringan Point. All kinds of items comprise the entire picture. Ringan Point seems to have been, even in our day, a bit of a "Devil's Elbow" type place. A liminal place- neither one thing nor the other in the manner of many strange, vague, "haunted" sort of places. Places of "dismal memory" as one article put it. But no matter how we care to view it, there is a very mysterious element to all of this. It's never far from my mind and I wonder precisely what the whole picture is. There is no doubt in my mind that the well at the bottom of Fortwilliam was once part of a centre of nature worship, and even though King Billy was said to have stopped at it, it was blocked up. Most peculiar that the powers that be would simply fill it in even though it connected to a personage considered important, culturally. (I'd like to fill some of them in). Carrickfergus got a statue to this monarch, but the Shore Road got an ancient well destroyed. And undoubtedly it preceded King Bill by centuries, if not thousands of years. Why oh why?and just to balance the books here, so to say, I don't advocate king Billyism any more than I do the palaces of Rome and its representatives.
 
The whole subject of Ringan Point is a complex and challenging issue. Once land met sea there as a natural headland projected out and in all likelihood presented a landing place for many marauders down through the centuries of recorded time, and times before that. Marauders, charlatans and persons at the vanguard of a racket come in many shapes and sizes, and those carrying crosses and a book about a lot of Middle Eastern nonsense may well have crushed underfoot the Scarlet Pimpernels and Alexanders which colonised the place after the end of the Ice Age. The people they will have subjugated will have lived in the woods which covered the area, sweeping down from Cavehill, the cry of wolves at night keeping them in tight-knit communities protected by fire. If you can get to this place in your mind, you might achieve an incoming flow of authentic information. Dreams and daydreams carry some of the biggest truths of this life. Regards, and good luck.
 
 
 
Why did the chicken cross the road?
Because it wasn't the Shore Road.