Author Topic: Old Graveyard Near Donegall Pass.  (Read 4571 times)

Volvic

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Old Graveyard Near Donegall Pass.
« on: July 23, 2007, 10:18:57 PM »
Would anyone  know about a graveyard in the vicinity of Donegall Pass.

Three of my Grandfather's sisters died within a very short time of each other in the early 1900's. I think it was TB, not sure, but many other people in Belfast died around the same time.

Their name was Russell and they lived in Virginia Street, just off Donegall Pass and they are supposed to be buried in a graveyard near to where they lived. I suppose the rest of the family is buried there also. I was down a few days ago to see if Virginia St. was still there but it is all new houses there now.

The family, as far as I understand it, had come from Bessbrook to live in Belfast. They went to Berry Street Presbyterian Church.

 
Any help would be really appreciated,

Brian.

eddiec

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Re: Old Graveyard Near Donegall Pass.
« Reply #1 on: July 24, 2007, 11:54:09 PM »
First thought would be the City Cemetery.
Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please.  <i>Mark Twain</i>

Volvic

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Re: Old Graveyard Near Donegall Pass.
« Reply #2 on: July 25, 2007, 10:10:49 AM »
Thanks for that eddiec,

Other people have suggested the same.

It was my aunt who is now 92 (with a great memory) told me that the grave was close to Donegall Pass. I don't think she has ever been at this grave as she said she would love to go to see it. Her mothers side of the family were buried in the City and when she was young went to the grave with her mother. I think she would remember if it was the City that her fathers's side is buried in having been there quite a lot.

Brian.

Christopher

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Re: Old Graveyard Near Donegall Pass.
« Reply #3 on: July 25, 2007, 01:24:59 PM »
Hello Brian,

Friars Bush Cemetery or Balmoral Cemetery would be my first thought. Those buried in the graveyard at Balmoral were predominantly Presbyterian, both subscribers or non-subscribers, but people from other denominations and faiths were also buried there.

Christopher

Volvic

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Re: Old Graveyard Near Donegall Pass.
« Reply #4 on: July 25, 2007, 05:07:40 PM »
Thanks Christopher,

Balmoral does seem to be a likely candidate. The only thing is the distance from Donegall Pass. I think I read somewhere that Friars Bush was 'full' before the beginning of the 1900's, only families who previously had graves there could use them until full, but no new graves could be dug. My Great-Grandfather and family came from Bessbrook to Belfast around about 1910 ish, so could not have had a grave there. But who knows - it's all a bit of a mystery.

Thanks again for your help,
Brian.

acheux_rifleman

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Re: Old Graveyard Near Donegall Pass.
« Reply #5 on: July 25, 2007, 09:30:15 PM »
Hi Volvic and welcome to the Forum.

Bit of an aside, but was 3072, Sgt William G. Russell, Irish Guards, anything to you?

Good luck with you search,

Acheux.
We are the Pilgrims, master; we shall go
Always a little further - it may be
Beyond the last blue mountain barred with snow,
Across that angry or t

acheux_rifleman

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Re: Old Graveyard Near Donegall Pass.
« Reply #6 on: July 25, 2007, 09:37:07 PM »
Hi again.

Just thinking about your relatives. I know that St. Mary Magdalene Church, Donegall Pass, was built on part of the site of the old Magdalene Asylum, which was a woman's refuge. From memory this institution remained in a building behind the church until about 1920. I also think (although can't be certain) that it had a small burial ground?

Anyone else shed any light on this? I've been in and out of the church hall's but don't recall any graves?

Acheux.
We are the Pilgrims, master; we shall go
Always a little further - it may be
Beyond the last blue mountain barred with snow,
Across that angry or t

Volvic

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Re: Old Graveyard Near Donegall Pass.
« Reply #7 on: July 26, 2007, 12:13:03 AM »
Hello Acheux,

Thank you so much for your two messages and also for the kind welcome. I had a message typed out to send you earlier and when I pressed the post button I lost it and so had to start again.

Message 1 - I don't know. My Grandfather was William Russell and he went to Berry Street Presbyterian Church. I see in the Roll Of Honour there that there is a Wm. G. Russell, from Beech Street, a private in the Irish Guards, and he was wounded. I don't think this was my Great-Grandfather as he would have been too old to join, although I don't know what age he was then. He had two brothers one of whom, at least, came up to Belfast to live. These brothers had both sons called William. William C Russell - born 1883 and William A Russell - born 1893. Do you know where William G Russell lived? My Grandfather John Alexander Russell did serve in the army and fought in the First World War. He was wounded. Sadly and to my shame, that is all I know about his time in the war. I don't know what regiment he was with or where he was posted, or how he was wounded, nothing. My aunt mentioned above doesn't remember anything either, as she was quite young when he died in 1927. She does remember that when they moved house from Lisburn his military things seemed to get mislaid.

Message 2 - That is fantastic. It just sounds like the sort of place that my aunt was talking about. I contacted St. Mary Magdalene Church a few days ago. the girl there said that she had asked different people from the Church but that no-one had ever heard of a graveyard in the Donegall Pass area. But they could be wrong.

Thank's so much again for your help,
Brian.

acheux_rifleman

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Re: Old Graveyard Near Donegall Pass.
« Reply #8 on: July 26, 2007, 12:48:38 AM »
Sorry for the short reply, bedtime looms.

Thankyou for the acknowledgement. I'll see what else I can find for you.

In the meantime, there was only one John Alexander Russell that is recorded as having served overseas.

He was Pte John Alexander Russell, 543022, Labour Corps.

If you download his Medal Index Card, you should be able to find out where he served as it gives theatres of service. Also, if he was wounded or invalided, it should give a reference number for the Silver War Badge. This can be cross referred with the rolls and this will give additional info, such as any other unit in which he may have served and what wounds/injury/illness he suffered from.

Be in touch soon.

Best Wishes,

Acheux.

We are the Pilgrims, master; we shall go
Always a little further - it may be
Beyond the last blue mountain barred with snow,
Across that angry or t

Volvic

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Re: Old Graveyard Near Donegall Pass.
« Reply #9 on: July 26, 2007, 11:02:53 PM »
Hi Acheux,

Thank you so much for all this help.

I hope I have it right about Granda, you know how things get lost in the mists of time. My dad didn't talk much about it either because he didn't know or he didn't like bringing up the memories of his father, who died when my dad was 17. I know that when he went he was a thin man but when he came home my aunt said he was like a skeleton.

As to the Medal Index Card, (please forgive my ignorance), do I download it from the National Archives? How would I know if it was the right John A Russell, is there anything to identify where he lived or the like?

Thanks again,
Best Wishes,
Brian.

acheux_rifleman

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Re: Old Graveyard Near Donegall Pass.
« Reply #10 on: July 27, 2007, 10:58:29 AM »
Hi Brian.

Sorry, should have submitted the link to the site.

I had a check and there was only the one John Alexander Russell who served in the Great War - these are the details I passed previously.

The link to the MIC is as below, and the card can be downloaded from this - it costs £3-50. The thing about the MIC is that it normally records the award of the Silver War Badge which was issued to wounded soldiers. It will give a further reference number, but this can be checked on the SWB roll. It should elaborate on other units and the type of injury or illness. He may have been entitled to a War Office pension, if invalided. Most of these papers still remain.

Usually men joined local battalions - I would realistically expected John to have served with the Royal Irish Rifles (probably the 10th Battalion - the South Belfast Volunteers). Saying that, the Battalion was disbanded in France in February 1918 and most men transferred to the Labour Corps (Divisional Entrenching Battalion).

If you do choose to download the card, you could e-mail the image to me and I'll see if I can gleen anything further from it.

Best Wishes,

A.

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/browse-refine.asp?CatID=10&searchType=browserefine&pagenumber=1&query=

We are the Pilgrims, master; we shall go
Always a little further - it may be
Beyond the last blue mountain barred with snow,
Across that angry or t

Volvic

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Re: Old Graveyard Near Donegall Pass.
« Reply #11 on: July 28, 2007, 11:21:06 AM »
Hi Acheux,

Many thanks again for your help. I will download the MIC card soon and send it to you. Will I send it on the forum or as a private message?

I found in the Roll of Honour for the Crescent, Belfast -
Private  Andrew Russell - 8 Gordon Terrace - 10th Batt. RIR.
Private  George Russell - 8 Gordon Terrace - 10th Batt. RIR - Wounded.
Driver George Russell - 7 (37) Auburn Street - A.S.C.
Trooper William Russell - 7 (37) Auburn Street -Irish Guards.

These would be Granda's cousins. Interesting that you said about R.I.R.
 with two of his cousins in it.

Best Wishes,
Brian.

acheux_rifleman

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Re: Old Graveyard Near Donegall Pass.
« Reply #12 on: July 28, 2007, 02:50:58 PM »
Hi Acheux,

Many thanks again for your help. I will download the MIC card soon and send it to you. Will I send it on the forum or as a private message?

I found in the Roll of Honour for the Crescent, Belfast -
Private  Andrew Russell - 8 Gordon Terrace - 10th Batt. RIR.
Private  George Russell - 8 Gordon Terrace - 10th Batt. RIR - Wounded.

These would be Granda's cousins. Interesting that you said about R.I.R.
 with two of his cousins in it.

Best Wishes,
Brian.

Hi again Brian.

I mentioned the Irish Rifles as this would have been his local Regiment, the 10th Battalion recruiting from South Belfast. I some details on your Granda's cousins also. I have listed the other 'Russell's' of the Battalion as I don't know who the other brother was, although possibly William James Russell, who was killed in action. See that George was a cabinet maker at the Queen's Island - presumably he would have been engaged on work on the Titanic?? Anyway, here's the info I have. If you have anything further on these men, would love to know. I have a pic of George Russell - don't suppose you have any photos of his brothers in uniform?

Russell, Andrew, 15832, Rfn
Andrew is recorded as having been a member of the congregation of the Crescent Presbyterian Church, and is recorded on the Presbyterian Roll of Honour as having resided 8 Gordon Terrace. Also recorded as residing that address is his brother, Rfn George Russell, 10/15887, as listed below. Andrew is recorded as residing this address in 1912 when he signed the Ulster Covenant at the Crescent Church. The Covenant gives his address as ‘8 Gordon Terrace Agincourt Avenue’. Lily Russell is also recorded as residing that address. Medal Index Card reference WO 372/17.

RUSSELL, DAVID, 10/15886, RFN
PTE. WO 372/17. MIC.
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/details-result.asp?Edoc_Id=5176975&queryType=1&resultcount=2

RUSSELL, GEORGE, 10-15887, RFN
PTE. LATER PTE, 129758, ROYAL AIR FORCE. WO 372/17. MIC. “ULSTER WAR NEWS – RIFLEMAN GEORGE RUSSELL, ROYAL IRISH RIFLES, WHO HAD BEEN ADMITTED TO HOSPITAL IN SCOTLAND, SUFFERING FROM WOUNDS, IS THE FOURTH SON OF MR. ANDREW RUSSELL, 152 AGINCOURT AVENUE, BELFAST, WHO HAS TWO OTHER SONS IN THE ARMY. PRIOR TO ENLISTMENT RIFLEMAN RUSSELL, WHO IS A MEMBER OF THE SOUTH BELFAST REGIMENT U.V.F., WAS A CABINET-MAKER AT THE QUEEN’S ISLAND.” BT – 17 JULY 1917. RUSSELL, GEORGE/152 AGINCOURT AVENUE/BELFAST: SOUTH/SAINT ANNE’S/CITY HALL/ WITHEROW, T H:B A. ETHEL, ANDREW AND STANLEY BALLENTINE RUSSELL ALSO RECORDED AS RESIDING THIS ADDRESS. ULSTER COVENANT. PHOTOGRAPH – “RIFLEMAN G. RUSSELL, ROYAL IRISH RIFLES, 152 AGINCOURT AVENUE, BELFAST, WOUNDED.” BT – 21 JULY 1917.
George is recorded as having been a member of the congregation of the Crescent Presbyterian Church, and is recorded on the Presbyterian Roll of Honour as having resided 8 Gordon Terrace. Also recorded as residing that address is his brother, Rfn Andrew Russell, 15832, recorded above.
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/details-result.asp?Edoc_Id=5177975&queryType=1&resultcount=3

RUSSELL, WILLIAM, 10/15831, RFN
PTE. LATER 10/50154, CPL, R.IR.RIF, THEN 50154, L/CPL, NORTHUMBERLAND FUSILIERS. WO 372/17. MIC.
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/details-result.asp?Edoc_Id=5181761&queryType=1&resultcount=14

RUSSELL, WILLIAM JAMES, 17/729, RFN
DIED 28 AUGUST 16, AGE 21. SON OF ANDREW AND ELIZABETH  E. RUSSELL (NEE MOORE) OF BELFAST. BAILLEUL COMMUNAL CEMETERY EXTENSION (NORD). GRAVE REF: II.F.184. C.W.G.C. b. St. ANNE’S, Co. ANTRIM, e. BELFAST. D.O.W. F&F. SOLDIERS DIED. PTE. WO 372/17. MIC.
http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=201411
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/details-result.asp?Edoc_Id=5182197&queryType=1&resultcount=14

Best Wishes,

Acheux.
We are the Pilgrims, master; we shall go
Always a little further - it may be
Beyond the last blue mountain barred with snow,
Across that angry or t

Volvic

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Re: Old Graveyard Near Donegall Pass.
« Reply #13 on: July 30, 2007, 01:03:35 AM »
Hi Acheux,

This is brilliant. Sorry to take so long to respond but I have been away since yesterday and am only home. Up until a few weeks ago I knew nothing about any of Granda's cousins. What I have found out is -

Andrew Russell lived in Bessbrook as did his other two brothers, James and William (my Great-Grandfather ). They were all Linen Lappers so I would imagine they had moved to Bessbrook for the work.
Andrew married Rachel Ballentine and had 5- sons and 4- daughters all born in Bessbrook, (that's all I know about anyway, there could have been others born later). I will give you the sons names.
In Bessbrook Presbyterian Church Baptism Records it gives -

Robert James Russell     -     born 10.2.1880.
Andrew Russell         -          born 11.8.1881.
William Cherry Russell   -      born 5.10.1883. (I am not sure if it is Cherry, as the writing was quite bad, but almost certain).
George Russell           -        born 3.1.1886.
Stanley Ballentine Russell - born 1.5.1893.

Andrew, Rachel and the children moved up to Belfast around 1901, his other two brothers came up around the same time. Andrew first lived in 54 Pakenham St. for a couple of years, then moved to Rugby Ave. and then to 8 Gordon Terrace, Agincourt Ave. I see from what you sent that they must have lived in 152 Agincourt Ave as well at some time.

It's interesting you should say that George was a cabinet maker as my Grandfather, John Alexander Russell, George's cousin, was also a cabinet maker.

Also interesting is the fact that it says he had two other sons in the army, it could have been one born later than Bessbrook.

Sadly that is all the info at present I have about them. I don't know if they married or had any family, but hopefully I will get round to looking in the registers for them.
The only photograph I have of my Granda's family is a couple of himself, but none in uniform.
If it would be possible do you think I could have a copy of George's photo? I would be lovely to see one of the family.

I don't know how to thank you for all this information you are giving to me, it really is appreciated.

Many Thanks,
Brian.


acheux_rifleman

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Re: Old Graveyard Near Donegall Pass.
« Reply #14 on: July 30, 2007, 08:30:17 AM »
Hi again Brian and thanks for the acknowledgement. I hope it will be OK with yourself to include this additional information beside the entries for these men on my roll? Just small snippets of info help to build a bigger picture of these soldiers and their lives.

I have saved a pic of George Russell to my desktop, but as the maximum file for the forum is 50 kb, it is too large. If you don't mind letting me have an active e-mail address by PM, I'll get this fired off to you. It's only a scan from the local newspaper that reported his wounding, but not bad quality.

Best Wishes,

Acheux.

We are the Pilgrims, master; we shall go
Always a little further - it may be
Beyond the last blue mountain barred with snow,
Across that angry or t