Author Topic: William Samuel Baird Ross  (Read 2937 times)

hen190782

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William Samuel Baird Ross
« on: June 24, 2013, 08:25:21 AM »
Good Morning

I am interested in verifying some family information about this guy who was Killed in Action on 21st march 1918.

Newspaper clippings record that he was the eldest son of Captain James Ross of 110 Gainsborough Drive - verified from 1918 BSD (thanks, Mary  :) )

On tracking James Ross back, I find that the family lived at 33 Parkmount Street (1901 Census) and 10 Gainsborough Drive (1911 Census) - although the 1910 BSD record the family at 19 Gainsborough Drive.

However, William Samuel Baird Ross is not mentioned on either Censi return and the 1911 Census indicates 4 living children, all of whom are recorded on the return.

Unfortunately, I do not have an age but as James and Mary had been married for 30 years in 1911 (m c1880) and Arthur was 27 (b c1883), William Samuel Baird Ross would probably have been born between 1880 and 1883.

I would be most grateful if anyone can help me track down his DoB and verify whether or not he was a son of James and Mary Ross.

Thanks

Nigel

Elwyn

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Re: William Samuel Baird Ross
« Reply #1 on: June 24, 2013, 09:20:09 AM »

On tracking James Ross back, I find that the family lived at 33 Parkmount Street (1901 Census) and 10 Gainsborough Drive (1911 Census) - although the 1910 BSD record the family at 19 Gainsborough Drive.

I think I can help you with one point of confusion over the address in Gainsborough Drive. In rural areas the houses didn’t have numbers at all, and even in towns there were often properties which either had no distinct number or were sub-divided and shared the same number. As a consequence the enumerators used a private numbering system to list each individual household separately, and so often ignored the street number used for postal purposes where there was one.
 
That seems to be the case for your family in the 1911 census. If you click on “Additional page 2” for house 10, you will see that the postal address of that property is listed there and was 19 Gainsborough Drive.
 
Elwyn

Rosemary Joan

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Re: William Samuel Baird Ross
« Reply #2 on: June 24, 2013, 09:54:03 AM »
According to Ancestry.co.uk  William Samuel Baird Ross was born in Larne in 1895.  Will have a closer look at this.
RosemaryJoan
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Rosemary Joan

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Re: William Samuel Baird Ross
« Reply #3 on: June 24, 2013, 09:57:33 AM »
Here is the Family Search record:

Name:[/color]
William Samuel Baird Ross
Event Type:[/color]
Birth
Event Date:[/color]
Jul - Sep 1895
Event Place:[/color]
Larne, Ireland
Registration Quarter and Year:[/color]
Jul - Sep 1895
Registration District:[/color]
Larne
Age:[/color]
Birth Year (Estimated):[/color]
Mother's Maiden Name:[/color]
Volume Number:[/color]
1
Page Number:[/color]
578
GS Film number:[/color]
101065[/font]
Digital Folder Number:[/color]
004193979[/font]
Image Number:[/color]
00551

RosemaryJoan
[/color][/font][/size]
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Rosemary Joan

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Re: William Samuel Baird Ross
« Reply #4 on: June 24, 2013, 10:33:07 AM »
Here is William Samuel Baird on the 1901 census:
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Antrim/Islandmagee/Portmuck/990241/
If you look at the actual entry you will see that his name is actually William Samuel B.

Here he is in 1911

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Antrim/Island_Magee/Portmuck/188583/

Father missing on both occasions - at sea?
RosemaryJoan
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hen190782

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Re: William Samuel Baird Ross
« Reply #5 on: June 24, 2013, 01:35:39 PM »
Rosemary Joan

Many thanks for this information - I see that the head of Family in 1911 was recorded as "Jas" (James), as you say, he was probably at sea on Census Day.  The caption to one of the newspaper clippings refers to "Captain James Ross, Gainsborough Drive (late of Islandmagee)" and the other refers to his parents' address as 110 Gainsborough Drive.

Regards

Nigel

Rosemary Joan

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Re: William Samuel Baird Ross
« Reply #6 on: June 24, 2013, 01:59:34 PM »
I have the marriage of James Ross, Islandmagee, sailor to Mary Magowan,Islandmagee on 24 March 1881.  This appears to be the Mary in the 1911 census.  I can't find any further information on  William Samuel Bair Ross's birth to verify who his mother was, but it almost looks as if James Ross was maintaining two families.  He was obviously at home in Gainsborough Drive on census night, as he signed the declaration.
Rebecca, mother of William Samuel Baird, says on her census declaration that she has been married to James Ross for 21 years.
RosemaryJoan
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Rosemary Joan

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Re: William Samuel Baird Ross
« Reply #7 on: June 24, 2013, 02:25:43 PM »
Definitely the same James Ross, as here is the record of his will
Title :Mr
Date of Death :19 August 1933Surname :Ross
Date of Grant :26 September 1933Forename :JamesReseal Date :Registry :BelfastEffects :Effects £836 12s 11d
No Image[/color][/font][/size]
Full Abstract :Ross James of 110 Gainsborough Drive Belfast retired sea captain died 19 August 1933 Administration Belfast 26 September to Adam Alexander Ross assistant cashier. Effects £836 12s. 11d.

Minnie Jemima died in Belfast, aged 26

RosemaryJoan

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hen190782

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Re: William Samuel Baird Ross
« Reply #8 on: June 24, 2013, 06:27:19 PM »
Rosemary Jane

This is quite intriguing!

I do not think that the James Ross at 110 Gainsborough Drive in 1918 is the same man as the James Ross living at  10/29 Gainsborough Drive (1911 Census) and  33 Parkmount Street (1901 Census).

1.  The 1918 newspaper clippings refer to William Samuel Baird Ross's father as being "late of Islandmagee", which does fit with someone who had been living in Belfast since at least 1901;

2.  The  Ross family living at  10/29 Gainsborough Drive were Wesleyan Methodists whereas the Portmuck Ross family were Presbyterian in both 1901 and 1911

Thanks

Nigel


Rosemary Joan

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Re: William Samuel Baird Ross
« Reply #9 on: June 24, 2013, 07:29:26 PM »
Then why was Adam Alexander Ross (born  and lived in Portmuck in 1901 and 1911) the executor of James's will?  In 1901 Adam had no religion, only Rebecca was Presbyterian.  In 1911 she states that they are all Presbyterian.   Robert T Ross who was witness to James and Mary's marriage in 1881 was Wesleyan Methodist.  We really need to see Adam Alexander and William Samuel Baird's birth records to establish who their mother and father were, and also look at James's will.
I am sure SKS will look at the records when next in PRONI.
RosemaryJoan

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hen190782

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Re: William Samuel Baird Ross
« Reply #10 on: June 24, 2013, 08:23:08 PM »
Rosemary Joan

If James Ross had two families, a Belfast-based one with Mary and a Portmuck-based one with Rebecca, why would he bring the two families together by 1918?

Why would the James Ross residing at 110 Gainsborough Drive in 1918 be described as "lately of Islandmagee" if he had been living in Belfast for at least 17 years?

Why would the newspaper describe William Samuel Baird Ross (b1895) as Captain James Ross's eldest son if he had sons aged 17, 16 and 12 in 1901?

Apart from a shared occupation as "Master Mariner", there is nothing to indicate that the James Ross married to Mary is the same as the James Ross married to Rebecca.

Whilst it may seem to be an unlikely co-incidence that there would be two men called James Ross, both Master Mariners and both living  int he same part of North Belfast, it is worth noting that the 1918 Belfast Street Directory records a "James Ross, Master Mariner" living at 4 Castleton Avenue (there was no Ross family living in Castleton Avenue in 1910) and a "James Ross, Master Mariner"  living at 110 Gainsborough Drive.

I would suggest that there were two men called James Ross, both Master Mariners and possibly related as they both had associations with Islandmagee

James Ross (elder) was married to Mary and the family lived at 33 Parkmount Street (1901 Census), 29 Gainsborough Drive (1910/1911 Census) and 10 Castleton Avenue in 1918.

James Ross (younger) was married to Rebecca and the family lived in Portmuck (1901 and 1911) and at 110 Gainsborough Drive in 1918 - this is the James Ross that died in 1933.

The 1901 and 1911 censi both indicate that Adam Alexander Ross and William Samuel Baird Ross were the sons of a Rebecca Ross and the 1911 Census return implies that Rebecca's husband was called James.

It would be interesting to know whether there is a record of marriage between James and Rebecca, especially if that record indicated the ages of the parties.

Regards

Nigel

hen190782

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Re: William Samuel Baird Ross
« Reply #11 on: June 24, 2013, 09:01:29 PM »
"History of Islandmagee" by Dixon Donaldson (1927)

(http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~econnolly/oextracts/oeislemageememoriam.html)

Ross, William Samuel Baird. - Age 23. Second-Lieutenant, 15th Batt (N. Belfast) R.I. Rifles. Fell leading his men against an attack of the enemy at St. Quentin on the 21st March, 1918. Son of James Ross (retired ship-master), and his wife Rebecca G. Baird, Gainsborough Drive, Belfast, and formerly of Portmuck, Islandmagee, where the subject of the memoir was born.


maura

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Re: William Samuel Baird Ross
« Reply #12 on: June 25, 2013, 02:21:51 PM »
The James that married Mary Magown father's a Robert, there a marriage for James Ross to Rebecca G Baird 1889 Letterkenny's Presbyterian, his father's a Samuel.

Rosemary Joan

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Re: William Samuel Baird Ross
« Reply #13 on: June 25, 2013, 04:42:21 PM »
Hooray!  That will be the marriage - Letterkenny!!. I suppose James sailed into Lough Swilly at times.  Where did you find the marriage Maura? Can't find any James Ross on the British Merchant Navy index.
Anyway, great sleuthing, now we can have a good night's sleep!
RosemaryJoan
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Rosemary Joan

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Re: William Samuel Baird Ross
« Reply #14 on: June 25, 2013, 05:05:00 PM »
Three James Ross's signed the Ulster Covenant, so there were a lot of them about.  I have to confess that my g.g.grandfather was also James Ross!  RosemaryJoan

Ross
James72 Gainsboro DriveBelfast: SouthSaint Anne'sCity Hall[/size][/color][/font]
Ross
JamesMillbay IslandmageeAntrim: EastIslandmageeOrange Hall[/size][/color][/font]
Ross
James110 Gainsborough DriveBelfast: EastPottingerSinclair Seamen's Church[/size][/color][/font]
As ye sow, so shall ye reap