Author Topic: Ashers bakery, any thoughts.  (Read 113303 times)

jjmack

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Re: Ashers bakery, any thoughts.
« Reply #990 on: October 11, 2018, 08:22:20 PM »
The judges appear to have made their decision on the basis of employment law discrimination,... but it wasn't an employment issue. !

It was an issue about arbitrary censorship prompted by personal beliefs and opinions being imposed on other people.

So what happens when the next cake slogan, or request to a printer to print a leaflet or poster,... is about a political party or campaign,... or about a sporting event or team or a sports person,... or even about a religious denomination, or issue or event. !

Absolute balderdash, nothing to do with the Judges making their decision based on the basis of employment law discrimination. Based on common sense and the inability of Lees to prove he had been discriminated against, because of who and what he is.  ::)
Wear your RED POPPY with PRIDE.  Lest we forget. BUY BRITISH.  Support the forces of LAW and ORDER, PAST and PRESENT. Justice for the BRITISH ARMY.

jjmack

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Wear your RED POPPY with PRIDE.  Lest we forget. BUY BRITISH.  Support the forces of LAW and ORDER, PAST and PRESENT. Justice for the BRITISH ARMY.

jjmack

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Re: Ashers bakery, any thoughts.
« Reply #992 on: October 11, 2018, 09:02:31 PM »
Anyone who thought that Ashers were not guilty must be buttoned up the back.  :)

 :D   Where's AL when you need him ?  ::)
Wear your RED POPPY with PRIDE.  Lest we forget. BUY BRITISH.  Support the forces of LAW and ORDER, PAST and PRESENT. Justice for the BRITISH ARMY.

misssmyth1

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Re: Ashers bakery, any thoughts.
« Reply #993 on: October 11, 2018, 09:08:47 PM »
My sincere opinion as stated much earlier in the thread is Ashers had a choice and they decided not  to make the cake . I believe the people involved wanted to make a case /publicity for their organisation.
 I am personally FED UP with minority groups of people pushing their opinions on to me  and If I disagree (what happened to my human rights  ) for goodness sake !  why didn't they just go to another bakery ?   the cost   the stress, the time scale ,ridiculous and now they wish to appeal further just more publicity for them.. i like everyone equally  honestly...I don't care if someone is gay, trans ,paint themselves purple and cover themselves in tattoos just let me have my freedom and 'ill let you have yours   In my life things have not gone my way many times but I found another solution and tried to get on with people ...i find that nowadays the minority expects us all to comply.  we can agree to disagree but hopefully without being sued for  goodness sake. whatever happened to freedom of choice   They chose to be gay or whatever ..I choose to be me... with my opinions, usually kept to myself    unless threatened . I am despairing of this expectation  of do as I want or else !!!!   That's  how world wars were started GOOD FOR ASHERS....congratulations . live and let live for  goodness sake . stop trying to ruin peoples lives and businesses.because things are not going the way you want them to     what happened to niceness tolerance and the right to say no if we disagree with anything we are not * robots.  yet....

jillyfred

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Re: Ashers bakery, any thoughts.
« Reply #994 on: October 11, 2018, 09:22:04 PM »
Er, no

The judges made their decision on simple common sense.

Unless you subscribe to the notion that anyone should be forced to do what they don't want to do.

I say nobody should, in which case they face the consequences of their chosen lifestyle, for better or worse.

It's a very sad state of affairs when a small family bakery is being used as the social standard.

Over 20m of taxpayers money being used to fight a stitch up job by someone who's gay over a freakin cake.

That's socialism for you.

===
Excellent post stickleback.

jilly


James James

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Re: Ashers bakery, any thoughts.
« Reply #996 on: October 15, 2018, 04:14:35 AM »
I always thought you were an intelligent guy. Although I often disagree with you, you usually have good points to make.

However, I can't understand why you still have problems accepting the ruling which states that it was not the person who was discriminated against, but their message they wanted printed on their cake.
The McArthurs have also stated that Mr Lee will be welcome back in their shop any time.
Yes, exactly,... and that and this, is why I believe that the legal basis and reasons for the ruling were flawed and potentially damaging to society and the freedom of expression of political views.

The real issue of the case was incidental to the fact of the customer being gay.

Nor was the  bakers right to freedom of religious belief and practice being restricted, because they were acting in a secular capacity, and it is not the purpose or function of British law and British courts, to impose practices that result from someone's religious beliefs and customs, on anyone else.

In effect, the ruling has legalised discrimination against the freedom of expression of political beliefs,... and has allowed religious beliefs, to be  used as a legal justification for doing that.

http://www.belfastforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,60114.msg2039006.html#msg2039006

http://www.belfastforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,74149.msg2076364.html#msg2076364

http://www.belfastforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,74149.msg2076561.html#msg2076561

James James

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Re: Ashers bakery, any thoughts.
« Reply #997 on: October 15, 2018, 05:00:32 AM »
Most of the support that has been expressed for the bakers, wasn't really about the issues of the case, it was mainly about and motivated by people's aversion to homosexuality, and the case was seen, and used as, an opportunity to express personal criticism about homosexuality.

That has been reinforced by the false assertion that the bakers were being deliberately victimised.

If this case hadn't been about a gay issue, and had instead been for example, about a Christian baker that had refused an order for a cake that was celebrating a Jewish religious event, or vice versa, because that event conflicted with the bakers religious beliefs,... would the support for the bakers have been as vehement and vociferous. ?

I suspect not.

jjmack

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Re: Ashers bakery, any thoughts.
« Reply #998 on: October 15, 2018, 05:53:14 AM »
Why could 'Mr.' Lee not have used a 'gay' bakery which I am sure would have not only welcomed his order but fully supported the message he sought on it. The fact that he chose a Christian bakery quite frankly stinks. It was clearly a set up which for Lee and his cohorts has backfired badly. I believe public opinion, support and sympathy was always with Ashers. It appears of no consequence who or what businesses they destroy or harm in their pursuit of their flawed logic.
Shame on them I say. BTW it would appear that Ashers trade has quadrupled since this silly case came into the public spotlight.   ::)
Wear your RED POPPY with PRIDE.  Lest we forget. BUY BRITISH.  Support the forces of LAW and ORDER, PAST and PRESENT. Justice for the BRITISH ARMY.

stickleback

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Re: Ashers bakery, any thoughts.
« Reply #999 on: October 15, 2018, 06:12:33 PM »
My sincere opinion as stated much earlier in the thread is Ashers had a choice and they decided not  to make the cake . I believe the people involved wanted to make a case /publicity for their organisation.
 I am personally FED UP with minority groups of people pushing their opinions on to me  and If I disagree (what happened to my human rights  ) for goodness sake !  why didn't they just go to another bakery ?   the cost   the stress, the time scale ,ridiculous and now they wish to appeal further just more publicity for them.. i like everyone equally  honestly...I don't care if someone is gay, trans ,paint themselves purple and cover themselves in tattoos just let me have my freedom and 'ill let you have yours  In my life things have not gone my way many times but I found another solution and tried to get on with people ...i find that nowadays the minority expects us all to comply.  we can agree to disagree but hopefully without being sued for  goodness sake. whatever happened to freedom of choice   They chose to be gay or whatever ..I choose to be me... with my opinions, usually kept to myself    unless threatened . I am despairing of this expectation  of do as I want or else !!!!   That's  how world wars were started GOOD FOR ASHERS....congratulations . live and let live for  goodness sake . stop trying to ruin peoples lives and businesses.because things are not going the way you want them to     what happened to niceness tolerance and the right to say no if we disagree with anything we are not * robots.  yet....

Excellent! Nail on the head, Missy.  ;)

welder

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Re: Ashers bakery, any thoughts.
« Reply #1000 on: September 09, 2019, 12:01:56 PM »


Is Judge Judith Schielen also a Rabbi ?
If the fates decree you're going to lose give them a damn good fight...