Author Topic: HALL Family, John Hall 1850-1946, Cliftonville Road  (Read 6435 times)

KarenAcrossThePond

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 17
HALL Family, John Hall 1850-1946, Cliftonville Road
« on: April 19, 2015, 05:08:54 AM »


Hello everyone! A wonderful person named Frank from ancestry.com suggested that I post to this forum. Thank you so much for reading this!

I am hoping that someone might be able to provide me with some information/photos/stories/ANYTHING regarding the Hall Family who resided at Thorndene, 220 Cliftonville Road from 1911 - ?

The family head was John H. Hall, born in 1850 and passed away September 14, 1946. He married Catherine McCabe about 1877-1879 (she passed away in 1931).

Their children were:

Roseanna or Roseanne, John Joseph, Agnes, Frances (Fanny), William Francis (who passed away in WWI), Joseph, Patrick (who moved to the U.S.), Gerald Anthony (who moved to Canada), Mary Catherine (or Mary Kathleen), Malachy Michael and Robert Sarto.

I am searching also for as much information as I can find about my beloved grandfather's (Gerald Anthony) first wife, Maisie (or May) Hall (nee Fowler.) They were married in August 1925 and resided at 41 Walmer Street.

Malachy Michael first married Kathleen (Kay) Gibson who passed away, and later married a woman named Imelda. I believe their home was in Holywood.

Robert Sarto married a woman named Alice, and I am hoping that Sarto's two children, Katherine and John, might read this so that I can get in touch with them.

John Hall was a "Linen Merchant", and I know that at one time someone in the family owned/ran a shop in Queens Arc called "Halls Celtic & Unique Gifts."

John Hall was my great-grandfather, and Catherine McCabe my great-grandmother ... I would love to find out who their parents were too!

I have found amazing information at GRONI and PRONI (thank you so much, Frank), but hoping for any help that might lead me to discover more about our family.

Thank you so very much for "listening" to my long-winded post!

Have a great day!


CMcG

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9728
If there are any images posted above that are important to you, take your own copy - I cannot guarantee they will appear indefinitely.

valkerr

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1029
Re: HALL Family, John Hall 1850-1946, Cliftonville Road
« Reply #2 on: April 19, 2015, 09:08:03 AM »
I can't find the marriage, should be around 1877, neither Hall/McCabe nor Hall/Catherine , I can find the births of the children, but no marriage?

CMcG

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9728
Re: HALL Family, John Hall 1850-1946, Cliftonville Road
« Reply #3 on: April 19, 2015, 09:17:26 AM »

I am searching also for as much information as I can find about my beloved grandfather's (Gerald Anthony) first wife, Maisie (or May) Hall (nee Fowler.) They were married in August 1925 and resided at 41 Walmer Street.


I imagine there's lots of stuff you've got already, eg. John Hall's will on PRONI, etc. - perhaps you can let us know what you need.

Like Valkerr, struggling with the marriage for the moment, but here is Maisie Fowler in 1911:

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Down/Ormeau/Walmer_Street/218035/
If there are any images posted above that are important to you, take your own copy - I cannot guarantee they will appear indefinitely.

CMcG

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9728
Re: HALL Family, John Hall 1850-1946, Cliftonville Road
« Reply #4 on: April 19, 2015, 09:45:59 AM »

Malachy Michael first married Kathleen (Kay) Gibson who passed away, and later married a woman named Imelda. I believe their home was in Holywood.


Just a possibility (Imelda McLoughlin):

http://www.passedaway.com/notice/imelda_hall/5576/
If there are any images posted above that are important to you, take your own copy - I cannot guarantee they will appear indefinitely.

CMcG

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9728
Re: HALL Family, John Hall 1850-1946, Cliftonville Road
« Reply #5 on: April 19, 2015, 11:09:36 AM »

... here is Maisie Fowler in 1911 ...


My best guess for the moment is a GRONI birth for a May Fowler who was born on 18 February 1906, the mother's maiden name was "Smyth" and the birth was registered in Belfast. A Robert Fowler married a Mary Smith in St Jude's Church of Ireland Belfast on 30 October 1904, at the time of marriage he was a labourer, his father was called James Fowler and her father was called Robert Smith, critically, the marriage address for both was Walmer Street, albeit transcribed as no. 43.

The 1907 and 1910 Belfast street directories, courtesy of the Lennon Wylie website, confirm the following for Walmer Street:

41. Fowler, Robert, labourer

Robert died on 8 March 1910, the given address was 41 Walmer Street.
If there are any images posted above that are important to you, take your own copy - I cannot guarantee they will appear indefinitely.

KarenAcrossThePond

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 17
Re: HALL Family, John Hall 1850-1946, Cliftonville Road
« Reply #6 on: April 19, 2015, 07:11:07 PM »
Dear CMcG and valkerr ... I can see why you are both "hero members!!"

I can't thank you enough for taking the time to post all this information for me ... I am ever so grateful!

I have found both the 1901 and 1911 census, Belfast Street Directories, Lennon Wylie, GRONI and PRONI to be very helpful as well.

And I do believe that the notice of Imelda Hall is the Imelda I was hoping to find.

I am wondering, though, because of the restrictions at GRONI (i.e. only births over 100 years old, etc.) if there are other places to search for birth/death/marriage records? For example, I believe that Malachy Hall passed away in 1980, but I am unable to search for his death at GRONI ... anywhere else I could search (have tried so many Internet searches.)

I, too, was unable to find a marriage for John Hall/Catherine McCabe through searches at GRONI.

Also, it was my understanding that Maisie (May) Fowler, born to Robert Fowler and Mary Smyth on February 18, 1906, passed away about 1935, however, a search of the GRONI records using various names produced no information about Maisie. She still resided at 41 Walmer Street in 1932 (according to the 1932 BSD). I know that Gerald Hall and Maisie had a daughter, Geraldine, in May 1926, but because of the GRONI 100 year restriction, I am unable to find a record of Geraldine's birth. (I was able to find Gerald and Maisie's marriage certificate at GRONI.)

I am deeply touched, CMcG and valkerr, that you have been so generous with your time and your help. If there is any way that I can help you out with your searches in Canada, or specifically the Toronto, Ontario area, please let me know.

With my warmest thanks,
Karen


Fadge

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 143
Re: HALL Family, John Hall 1850-1946, Cliftonville Road
« Reply #7 on: April 19, 2015, 07:27:17 PM »
Hi Karen. What did I tell you!!!. Great responses to your query already.
John and Kathleen both were born in Belfast yet their marriage in 1877 approx is not on GRONI.
Would they have married outside N Ireland? Dare I suggest that they were not married because of the religious thing? Cant think of any other reason why the marriage would not be on GRONI.
The Imelda Hall burial in Redburn Cemetery may point to the possible site of your Great grandfather's grave, which I had not heard of till CMcG posted.
Fadge
   

KarenAcrossThePond

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 17
Re: HALL Family, John Hall 1850-1946, Cliftonville Road
« Reply #8 on: April 19, 2015, 08:39:04 PM »
Hiiiiiiii, Fadge!!!!

You were certainly correct about the Belfast Forum, as you have been with SO MUCH other fantastic information ... can't thank you enough, Frank!

Perhaps, as you suggest, they were not actually married, although I will keep searching. I know that my grandfather, Gerald Anthony Hall and Maisie (May) Fowler were married at the Registrar's office in 1925 (found the record as you suggested at GRONI), and I have a feeling that the reason they weren't married in an RC church was because Gerald was RC, and Maisie was Anglican (Church of Ireland), which I suppose would not have gone over very well in 1925?

I guess if someone was born in 1926, and that record is not yet available on GRONI because of the 100 year rule, there wouldn't be anywhere else I could search for a birth record?

I thank you immensely, Fadge, CMcG and valkerr for adding so much helpful information and advice to my search for our family's roots.

With my warmest thanks, Karen

Fadge

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 143
Re: HALL Family, John Hall 1850-1946, Cliftonville Road
« Reply #9 on: April 19, 2015, 08:53:05 PM »
Karen. Sorry I may have been out of line on my last post.
Non-Catholic marriages were recorded from 1845 but Catholic marriages only from 1864 I think.
Back to the search
Fadge

KarenAcrossThePond

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 17
Re: HALL Family, John Hall 1850-1946, Cliftonville Road
« Reply #10 on: April 19, 2015, 09:01:36 PM »
Oh, heavens, Fadge, you were not out of line at all!!! Any suggestion at all is most gratefully appreciated!!

CMcG

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9728
Re: HALL Family, John Hall 1850-1946, Cliftonville Road
« Reply #11 on: April 20, 2015, 04:44:50 AM »
A bit more speculative, but Robert Fowler's reported age at the time of his death was 37, father James was stated to be a labourer.  The closest possibility I can find for now is a Belfast registered birth for a Robert Fowler born on 20 February 1870 to James Fowler (father also called James Fowler) and Isabella Short (father called Robert Short), who got married in St. Anne's Church of Ireland Belfast on 4 December 1866.  Here is James Fowler and family in 1901, albeit with subsequent wife Sarah Jane Ramsey who he married in 1897:

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Antrim/St__George_s_Ward_Belfast/Clementine_Street/954926/

Probably only worth noting, until you can rule in or out.
If there are any images posted above that are important to you, take your own copy - I cannot guarantee they will appear indefinitely.

CMcG

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9728
Re: HALL Family, John Hall 1850-1946, Cliftonville Road
« Reply #12 on: April 20, 2015, 05:41:58 AM »
While there may not be a civil record for the marriage of John Hall and Catherine McCabe (I've come across this before), I strongly suspect the following church record has simply been mistranscribed.

The Ulster Historical Foundation has a marriage record for a John Ball and Catherine McCabe, it took place on 23 October 1878 in St. Malachy's RC Church Belfast, Edmund Hassett carried out the service, the witnesses were John Close and Ann Briggs.

Unfortunately that is all the record shows, no other details.
 
If there are any images posted above that are important to you, take your own copy - I cannot guarantee they will appear indefinitely.

CMcG

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9728
Re: HALL Family, John Hall 1850-1946, Cliftonville Road
« Reply #13 on: April 20, 2015, 05:59:50 AM »

... The Imelda Hall burial in Redburn Cemetery may point to the possible site of your Great grandfather's grave ...
 

I don't know if accurate or not, but a poster to another thread on this forum has said that burials didn't start there (in Redburn Cemetery) until 1953.
If there are any images posted above that are important to you, take your own copy - I cannot guarantee they will appear indefinitely.

CMcG

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9728
Re: HALL Family, John Hall 1850-1946, Cliftonville Road
« Reply #14 on: April 20, 2015, 01:53:28 PM »
Not sure what you have or haven't seen, so just posting in case:

Hall Patrick James of 221 Rapin Place Buffalo county of Erie State of New York United States of America painter died 25 November 1944 at Emergency Hospital Buffalo Administration Int. (limited) Belfast 16 May to Robert Sarto Hall linen merchant. Effects 450.

PRONI Will Calendars
If there are any images posted above that are important to you, take your own copy - I cannot guarantee they will appear indefinitely.