Author Topic: HALL Family, John Hall 1850-1946, Cliftonville Road  (Read 6416 times)

CMcG

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Re: HALL Family, John Hall 1850-1946, Cliftonville Road
« Reply #15 on: April 20, 2015, 02:14:00 PM »
Just looking at 29 year old John Hall (son of John Hall and Catherine McCabe) in the 1911 census return, described as a "Litho Printer".  There is a John Joseph Hall described as a "Lithographer" from Cliftonville Road who married a Nellie McCourt in St. Malachy's on 11 July 1915, does that fit with your knowledge? PRONI has the following will calendar entries:

Date of Grant 1 December 1937
Hall John Joseph of 5 College Place North Belfast lithographic printer died 21 September 1937 Administration Belfast 1 December to Nellie Hall the widow. Effects 64 17s. 8d. REVOKED & CANCELLED 5.10.44

Date of Grant 17 October 1944
Hall John Joseph of 5 College Place North Belfast lithographic printer died 21 September 1937 Probate Belfast 17 October to John Hall retired merchant. Effects 64 17s. 8d.

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KarenAcrossThePond

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Re: HALL Family, John Hall 1850-1946, Cliftonville Road
« Reply #16 on: April 20, 2015, 09:55:24 PM »
Hello there CMcG!

Yes, thank you so very, very much!! My goodness, you are a terrific sleuth!!

Have you any clue as to why the effects of a will left to his widow would have been revoked and cancelled, and then later granted to his father?

I see that you have left me even more information ... I am going to read that post now.

I'm am extremely grateful for all of your help!

With my warm well wishes,
Karen

KarenAcrossThePond

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Re: HALL Family, John Hall 1850-1946, Cliftonville Road
« Reply #17 on: April 20, 2015, 10:02:10 PM »
Oh my goodness!!

I simply can't BELIEVE what you have uncovered, CMcG, and I can't thank you enough!!

I have been searching and searching and searching for Patrick Hall's death records in New York state, as I knew that he made his home there, and I haven't had any success ... you are a TREASURE!!

And all the information about Robert Fowler will be great for me to check out.

I am heading out now, and can't WAIT to get home to re-read all that you have posted ... you have pointed me in so many new and fascinating directions.

My very best to you,
Karen

KarenAcrossThePond

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Re: HALL Family, John Hall 1850-1946, Cliftonville Road
« Reply #18 on: April 21, 2015, 05:48:53 AM »
Hello CMcG!

I went to the Ulster Historical Foundation and looked up the record that you told me about regarding the John Ball marriage to Catherine McCabe on 23/10/1878, and I am so happy that you told me about it. I didn't know about the Ulster Historical Foundation.

I do believe that you are absolutely correct that this is the marriage for my great-grandparents, John Hall and Catherine McCabe, and that it was perhaps transcribed incorrectly, because I also looked up their children's birth/baptism records at the same site (even though I had their birth records from GRONI), and all of their children were baptized in the same Church/Parish, the first few children baptized by the same Rev. E. Hassett.

I also knew that John and Catherine had 13 children, and that two had passed away very near to birth, but was unable to find those two children's records at GRONI, but I did find them at the Ulster Historical Foundation.

And I think that perhaps I was able to find my great-grandmother's (Catherine McCabe) birth record at UHF, which I wasn't able to find at GRONI ... I found a record of birth for a Catherine McCabe on 25/10/1860, father James McCabe, mother Rosanna McCann ... what makes me think that this could be my great-grandmother is that John's and Catherine's first child was named Rosanna, Roseanna, or Rose Anne, always differing depending upon the record I've found, and also the witness to many of their children's baptisms was a Rose Anne McCabe. I know that doesn't make things 100% certain, but a very good possibility, I think!

Now I have more wonderful information to look into tomorrow from your marvellous posts to me ...

Once again, can't thank you enough ... all of this has meant the world to me!

Have a great day!


KarenAcrossThePond

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Re: HALL Family, John Hall 1850-1946, Cliftonville Road
« Reply #19 on: April 22, 2015, 12:03:59 AM »
Hello again CMcG!

I just wanted to let you know that the PRONI information that you told me about Patrick Hall checked out perfectly. I had been searching and searching the Buffalo, New York, USA death registers and couldn't find a single reference for Patrick Hall ... I am so grateful that you found the PRONI information for him.

Once again, thank you so much for everything!

My best to you,
Karen

CMcG

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Re: HALL Family, John Hall 1850-1946, Cliftonville Road
« Reply #20 on: April 22, 2015, 06:24:36 AM »
William Francis:

http://ourheroes.southdublinlibraries.ie/node/17328

Father's name John Hall Esq. and the address 12 College Street are written at the bottom of his medal card, which ties in perfectly, you've maybe seen the above link and medal card detail before.

But... here's the curious thing, read the headstone at the bottom of this link, is this opening up another generation and heading Armagh direction - I don't know what to make of this:

http://www.historyfromheadstones.com/index.php?id=522&page=565&prevStartQuery=2820&theme=Infant&Send=Send
 
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CMcG

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Re: HALL Family, John Hall 1850-1946, Cliftonville Road
« Reply #21 on: April 22, 2015, 06:50:12 AM »
There are several 1901 census candidates for the John Hall who died in 1902 aged 82, this is a possibility:

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Antrim/Falls_Ward/Iris_Street/980491/

GRONI online has his death record, also the 1877 death record for wife Anne.

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CMcG

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Re: HALL Family, John Hall 1850-1946, Cliftonville Road
« Reply #22 on: April 22, 2015, 09:20:03 AM »
There are a John Hall and Anne McShane who are of potential interest in relation to the gravestone inscription previously posted, I can see a number of RC baptisms for their children, including Margaret 1848, Ellen 1854 (Ellenor?) and Mary 1852. All Hannahstown Rock and Derriaghy.
 
Just a possibility at this stage.
 
And a John baptised 1850 to those parents in the same area ... I wonder...?
 
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CMcG

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Re: HALL Family, John Hall 1850-1946, Cliftonville Road
« Reply #23 on: April 22, 2015, 01:40:46 PM »

There are several 1901 census candidates for the John Hall who died in 1902 aged 82, this is a possibility:

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Antrim/Falls_Ward/Iris_Street/980491/

GRONI online has his death record, also the 1877 death record for wife Anne.


This 1901 return relates to an Ann Jane Hall (father John) who married Robert Nelson in Seapatrick County Down on 20 September 1864, GRONI online has the marriage record.
 
Still don't know why (in terms of relationship) the Armagh gravestone commemorates "W F Hall, killed in action at Belgium 7th Oct 1917, aged 25 years Requiescant in pace.", tempting to think that John Hall died 1902 and wife Anne (possibly McShane, but still not proven) died 1877 are parents of John who married Catherine McCabe.  However, there is nothing else to corroborate at this point, so at the risk of expense, it may be necessary to look at the GRONI online records.
 
 
 
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CMcG

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Re: HALL Family, John Hall 1850-1946, Cliftonville Road
« Reply #24 on: April 22, 2015, 02:07:05 PM »
Here's the actual headstone:
 
http://www.discovereverafter.com/plot/28036
 
 
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CMcG

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Re: HALL Family, John Hall 1850-1946, Cliftonville Road
« Reply #25 on: April 22, 2015, 06:05:16 PM »
The death record for Ann Hall (reported age 65) who died on 7 March 1877 shows that she was the wife of John Hall, a linen lapper, the address was 28 Hamilton Street.

Sure enough, the 1877 Belfast street directory, courtesy of the Lennon Wylie website, has the following entry for Hamilton Street:

28 & 26. Hall, John, handkerchief manufacturer
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KarenAcrossThePond

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Re: HALL Family, John Hall 1850-1946, Cliftonville Road
« Reply #26 on: April 22, 2015, 06:15:16 PM »
Oh my goodness, CMcG, I am absolutely amazed by all you have been able to uncover ... thank you, THANK YOU!!!

This John and Ann Hall MUST be my Great Grandfather, John Hall's, parents (and siblings).

The Mary and James, grandchildren of the John Hall you have discovered did pass away so young ... (from the GRONI records), Mary passed away less than a year from bronchitis, and James, I believe (although not certain yet), passed away at age 5 from some kind of accidental injury.

And Lieutenant William Francis Hall died in Passchendaele in 1917.

I haven't absorbed all that you have discovered yet, CMcG ... I am off to review everything again ... I just wanted to write a quick note to you to share my delighted amazement and express my greatest appreciation to you ...

My very best to you,
Karen


CMcG

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Re: HALL Family, John Hall 1850-1946, Cliftonville Road
« Reply #27 on: April 22, 2015, 07:05:36 PM »
The Belfast Newsletter of Friday 4 May 1877 carries an ad under "HOUSES TO BE LET" for the following:

Nos. 24 and 26, Hamilton Street, 6 Rooms ...  Rent 20

Since Ann Hall died on 7 March 1877, this just might suggest that husband John moved on.

On another tack, it might be worth building up a "chronology" of addresses from what you have established from the Lennon Wylie website, the PRONI street directories and other sources, for example, where John Hall and Catherine McCabe lived (eg. 25 Gloucester Street for most of the 1890s, Joy Street in the 1901 census, etc).
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CMcG

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Re: HALL Family, John Hall 1850-1946, Cliftonville Road
« Reply #28 on: April 23, 2015, 06:11:29 AM »
Found burial records in Shankill Parish, Armagh for the following :

10 March 1877, Anne Hall, Belfast, Roman Catholic, aged 68 years.

29 January 1872, Ellen Hall, Roman Catholic, aged 17 years, died in Belfast.

At least this confirms that Ellenor was a.k.a. Ellen and keeps open the possibility of a link to the RC baptism of Ellen Hall with parents John Hall / Anne McShane in the parish of Hannahstown Rock & Derriaghy, just to the south west of Belfast.
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CMcG

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Re: HALL Family, John Hall 1850-1946, Cliftonville Road
« Reply #29 on: April 23, 2015, 06:30:33 AM »
Here's another thing.  The same Dougher RC graveyard headstone is shown in the "findagrave" website, critically, the entries for Ellenor and Margaret include baptism dates for Ellen and Margaret, daughters of John Hall and Anne McShane.  So someone else, somewhere, is making the same assumption.

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=138908000

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=138908175
 
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