Author Topic: FAMILY ELDER - OLD ARDOYNE FIRE STATION  (Read 5708 times)

CMcG

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Re: FAMILY ELDER - OLD ARDOYNE FIRE STATION
« Reply #15 on: September 29, 2015, 05:02:30 AM »
In the marriage record of 1931, Thomas Dumican who married Rebecca Elder is described as living at 34 Rutherglen Street Belfast, his father is recorded as Hugh Dumican, a manufacturer.  The 1932 Belfast street directory, courtesy of the Lennon Wylie website, shows the following entry for Rutherglen Street:

34. Domican, Hugh, trunk maker

Given this information (including the unusual occupation), this would appear to be Thomas and his parents Hugh Dumican and Ann Cochrane and siblings in 1911:

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Antrim/Falls/Salisbury_Drive/174446/


CMcG

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Re: FAMILY ELDER - OLD ARDOYNE FIRE STATION
« Reply #16 on: September 29, 2015, 05:51:18 AM »
From the 1918 Belfast street directory, courtesy of the Lennon Wylie website, the following entry for Chichester Street:

Belfast Corporation Fire Brigade Station - George Smith, superintendent; assistant superintendent, James Stafford
List of Officers and Men Living in Above Yard
1. Armstrong, Jas., engineer
2. McCormick, Geo., fireman
3. Bowden, Isaac, fireman
4. Rollins, Wm., turncock
5. Donnelly, Patk., fireman
6. Martin, W., motor mechanic
7. Small, Thos., fireman
8. Moore, Robt., fireman
9. Banbury, Jos., engineer
10. Wallace, Wm., fireman
11. White, Jas., fireman
12. McDonald, H. G., fireman
13. Elder, Samuel, fireman
14. Robinson, Wm. J., engineer
15. McCullough, Wm., fireman
16. Irvine, Geo., turncock
17. Patterson, H., fireman
18. Williams, Saml., fireman
19. Strathdea, E., fireman
20. Cummings, Alex., fireman
21. Waring, Chas., fireman
22. Adair, Brian, fireman
23. Clarke, Wm., fireman
24. Mills, David, fireman
25. Wilson, Herbert, fireman
Single Men's Quarters
Morrison, Geo., fireman
Martin, Robert, fireman
O'Neill, John
McCullough, H.
McCullough, F., fireman

http://www.lennonwylie.co.uk/ccomplete1918_b.htm

Samuel, as previously posted, died in 1918. The next available street directory on that website is 1924, and the following entry is for Crumlin Road:

BELFAST CORPORATION FIRE BRIGADE,
Ardoyne Station - E. Division
LIST OF MEN.
Armstrong, James, engineer
Mills, David, fireman
Thomson, Geo., fireman
Gibson, Jas., fireman
Stevenson, W., fireman
Holmes, W., fireman
8 M'Neil, A., tram cndtr.
9 Glover, S., tram inspctr.
10 Elder, Mrs. A.
Vacant ground

http://www.lennonwylie.co.uk/images/1924BSD/1924strs%200094.jpg

And from the 1932 street directory, this entry for the Crumlin Road:

348. Curry, R. G.
... Woodvale Road intersects
Belfast Corporation Fire Brigade,
Ardoyne Station - E. Division
List of Men
Armstrong, James, engineer
Mills, David, fireman
Thomson, Geo., fireman
Cree, John, fireman
Nelson, David, fireman
Proctor, Alex., fireman
Holmes, Walter, fireman
Morrison, Geo., fireman
8. McNeil, A., tram conductor
9. Glover, S., tram inspector
10. Elder, Mrs. A.
Vacant ground

http://www.lennonwylie.co.uk/ccomplete1932_c.htm


CMcG

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Re: FAMILY ELDER - OLD ARDOYNE FIRE STATION
« Reply #17 on: September 29, 2015, 02:24:02 PM »
As you probably noticed, while I found a "reasonable" possibility for a marriage of the parents of Annie Cracken (who married Samuel Elder in 1995) - ie. William McCracken and Ellen Cassidy - I struggled to find a marriage for the parents of Samuel Elder (James Elder and Rebecca Bailie/Bailey).

The first Irish record for their children is Catherine Anne Elder born 1865.  However, I have noticed a Scottish marriage on 4 August 1863 in Houston and Killellan, Renfrew, Scotland for a James Elder and Rebecca Bailie,  the detail is difficult to decipher and I can't see any specific reference to Ireland, but just to note it for future research.

In that Scottish marriage record, James was recorded as 19 yrs old, he signed with "his X mark" (as the James Elder signed his name in the 1901 census return living at house 1 in Meeting House Lane, Limavady) and parents were given as Thomas Elder (I couldn't make out the occupation - hawker, beetler and many other options present a possibility) and Rebecca (Pirrie? - again, I couldn't decipher). His wife Rebecca Bailie was recorded as 25 yrs old and parents given as John Baillie, farmer and Margaret (McDead (McDaid?)? - again I couldn't decipher - (deceased))?

As I said, just to note until you can rule in or out. Here is an extract showing the parents from that marriage record, purely for deciphering purposes:


CMcG

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Re: FAMILY ELDER - OLD ARDOYNE FIRE STATION
« Reply #18 on: September 29, 2015, 03:18:00 PM »
BTW, when Robert Nelson married Florence Elder in 1931, her age was 24 (which ties in with Florrie Elder in Chichester Street in the 1911 census return). The groom's father was recorded as "David Nelson".

Both their residence at the time of marriage was "Fire Station Ardoyne" and Florence's father was recorded as Samuel Elder, deceased."


CMcG

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Re: FAMILY ELDER - OLD ARDOYNE FIRE STATION
« Reply #19 on: September 30, 2015, 05:04:37 AM »

... and parents were given as Thomas Elder ... and Rebecca (Pirrie? - again, I couldn't decipher)  


The more I think about this, the more I see the possibility that the parents of James Elder who married Rebecca Bailie in Scotland in 1863 were Thomas Elder and Rebecca Perry.  For a start, that would explain why James Elder and  Rebecca Bailie named one of their children (and a sibling to Samuel Elder who married Annie McCracken) James Perry Elder (b. 1880).

In addition, there are references to this wider family on the internet.  With a big healthwarning over the potential inaccuracy of such information that is placed in the public domain, you might want to at least look at it.  For example, the family tree at the link below covers the family, when it gets to James Elder, the son of Thomas Elder and Rebecca Perry, it stops (ie. doesn't provide any more information on his marriage, children etc.).
 
In short, it says that Thomas Elder was born c. 1800 and died on 3 September 1883 in Limavady, Londonderry.  He was married to Rebecca Perry, who was born c. 1809 and died in 1882, also in Limavady. They had a number of sons - Samuel Elder, John Elder, Thomas Perry Elder, and James Elder. While it doesn't have any more information on son James, it does have information on the wives and children of siblings Samuel, John, and Thomas Perry.  You can see that the "Perry" name is passed down through several of the children.

BTW, this link took a while to load for me:

http://www.geni.com/family-tree/index/6000000033126439684

If you google "Thomas Elder" and "Rebecca Perry", you will see several hits coming back, but in truth, the information they contain is all over the place and no-one seems yet to have made the connection from Thomas Elder and Rebecca Perry to their son James Elder who married Rebecca Bailie to their son Samuel Elder who married Annie McCracken.

But at this point, I would be cautiously optimistic that this is Ruby Elder's lineage.


CMcG

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Re: FAMILY ELDER - OLD ARDOYNE FIRE STATION
« Reply #20 on: September 30, 2015, 08:10:52 PM »

BTW, when Robert Nelson married Florence Elder in 1931, her age was 24 (which ties in with Florrie Elder in Chichester Street in the 1911 census return). The groom's father was recorded as "David Nelson".

Both their residence at the time of marriage was "Fire Station Ardoyne" and Florence's father was recorded as Samuel Elder, deceased."


Just realised, this man appeared in the 1932 Belfast street directory entry that I previously posted for the Crumlin Road:

Belfast Corporation Fire Brigade,
Ardoyne Station - E. Division
Nelson, David, fireman



Kateme

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Re: FAMILY ELDER - OLD ARDOYNE FIRE STATION
« Reply #21 on: October 02, 2015, 07:26:55 PM »
Wow CMcG - you've been wonderfully dogged on this - very helpful I'm sure.  Kudos!   :)
“Government’s first duty is to protect the people, not run their lives.”

CMcG

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Re: FAMILY ELDER - OLD ARDOYNE FIRE STATION
« Reply #22 on: October 04, 2015, 03:34:46 AM »
Thank you.  :)

It is satisfying when a lot of the picture suddenly appears, once a certain number of dots have been joined up!

chi

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Re: FAMILY ELDER - OLD ARDOYNE FIRE STATION
« Reply #23 on: October 05, 2015, 12:25:40 AM »

CMcG I  was always
fascinated with that
firehouse. :)

Like kate I could feel
the passion that you
were putting into this
research. :read:

My family in Belfast did
a family research and
I know it can take you
to the most unexpected
places. Oral history helps
if your can connect with
living relatives. :)

“Nobody can hurt me without my permission.”

Don't mistake my silence for ignorance, my calmness for acceptance, or my kindness  for weakness.

CMcG

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Re: FAMILY ELDER - OLD ARDOYNE FIRE STATION
« Reply #24 on: October 05, 2015, 04:14:11 AM »

... I know it can take you
to the most unexpected
places  


Your'e right, every family history has twists and turns and warts and all.  :)


CMcG

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Re: FAMILY ELDER - OLD ARDOYNE FIRE STATION
« Reply #25 on: October 12, 2015, 06:22:09 PM »
Just a bit more on Samuel Elder, the fireman based in Chichester Street Station Belfast, who died on 3 July 1918 at the relatively young age of 44.

He actually died in the station, the cause of death was "influenza" and "pneumonia" and the informant was his daughter (Ellen) Maria Elder.  This circumstance seemed a little unusual until I remembered the year 1918 and the flu pandemic.  Can never be 100% sure, but I would be fairly confident that Samuel died in the first Ulster wave of the so called "Spanish Flu", which infected 500 million people worldwide and killed 50 - 100 million, some 3% to 5% of the world's population.

Some detail about the local effects by Patricia Marsh of the School of History and Anthropology at Queen’s University of Belfast is here:
   
https://www.qub.ac.uk/sites/QUEST/FileStore/Issue6/Filetoupload,146247,en.pdf
   

CMcG

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Re: FAMILY ELDER - OLD ARDOYNE FIRE STATION
« Reply #26 on: October 12, 2015, 06:41:48 PM »

I should also have said that Samuel Elder's wife Annie (McCracken) Elder  who died on 12 March 1941 at 72 Greenore Street Belfast (per the previously posted Belfast City Council burial record) died of senility and myocarditis / heart failure and the informant was her son Samuel Elder.


Lillo Lil

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Re: FAMILY ELDER - OLD ARDOYNE FIRE STATION
« Reply #27 on: November 14, 2015, 10:34:50 PM »
Hi, my maiden name was Elder and my grandad and his family came from Limavady and Ballymena area, x

belfastgirl74

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Re: FAMILY ELDER - OLD ARDOYNE FIRE STATION
« Reply #28 on: November 19, 2015, 09:22:00 PM »
Had a cousin who was an Ardoyne Fireman back when.  He is in his 80's now.
Boy, I sure am a bundle of information.  Very very new to this fantastic site; am living in Canada now but was born in Belfast, and like they say "You can take the girl  out of Belfast,l but you'll never take Belfast out of the girl"

RAE

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Re: FAMILY ELDER - OLD ARDOYNE FIRE STATION
« Reply #29 on: December 09, 2015, 03:53:56 PM »
THE LAST DETAIL LISTING THE NAMES OF THE ELDER FAMILY WOULD IN FACT BE MY GRANDMOTHER RUBY, HER SIBLINGS AN MY GREAT AUNTS AND UNCLES. THE LINK OF EILEEN SEMPLE IS VERY VAGUE BUT THAT JOHN SEMPLE IS BURIED WITH MY ELDER RELATIVES.  ..??