Author Topic: Antrim Road around Alexandra Park Avenue  (Read 7255 times)

CMcG

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Re: Antrim Road around Alexandra Park Avenue
« Reply #30 on: October 11, 2016, 05:14:43 PM »
Speedypost, he is spot on. In the following maps, the Antrim Road is running up-down on the left and Alexandra Park Avenue is to the top.  In the 1901-1902 map, the house called Mossville is situated right on the corner of both, in it's 1 acre of garden.  Post 1935, all of the right hand side of its garden and half of its rear garden has been given up (and the rear of the neighbouring garden also) to allow the cinema (with area to the rear) to be erected right beside Mossville.


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stiofan

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Re: Antrim Road around Alexandra Park Avenue
« Reply #31 on: October 12, 2016, 04:13:07 AM »
My (86 year old) mother grew up in Castleton Gardens. Here's her contribution:

* The Currans' house next to the Capitol was blitzed, and was demolished after the war.

* The Currans who lived opposite Baltic Ave weren't the owners of the Capitol, but were related to them.

I see that someone has mentioned Mr Scott. Was that the same Mr Scott who owned the chemist shop in the wee block of shops at the corner of the Antrim Road and Camberwell Terrace?

And here's a question of mine. Beside the those shops is a vacant lot. On Google maps, it has a large hoarding around it. When I was a kid (1960s), the site looked like overgrown building foundations. I was told that it was the remains of a house that had been blitzed. Now my mother and her older sister tell me that I've dreamt the whole thing up, and there never was a building there and certainly not one that was blitzed. Can anyone here settle the argument?

James James

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Re: Antrim Road around Alexandra Park Avenue
« Reply #32 on: October 12, 2016, 04:45:59 AM »
If you're talking about the shops near the cinema, then yes, there was a large area of vacant ground in that area in 1960, but it won't do you any good to be able to prove that, because mother is always right.

1960 Vacant. Take a look around 425 to 469 Antrim Road, which is adjacent to the cash and carry.
http://www.lennonwylie.co.uk/images/1960BSD/1960strs%200016.jpg

1951 Also vacant.
http://www.lennonwylie.co.uk/acomplete1951_2.htm

1943 Also vacant.
http://www.lennonwylie.co.uk/acomplete1943_2.htm

1932 Not vacant, except for numbers 419 and 429 which were vacant.
http://www.lennonwylie.co.uk/acomplete1932_2.htm

stiofan

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Re: Antrim Road around Alexandra Park Avenue
« Reply #33 on: October 12, 2016, 05:12:52 AM »
If you're talking about the shops near the cinema, then yes, there was a large area of vacant ground in that area in 1960, but it won't do you any good to be able to prove that, because mother is always right.

1960 Vacant. Take a look around 425 to 469 Antrim Road, which is adjacent to the cash and carry.
http://www.lennonwylie.co.uk/images/1960BSD/1960strs%200016.jpg

1951 Also vacant.
http://www.lennonwylie.co.uk/acomplete1951_2.htm

1943 Also vacant.
http://www.lennonwylie.co.uk/acomplete1943_2.htm

1932 Not vacant, except for numbers 419 and 429 which were vacant.
http://www.lennonwylie.co.uk/acomplete1932_2.htm
JamesJames, thanks very much for that! I'm actually talking about the shops at corner of Camberwell Terrace and the Antrim Road. Those street directories show that the sweet shop (which is the last shop on the block) has the numbers 351-353. Presumably 351 is the vacant lot and 353 is the sweetshop.

James James

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Re: Antrim Road around Alexandra Park Avenue
« Reply #34 on: October 12, 2016, 05:44:08 AM »
Nope, 351 to 353 Antrim Road both being odd numbers were two adjacent premises and they were both confectioners owned by the same proprietor and neither address was vacant. In the block between the junction of Antrim Road and Camberwell Terrace and the junction of Antrim Road and Alexandra Park Avenue on that side of Antrim Road the only vacant address was 393 to 395 and 403 which was a car park beside the cinema.
http://www.lennonwylie.co.uk/images/1960BSD/1960strs%200016.jpg

stiofan

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Re: Antrim Road around Alexandra Park Avenue
« Reply #35 on: October 12, 2016, 06:31:01 AM »
Nope, 351 to 353 Antrim Road both being odd numbers were two adjacent premises and they were both confectioners owned by the same proprietor and neither address was vacant. In the block between the junction of Antrim Road and Camberwell Terrace and the junction of Antrim Road and Alexandra Park Avenue on that side of Antrim Road the only vacant address was 393 to 395 and 403 which was a car park beside the cinema.
http://www.lennonwylie.co.uk/images/1960BSD/1960strs%200016.jpg
Except that the confectioners (which is now a restaurant) is and was only a single premises, not a double one. There were (and are) only four retail premises in that block. On the Google street view, there's clearly a vacant lot (behind an advertising hoarding) between the confectioners/restaurant and Camberwell Terrace.


CMcG

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Re: Antrim Road around Alexandra Park Avenue
« Reply #36 on: October 12, 2016, 09:10:13 AM »

My (86 year old) mother grew up in Castleton Gardens. Here's her contribution:

* The Currans' house next to the Capitol was blitzed, and was demolished after the war ...


Looks like it, here is the immediate area by the 1950s for comparison, both Mossville and the house next door were gone:



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jimn

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Re: Antrim Road around Alexandra Park Avenue
« Reply #37 on: October 14, 2016, 02:10:29 PM »
If it was the Scott I referred to they were ship repairers. The area at top of Camberwell Terrace was a shoemakers shop. It was tiny and the shoemakers name was Mr Carlin whose family lived at 63 Atlantic Ave. I was always sure the Currans opposite Baltic were the owners of the Capitol as I went to Holy Family School with them. A point of interest the commercial artist who painted the adverts for films in the local cinemas was a Mr McLaverty father of the writer Bernard McLaverty

Dargan

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Re: Antrim Road around Alexandra Park Avenue
« Reply #38 on: October 15, 2016, 10:40:03 AM »
Very interesting thread, I love your enthusiasm for the old times and elegance of this area. If anyone remembers Jim Kelly who had an antique shop in Jubilee Avenue in the late 1980s, he certainly was one of the traders who graced the area in recent years. He was keen to promote a Belfast artist Rene Bickerstaff who painted in the early 20th century.  (I'm saying Jubilee Avenue and hoping that my memory of the streets is sound). Regards, and please keep your thread going.  :)
Cryptic clue time: who wrote 1001 uses of vinegar but forgot chips? It's a war of attrition folks, make no mistake. Keep your thread alive. TF.

Canadianraptor

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Re: Antrim Road around Alexandra Park Avenue
« Reply #39 on: October 15, 2016, 09:57:49 PM »

Nice to see a sister post on the area, I mostly post on the Shore Road thread. Here's an aerial picture of the Alexandra Park area. At the bottom you can see the Mountcollyer brickworks and just above it, Mountcollyer School. Just from them is a nice aerial of Alexandra Park and across the road is Dunmore Stadium. I believe the big White House above the stadium is Dunmore House the home of the Preston family.
Robert



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macroyal

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Re: Antrim Road around Alexandra Park Avenue
« Reply #40 on: October 15, 2016, 10:52:09 PM »
Good picture again Robert, you can see the picture house is not built yet and you can see the houses that are being discussed with the ground including trees , where the cinema was later built and they fit the other close up views  from CMcG in post 30 exactly.

Canadianraptor

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Re: Antrim Road around Alexandra Park Avenue
« Reply #41 on: October 16, 2016, 02:03:36 AM »
Good picture again Robert, you can see the picture house is not built yet and you can see the houses that are being discussed with the ground including trees , where the cinema was later built and they fit the other close up views  from CMcG in post 30 exactly.

Thanks Keith,
You are correct, here's an earlier picture of the Capitol just before it opened, you can even see the ladders and the workmen putting the final touches to it!



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Canadianraptor

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Re: Antrim Road around Alexandra Park Avenue
« Reply #42 on: October 16, 2016, 02:07:11 AM »
Staff rolling the Bowling Greens at Alexandra Park.



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CMcG

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Re: Antrim Road around Alexandra Park Avenue
« Reply #43 on: October 16, 2016, 08:42:07 PM »
The map sheet below, from the period 1952-1965 (with the Antrim Road running up-down on the left and the Limestone Road and Camberwell Terrace meeting it from the bottom right corner), shows the building footprint covering the corner of Camberwell Terrace and Antrim Road, if you compare it to a google satellite view today, you can identify the outline of the missing buildings in the vacant area (ie. behind the hoarding).



The block of 5 3-storey houses that remains to this day on the corner of Camberwell Terrace and Castleton Gardens is easy to identify in old street directories and the 1901 and 1911 censuses and makes a good reference point.  Walking therefore down Camberwell Terrace from the Antrim Road, before coming to those houses, were 2 properties that were listed for directory and census purposes against Camberwell Street / Terrace, those are the missing buildings that met up at the corner with the row of houses on the Antrim Road (the end one of which today is a restaurant). One of the 2 missing properties listed against Camberwell Street / Terrace was probably the shoemaker's shop referred to by 'jimn' at reply #37, the 1960 street directory shows a boot repairer there.

Old street directories and newspaper references up to the 1940s also indicate that the part of the Antrim Road from its intersection with Camberwell Terrace (ie. the row of houses starting with what is today a restaurant) was called Richmond Crescent.

If there are any images posted above that are important to you, take your own copy - I cannot guarantee they will appear indefinitely.

stiofan

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Re: Antrim Road around Alexandra Park Avenue
« Reply #44 on: October 17, 2016, 02:48:21 AM »
The map sheet below, from the period 1952-1965 (with the Antrim Road running up-down on the left and the Limestone Road and Camberwell Terrace meeting it from the bottom right corner), shows the building footprint covering the corner of Camberwell Terrace and Antrim Road, if you compare it to a google satellite view today, you can identify the outline of the missing buildings in the vacant area (ie. behind the hoarding).

The block of 5 3-storey houses that remains to this day on the corner of Camberwell Terrace and Castleton Gardens is easy to identify in old street directories and the 1901 and 1911 censuses and makes a good reference point.  Walking therefore down Camberwell Terrace from the Antrim Road, before coming to those houses, were 2 properties that were listed for directory and census purposes against Camberwell Street / Terrace, those are the missing buildings that met up at the corner with the row of houses on the Antrim Road (the end one of which today is a restaurant). One of the 2 missing properties listed against Camberwell Street / Terrace was probably the shoemaker's shop referred to by 'jimn' at reply #37, the 1960 street directory shows a boot repairer there.

Old street directories and newspaper references up to the 1940s also indicate that the part of the Antrim Road from its intersection with Camberwell Terrace (ie. the row of houses starting with what is today a restaurant) was called Richmond Crescent.
Great work - thanks! My mother, who lived in Castleton from 1935 until 1955, remembers the shoemaker's shop towards the top of Camberwell Terrace ("a wee hole in the wall"). She said that, going down Camberwell Terrace from the Antrim Road, there was a billiard hall (accessed by wooden steps) and the shoemaker. Strangely, she has no recollection of how the billiard hall and shoemaker's became a vacant lot.

My first recollections of the vacant lot are from the very early 60s. So, if the directory is right, and the buildings were still there in 1960, I must be totally wrong in thinking that I was told that they were blitzed!