Nathaniel Beattie Moscow Street

[simon03]

I have been trying to find information about my Great Grandfather Nathaniel Beattie a Master Baker who lived in 52 Moscow Street Shankill Road and died 22/01/1951 aged 72 so he must have been born c. 1879.  I have not been able to find a birth certificate.

I know he married Martha Jane Ireland in St Mary’s Church of Ireland 13/06/1903 with an address 40 Jaffa Street at the time.  The marriage certificate lists my Great Great Grandfather as also having been called Nathaniel Beattie (Pawnbroker).  The certificate does not state that his father was deceased. 

In the 1901 Census there is a Nathaniel Beattie (Baker) living with his mother Hannah Beattie (a widow) and older sister Robertina Alexander Beattie at 3 Charleville Street.   

To support this I can find birth certificates for 2 sisters:- Robertina Alexander 15/01/1873 (see above) and also Margaret Jane 15/07/1881.  These certificates list Hannah as the mother (maiden name Alexander) and Nathaniel Beattie as the father so I am assuming that I must have the right family. 

I have found a death certificate that may be his father also called Nathaniel (see above) (my Great Great Grandfather) 14/05/1899 aged 54 address at 72 Stanhope Street.  However, I have no way of knowing for sure that this is indeed his father.  I have not been able to find the burial record for him.  In another post in this forum I was helped to find Hannah’s grave in the City Cemetery.  I have found it unusual that my Great Great Grandmother and Grandfather would not have been buried together.

I have found a marriage certificate for them (Nathaniel Beattie and Hannah Alexander 17/03/1869) in Rosemary Presbyterian.  This just lists their residence as Belfast.  In the 1901 census Hannah’s birth place is listed as Co. Antrim whereas her children are listed as having been born in Belfast.

I want to find out where exactly my Great Great Grandfather actually came from or indeed if any of the above details are correct.  I have no idea how I can try and go beyond what I have found so far so any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

[CMcG]

You didn't mention daughter Martha, so just to mention her here, she was born in 1870 and married James Leckey Daniel in 1892:

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1870/03363/2233384.pdf

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1892/10648/5879560.pdf

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Antrim/Court_Ward/Hudson_Street/964982/

[CMcG]

... I have found it unusual that my Great Great Grandmother and Grandfather would not have been buried together.

That is far from unusual at all, my own parents are case in point, nothing untoward should be read into it, there are various reasons for that to happen, in my parents case my mother was buried in her family's grave at her childhood 'home' in rural County Down (ancestral grave going back several centuries).

[CMcG]

...I have been trying to find information about my Great Grandfather Nathaniel Beattie a Master Baker who lived in 52 Moscow Street Shankill Road and died 22/01/1951 aged 72 so he must have been born c. 1879.  I have not been able to find a birth certificate.

Just to forewarn that there might not be one.  In the first 15-20 years after civil birth registration was introduced, approximately 10% of urban and 15 % of rural births weren't registered.  Even through to the early 20th C, I have encountered a material number of what can only be concluded as unregistered births.

[CMcG]

... I want to find out where exactly my Great Great Grandfather actually came from or indeed if any of the above details are correct.

Your research looks fundamentally correct in that the Nathaniel Beattie - Hanna Alexander line seems like the right folk. While the name combination Nathaniel Beattie is relatively uncommon, there are several others about who may be related back in the mists of time but who are not your Nathaniel Beattie, eg. there's one up Antrim / Ballymena direction and another in Whiteabbey / Monkstown.  The description of your Nathaniel's occupation seems to vary from pawnbroker / pawnbroker's assistant to clerk to salesman.

[CMcG]

... I have found a death certificate that may be his father also called Nathaniel (see above) (my Great Great Grandfather) 14/05/1899 aged 54 address at 72 Stanhope Street.  However, I have no way of knowing for sure that this is indeed his father. ...

Newspaper reports of the inquest don't offer up any further clues, he was in the best of health and enjoying a drink with a friend in a pub at 78 Stanhope Street when to took ill and died from a major stomach hemorrhage before a doctor could arrive.

There are routine Belfast newspaper reports mentioning a pawnbroker called Nathaniel Beattie in 1862 and a pawnbroker called Nathaniel Beattie of Durham Street in 1868, but again no clues to assist the genealogy.

[CMcG]

You didn't mention daughter Martha, so just to mention her here, she was born in 1870 and married James Leckey Daniel in 1892:

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1870/03363/2233384.pdf

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1892/10648/5879560.pdf

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Antrim/Court_Ward/Hudson_Street/964982/

Explains the Martha Daniel in the same grave as Hannah Beattie...

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1901/05713/4611883.pdf

https://ssl.belfastcity.gov.uk/burialsearch/BurialSearch.aspx?GraveSection=I1&GraveNumber=442&CemeteryName=City%20Cemetery

[simon03]

Many thanks CMcG for the info - especially about Martha Beattie - I had looked and looked for other siblings but hadn't come across Martha before.

Could you please tell me what newspaper source you found the reference to the inquest please.  It's amazing you have been able to find this info out.

[CMcG]

... Could you please tell me what newspaper source you found the reference to the inquest please ...

Irish News and Belfast Morning News, 16 May 1899:

[belle]

I love reading about other peoples family history! It's so interesting.

Just as an aside my father was born and raised in Stanhope Street!

[CMcG]

I love reading about other peoples family history! It's so interesting.

Just as an aside my father was born and raised in Stanhope Street!

Same here Belle, it's amazing how much information can be readily found out, for example, regarding the pub at 78 Stanhope Street where this man in the newspaper article died in 1899, the 1901 street directory shows that it was on the corner of Unity Street and Stanhope Street, the 1901 census shows that as a  pub it was naturally bigger than surrounding houses, with 9 rooms and 7 windows, the publican in 1901 was a County Louth born man called Patrick McCreesh, living in with him was his assistant - a Fermanagh man called Charles McDermott - and a servant from County Antrim called Margaret Walsh, such variety of people thrown together, hard times though. 

[belle]

I'm always surprised by how people managed to get by in life.  but, then I also think they thought their lives were 'normal' even the children with no shoes! I think people were more likely to rub along together then.

My granda, my dads dad, was from Louth. He came to live in Belfast with my great granny, when he came to Belfast he couldn't speak English. Irish was his first language.

[CMcG]

I agree Belle, children today expect their own bedroom or to share with another at a pinch, back then a family often had to share a room.  BTW, I meet people to this day who can't speak English and they've lived here all their life, lucky if you get a grunt out of them lol. 

[CMcG]

simon03, I'm afraid I haven't found any more on Nathaniel Beattie, I thought the uncommon name combination might have produced something, but no dice, hopefully other folk with fresh eyes will come up trumps.

[belle]

I agree Belle, children today expect their own bedroom or to share with another at a pinch, back then a family often had to share a room.  BTW, I meet people to this day who can't speak English and they've lived here all their life, lucky if you get a grunt out of them lol.