Author Topic: Northern Ireland's future at risk without post-Brexit customs deal, says Hain  (Read 60765 times)



Billy Fish

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Remember the bravery and deeds of the Men & Women of the USC, RUC, RUC Reserve, the UDR, PSNI, but most of all the British Army.

James James

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James James

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Re: Northern Ireland's future at risk without post-Brexit customs deal, says Hain
« Reply #1309 on: November 30, 2019, 06:22:38 PM »
Nuts
Now,... even though he might be a bit controversial, that's no way to talk about the British  P.M.. !

GandT

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Re: Northern Ireland's future at risk without post-Brexit customs deal, says Hain
« Reply #1310 on: December 01, 2019, 01:55:01 PM »
Another little catch phrase often used is "there is no heirarchy of victims". So that means then that two little womem enjoying an Americona in the Abercon Cafe or a couple of retired joiners in Greysteel enjoying a pint just before they die is the same as an armed terrorist being shot dead by the SAS. I don't think so.
As they say on tv sometimes "you do the maths"
regards Cookstown

Was there a 'hierarchy of law and order'? If we assume that the 'armed terrorists' on both sides were those operating outside of the allegedly honourable and civilised standards of 'law and order' then it is to be expected that those who 'upheld' and acted upon the civilised standards of the 'law' would not consciously or unconsciously deviate from that law.

It is also necessary that whatever government, law, justice systems, courts, policing and security mechanisms existed prior to and during the conflict were already fair, honourable, unbiased and non-discriminatory in overall operation. I don't think any serious historian, political commentator, media broadcasts would suggest this was the case in a very badly run state without possibility of a participatory democracy for a huge swathe of its inhabitants.

You 'do the math' on all of this and then pontificate on 'hierarchies' of anything!

CMcG

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Re: Northern Ireland's future at risk without post-Brexit customs deal, says Hain
« Reply #1311 on: December 01, 2019, 04:49:34 PM »

At no stage - in this post or in any other - have I attempted to JUSTIFY any campaign by any group. There is a world of difference between recognising contributory factors to conflict [every history book has done and will continue to do so] and taking sides. For example, it I entirely possible to analyse reasons for Hitler's rise to power in Germany [including some genuine grievances of the German people] and condoning or supporting Nazism. Even the most superficial analysis of the latter would point to the necessity of the Allied forces taking action in a just war against Hitler.

I made no judgement on the rightness or otherwise of any 'terrorist' action in NI and have repeatedly in posts suggested that the PIRA campaign was counter-productive in alienating unionists and Protestants since the latter necessarily regarded actions as an attack on THEM. The difference between EXPLANATION and INTERPRETATION is that one seeks to identify as many objective factors as possible; interpretation is subjective and partial [sometimes utterly partisan. Justification is even more than that - it takes moral, ethical, social, political and ideological stances; I have done none of those except to point to the fact that it depends on whose 'truth' you are looking at and that the notion of a geometrical, arithmetical or algebraic slide-rule of judgement is farcical. I am at a loss to see where I allocated fault or even blame other than to suggest that there was always something 'rotten in the state of Denmark' or NI.

It would have been a very short-sighted person who could not have foreseen that our particular and peculiar hatreds would not have spilled over into mayhem!


Has it ever occurred to you GandT, that you are cleverer than the rest of us?  :)

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GandT

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Re: Northern Ireland's future at risk without post-Brexit customs deal, says Hain
« Reply #1312 on: December 01, 2019, 07:21:15 PM »
Has it ever occurred to you GandT, that you are cleverer than the rest of us?  :)

Nope - whether your question is genuine or sarcastic I do not know. I have agreed, disagreed, bantered, debated and engaged with all and sundry on this forum. Only a very few times - and it was a poster whose name I can't recall immediately- have I ever been drawn into any negative comment on any person's intellect, style of writing and so on. The poster in question was fond of telling the rest of us that he / she WAS superior in intellect, insight, vision and to all of us; thankfully, such people are rare!

I don't judge people on the basis of their posts; I would need to know a lot more about them before I could frame the slightest idea about their overall character, intelligence, emotional intelligence, integrity, honesty and so on. Even then I doubt my ability to be accurate.

I don't dumb down what I have to say and I certainly do not intend to talk down to anyone. The main reason is that I try to remain open-minded to as many views as I can and have found some great points made by all sorts of people that have caused me to think. In all seriousness, there are so many forms of human intelligence, cleverness, experience and insight that I genuinely never dream of analysing the 'cleverness' of people. The best form of cleverness in my view is in acknowledging how much one does NOT know; that is one of the reasons why I like the Forum - people add to what I know.

James James

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bjay

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Re: Northern Ireland's future at risk without post-Brexit customs deal, says Hain
« Reply #1317 on: December 02, 2019, 08:13:51 PM »
Health workers withdraw their labour and have their pay docked.    MLA's withdraw their labour and continue to get paid for almost 2 years.  They still claim expenses and family members continue to get paid as office staff.  The money Arlene wasted on RHI would have been better invested in the NHS.  The DUP claim citizens in NI should be treated the same as those in England, Scotland and Wales, yet it was a DUP health minister who abolished pay parity.   What part of equal pay for work of equal value do they not understand?                                     What about MP's from NI getting paid less than those from England?

Bigali

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Re: Northern Ireland's future at risk without post-Brexit customs deal, says Hain
« Reply #1318 on: December 02, 2019, 08:29:50 PM »
Health workers withdraw their labour and have their pay docked.    MLA's withdraw their labour and continue to get paid for almost 2 years.  They still claim expenses and family members continue to get paid as office staff.  The money Arlene wasted on RHI would have been better invested in the NHS.  The DUP claim citizens in NI should be treated the same as those in England, Scotland and Wales, yet it was a DUP health minister who abolished pay parity.   What part of equal pay for work of equal value do they not understand?                                     What about MP's from NI getting paid less than those from England?

If they’re not actually in Government stop their pay . End of . Then we’ll see how quickly things change . Apart from benefit scroungers and the serial third and fourth generation unemployed of which there are unfortunately quite a few in Northern Ireland , no one else here gets paid for doing nothing so why should they ?
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The courageous deeds and sacrifices of the RUC and UDR must never be airbrushed from history .

James James

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Re: Northern Ireland's future at risk without post-Brexit customs deal, says Hain
« Reply #1319 on: December 03, 2019, 09:06:00 AM »
"How Northern Ireland could work its way back to EU after Brexit"

"Opinion: the Good Friday Agreement contains a mechanism that would allow Northern Ireland to return to the European Union"

"By Colin Harvey, Queen's University Belfast"

https://www.rte.ie/brainstorm/2019/1014/1083233-northern-ireland-eu-brexit-good-friday-agreement/

https://pure.qub.ac.uk/en/persons/colin-harvey