Author Topic: Belfast trial of two Rugby players for rape  (Read 27624 times)

jillyfred

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Re: Belfast trial of two Rugby players for rape
« Reply #45 on: February 17, 2018, 12:57:37 PM »

I wonder if the family and friends of the accused have been blabbing online. I hear the judge called for them not to talk about the case at the weekend on social media. I don't believe they did not talk about the events of the night before when they meet up the next day in a Lisburn road coffee shop like Rory Harrison claims. Also he claimed the alleged rape victim was fixated with Paddy Jackson and didn't take her eyes off him, Surely that would mean that he "Rory Harrison" must have been fixated with her and did not take his eyes of her to notice this. And furthermore Paddy claims he did not engage in [censored] yet one of the females that walked into his bedroom claims that when she walked into the room paddy was engaged in what she claims was a 3some.
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ExBuckfaster-I realise this is a case which people are interested in.
However,it is also a case that involves a lot of lives and possible destruction of some.
To pre-judge,pre-empt is not right.
Can you imagine if it was your family this was happening to?
If it was mine I would be devastated to read all the press and online stuff.
Therefore-in my life I just look at this as if it was happening in my family and button my lip.
Let the legal process go its route-then at the end of that if you need to have your say-so be it.
jilly

ExBuckfastdrinker

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Re: Belfast trial of two Rugby players for rape
« Reply #46 on: February 17, 2018, 01:04:20 PM »

Will do Jillyfred.

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ExBuckfaster-I realise this is a case which people are interested in.
However,it is also a case that involves a lot of lives and possible destruction of some.
To pre-judge,pre-empt is not right.
Can you imagine if it was your family this was happening to?
If it was mine I would be devastated to read all the press and online stuff.
Therefore-in my life I just look at this as if it was happening in my family and button my lip.
Let the legal process go its route-then at the end of that if you need to have your say-so be it.
jilly

jillyfred

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Re: Belfast trial of two Rugby players for rape
« Reply #47 on: February 17, 2018, 02:01:10 PM »

Will do Jillyfred.
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ExBuckfastdrinker-your an Officer and a Gentleman-and thank you for that.
jilly
 :-*

jjmack

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Re: Belfast trial of two Rugby players for rape
« Reply #48 on: February 18, 2018, 09:30:00 AM »
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ExBuckfaster-I realise this is a case which people are interested in.
However,it is also a case that involves a lot of lives and possible destruction of some.
To pre-judge,pre-empt is not right.
Can you imagine if it was your family this was happening to?
If it was mine I would be devastated to read all the press and online stuff.
Therefore-in my life I just look at this as if it was happening in my family and button my lip.
Let the legal process go its route-then at the end of that if you need to have your say-so be it.
jilly

Sound advice.  O0 O0  Let the due process take its course.  :)
Wear your RED POPPY with PRIDE.  Lest we forget. BUY BRITISH.  Support the forces of LAW and ORDER, PAST and PRESENT. Justice for the BRITISH ARMY.

James James

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Re: Belfast trial of two Rugby players for rape
« Reply #49 on: February 21, 2018, 04:08:16 AM »
"20th February 2018"
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-43129907

"Rugby rape trial hears of woman's injuries"

Quote...

A doctor who examined the woman who says she was raped by two Ulster rugby players has told a court about injuries he found on her body.

Dr Philip Lavery said there was a 1cm-long injury and bruising to her v_agina.

But he said it was not possible to say, on the basis of the medical evidence, whether the activity which caused the injuries was consensual or not.

Paddy Jackson and Stuart Olding deny raping the woman in Mr Jackson's house, in the early hours of 28 June 2016.

The following evening, the alleged victim referred herself to the Rowan centre in Antrim, a sexual assault referral centre.

The woman, who was 19 at the time, underwent a 30-minute physical examination.

The doctor who examined her noted that she did not report any threats or violence being used during the alleged attacks.

However, Dr Lavery reported her saying that the treatment towards her had been "rough" and had caused pain.

The doctor recorded that while discussing what happened to her she had been "co-operative but tearful".

A video recording was made of the physical examination.

Dr Lavery said he found injuries to the woman's v_agina.

He said that his findings would be consistent with blunt trauma to the area, but the medical evidence could not prove whether the activity had been consensual or not.

He told the court: "There is no way of giving entire credence as to whether this was consensual or not."

He added: "It does not help in deciding the consensuality of intercourse."

Etcetera...

ms123

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Re: Belfast trial of two Rugby players for rape
« Reply #50 on: February 24, 2018, 09:28:07 AM »
Why did this girl go back to a party where she knew nobody? It sounds like she got very carried away and when things were over and paddy jackson more or less dismissed her and went downstairs she realised she had been used. She could have shouted, left the room or put up some sort of fight. I believe that she did follow him upstairs. I think she was terrified that someone had filmed it and freaked out. Dont get me wrong these guys acted like prats and should have more repect. It doesnt make sense that you would leave your purse upstairs in a strangers house where you knew nobody.

ms123

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Re: Belfast trial of two Rugby players for rape
« Reply #51 on: February 24, 2018, 09:45:33 AM »
She also said she went back because she thought her friends would be there. Why didnt she call or text them asking where they where when she arrived at the house?

jillyfred

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Re: Belfast trial of two Rugby players for rape
« Reply #52 on: February 24, 2018, 09:48:38 AM »

Why did this girl go back to a party where she knew nobody? It sounds like she got very carried away and when things were over and paddy jackson more or less dismissed her and went downstairs she realised she had been used. She could have shouted, left the room or put up some sort of fight. I believe that she did follow him upstairs. I think she was terrified that someone had filmed it and freaked out. Dont get me wrong these guys acted like prats and should have more repect. It doesnt make sense that you would leave your purse upstairs in a strangers house where you knew nobody.
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The Trial outcome will no doubt answer your question ms123.
Also,it will explain the true sequence of events and hopefully justice will be done.

Welcome to the Forum.

jillyfred

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Re: Belfast trial of two Rugby players for rape
« Reply #53 on: February 24, 2018, 09:51:44 AM »

She also said she went back because she thought her friends would be there. Why didnt she call or text them asking where they where when she arrived at the house?
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There is no point in speculating ms123.Its a very difficult time for all concerned and less said the better
until the Trial is finished.

ms123

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Re: Belfast trial of two Rugby players for rape
« Reply #54 on: February 24, 2018, 11:21:08 AM »
jillyfred - both parties made mistakes that night and now their personal lifes are being judged - fact. it is an unfortunate mess but has been made public and therefore people are going to have opinions. This is an example of the consequences of doing such stupid things, especially when you are in the public eye. I believe this woman consented until she realised that she had been used and others had seen what happened and would spread the word about what happened. The girl should not have been in the house in the first place. I have followed the case closely and there are lies being told from both parties. Not for one minute do I believe the guys didnt discuss the case the next day - that evidence has already been brought to the court so having an opinion on this at this stage is fair. The fact the girl said she thought her friends would be at the party has already been discussed - along with the fact that she said she left her purse upstairs -

ms123

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Re: Belfast trial of two Rugby players for rape
« Reply #55 on: February 24, 2018, 11:27:04 AM »
i feel sorry for the families involved not for the people involved in the case. Maybe all will be more careful in the future. I know the rugby scene and they do stupid things, but i have also witnessed girls throwing themselves at them and getting angry when they use them. This was bound to happen at some stage.

jillyfred

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Re: Belfast trial of two Rugby players for rape
« Reply #56 on: February 24, 2018, 12:34:35 PM »


ms123 my point is -I was not there that night.
I have no idea what happened.
Unlike many other `cases`before the Courts-I feel very strongly this one is a very delicate and indeed
a very sad one affecting so many people.
I take the view-that God forbid-my young relatives and their parents were going through this Trial
I would be completely destroyed with people condemning them before the Jury had given their verdict.
No matter what the outcome-lives have been destroyed -there will always be that Trial for the rest of
their lives.
For youngsters in their early 20`s this is really serious.Not to mention their families within their future
society.
You say you know the `Rugby` scene.I do not doubt that.
These young people and their families are suffering-as I have repeatedly said-wait for the verdict.
The young Lady -well lets wait and see what the Jury decides.She deserves,as do the 4 young men,
all fair and decent people to await the outcome of this case.
jilly

ExBuckfastdrinker

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Re: Belfast trial of two Rugby players for rape
« Reply #57 on: February 24, 2018, 01:29:39 PM »
I see the court case will be going on for another 2 weeks. Last weak was weak four. Heard it was originally supposed to be five weeks so looks like it will be 7 weeks in total.

jillyfred

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Re: Belfast trial of two Rugby players for rape
« Reply #58 on: February 24, 2018, 01:57:24 PM »

I see the court case will be going on for another 2 weeks. Last weak was weak four. Heard it was originally supposed to be five weeks so looks like it will be 7 weeks in total.
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Yes ExBuckfastdrinker.
Its a very difficult case so its no surprise its running over the original term of 5 weeks.
Better it runs longer to enable the Jury to ascertain all the evidence put before them.
They have a hard task before them.
jilly

James James

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Re: Belfast trial of two Rugby players for rape
« Reply #59 on: March 16, 2018, 01:40:01 PM »
Well, whatever way the verdict goes in this case, I suspect that in the future, the most enduring and longest remembered  and most noted aspect of it, might be some of the comments made in the closing speech of the prosecuting barrister.

A jury presiding over a trial involving two rugby players accused of rape were told today that what happened in the bedroom of Paddy Jackson's south Belfast home was "a throwback to the days of male entitlement".

As he summed up the Crown's case to the jury of eight men and three women, prosecuting barrister Toby Hedworth QC said it didn’t matter what school the defendants went to, or how successful their rugby careers were.

Rather, the barrister said, what was important was that "overbearing drunk young men ... with their passions raised", used a then 19-year old for their own sexual gratification even though they knew "she didn't consent, but they simply were not interested".

Now in its seventh week, the jury has already heard the 21-year-old complainant made the case that whilst attending an after party at Jackson's Oakleigh Park home following a night out in the VIP section at Ollie's, she was raped from behind by Jackson whilst being forced to perform oral sex on his Ulster Rugby teammate Stuart Olding (24), from Ardenlee Street.

Both men have denied the charge, while 26-year-old Jackson denies a further charge of sexual assault. The pair claim any activity was consensual.

The complainant also claimed that as this attack was coming to an end, Blane McIlroy appeared in the bedroom, naked, with his p_enis in his hand and demanding sex. He has been charged with, and denies, exposure.

Hammering home to the jury the woman's claim that what happened was not consensual, Mr Hedworth said:

"The law of this land says that a young woman is allowed to say no and any such no not only should be heeded, but it must be heeded."

"The law does not say 'oh well, you let me kiss you so I can force myself upon you' and the male will decide how far things will go. The law is not 'if she was up for something then I and my friends, if they fancy, can in effect do as I and they please'.

"The world has moved on. Unfortunately, the behaviour of some in our society has not. What happened in the bedroom of Patrick Jackson's bedroom in the early hours of Tuesday the 28th of June represents, we say, a throwback to the days of male entitlement."

Saying this case was not about 'me too' or gender politics, Mr Hedworth said the crux of the trial was about the conduct of Jackson, Olding and McIlroy against a woman whose views were not sought. The prosecutor also spoke of Rory Harrison's conduct in the aftermath of the incident.

The 25-year old, from Manse Road, has been charged with and denies perverting the course of justice and withholding information. Mr Hedworth said that rather than being a knight in shining armour who came to the woman's assistance and brought her home, he was more concerned about impeding the police investigation and protecting his friends – even when he was aware the woman said what happened to her with his friends was non-consensual.

Rejecting the defence's assertion that the woman was "trying to bag a celebrity" in Ollie's before going back to the party at Jackson's, Mr Hedworth reminded the jury that the complainant made it quite clear she was not interested in either Northern Ireland footballers or Ulster Rugby players.

In his summary to the jury, Mr Hedworth asked the members to consider the vastly differing versions of events given by all four defendants. And while he accepted there were inconsistencies in the accounts the woman gave in the aftermath of the incident, Mr Hedworth said this was not uncommon with rape victims who often experience "misguided shame, trauma and shock".

The prosecutor asked them to consider the evidence of the taxi driver who picked Harrison and the young woman up, and who noted a female sobbing and crying throughout the journey. He asked them to consider the one-cm tear to the woman's v_aginal wall, and also to consider why the woman's first concern was obtaining the morning after pill – despite the defendant's claims that nobody penetrated her with a p_enis.

Mr Hedworth said: "And so Patrick Jackson and Stuart Olding. Who cares where they went to school? Who cares about what junior team they played rugby for? Who cares which academy team they played for? Who cares about their level of success on the rugby field?

"It matters not whether you are a prince or a pauper. You are just as capable of getting yourself extremely drunk and doing something, no doubt, in the cold light of day, realise the consequences for yourself, you may come to regret."

The prosecutor asked the jury to decide whether or not the four men in the dock were "legends". He also asked the jury to give "careful, thorough and detailed consideration" to the evidence they have heard, adding "you can and shall be satisfied... that each of the allegations are proved. If this is so, we invite you to return the appropriate verdicts of guilty".