Author Topic: Belfast trial of two Rugby players for rape  (Read 28409 times)

Number26

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Re: Belfast trial of two Rugby players for rape
« Reply #465 on: May 11, 2019, 11:37:27 AM »
Justice for the innocent,the truth set him free ;)

Bigali

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Re: Belfast trial of two Rugby players for rape
« Reply #466 on: May 11, 2019, 11:40:03 AM »
Justice for the innocent,the truth set him free ;)

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Billy Fish

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Re: Belfast trial of two Rugby players for rape
« Reply #467 on: May 11, 2019, 07:04:38 PM »
I don't understand 'some people'. The case is long since finished. The four men found, not guilty. I wonder which part of that, 'some people' don't understand, or perhaps don't want to understand   ?  :)
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White dee

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Re: Belfast trial of two Rugby players for rape
« Reply #468 on: May 11, 2019, 10:56:48 PM »


Well one must give credit where it's due,,,

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-43670607
Justice for all the innocent/ unarmed People who were
Gunned down by the British Soldiers,
For no other reason then their religion,were murdered.


Bigali

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Re: Belfast trial of two Rugby players for rape
« Reply #470 on: May 11, 2019, 11:59:52 PM »
Baiting who  ???  anyway,as I've said before ( but I think it's gone into space somewhere ) don't fall for that old baiting game Billy Bob, just ignore them  :-*

To paraphrase yourself White Dee , at the end of the day the truth set the two rugby players free  :)
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White dee

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Re: Belfast trial of two Rugby players for rape
« Reply #471 on: May 12, 2019, 03:22:59 PM »
To paraphrase yourself White Dee , at the end of the day the truth set the two rugby players free  :)

Well you see Ali,it wasn't the truth that set them free,
Had it been the whole truth,I wouldn't be posting this, # 458.
Justice for the innocent .
Justice for all the innocent/ unarmed People who were
Gunned down by the British Soldiers,
For no other reason then their religion,were murdered.

James James

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Re: Belfast trial of two Rugby players for rape
« Reply #472 on: May 12, 2019, 07:22:40 PM »
https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/susan-mckay-public-disquiet-lingered-long-after-belfast-rape-trial-1.3887885

Susan McKay: Public disquiet lingered long after Belfast rape trial
Report recommends excluding spectators to protect trial witnesses from ‘cruel gaze’
Sat, May 11, 2019  Susan McKay

Paddy Jackson leaves Laganside Magistrates Court, March 2018. He was acquitted of rape but was subsequently sacked from the Ireland rugby team.


Earlier this week, London Irish rugby club proudly announced it has signed Paddy Jackson to its up and coming team.

 The club displayed its trophy player in photos showing him standing broadshouldered with his Ireland shirt on, boasting of his prowess, the caps and the points for Ireland and Ulster. London Irish has, it declared, a new vision for its future, and Jackson will bring to it “a wealth of experience”.

That, as Belfast feminists have caustically noted, “is one way of putting it”.

Yes, the man who introduced some of us to the term “spit-roast” is back. Last year, lest anyone has forgotten, Jackson was put on trial for rape.

He was acquitted. However, he was subsequently sacked from the Ireland rugby team – he was deemed to have failed to uphold its values of “respect, inclusivity and integrity” because of the misogynistic attitudes to women he had displayed.

It seems more than likely that this is just a stepping stone back into the limelight of the Ireland team. It is probably assumed that those who feel that Jackson disgraced his country and should never represent it again will have exhausted their anger by that stage. It is, in a way, a reasonable calculation.

Rage and hurt and solidarity with the young woman who was the complainant in the case brought thousands of women and men out on to the streets in Belfast, Dublin, London and in other cities and towns in the aftermath of Jackson’s trial. Such demonstrations require a communal energy that inevitably subsides.

Renewal of hostilities
It does not go away, though. We absorb the hurt into ourselves, into our bodies and into our souls.

Last week, the brave and brilliant British Labour MP Jess Phillips spoke about how she broke down in tears on the street in Birmingham, the constituency she represents. This followed a renewal of hostilities from a Ukip candidate for the European elections, Carl Benjamin. This bully had sent a tweet to Phillips in 2016 saying, “I wouldn’t even rape you.” He revisited this recently, adding “with enough pressure I might cave in but let’s be honest nobody’s got that much beer”.

Ban public from rape trials in Northern Ireland, says review

Paddy Jackson’s move to London Irish confirmed
Contrasting fortunes for Jackson and Olding in France after Belfast rape trial

Many other women who are MPs have revealed that they have been threatened with death or rape in recent months

After Phillips spoke out about this, two men pursued her in the street outside Westminster, one of them shouting at her that he paid her wages and why shouldn’t someone joke about raping her.

The Ukip leader minimised what Benjamin had done, claiming he was engaging in satire, though he also told him to desist from rape jokes to concentrate on “the serious political issues”.

Benjamin refused to apologise, defending his right, if provoked by a “giant bitch”, to behave “like a giant dick”.

The rhetoric of Brexit extremists is macho and vicious. It has degraded public discourse in the UK. Many other women who are MPs have revealed that they have been threatened with death or rape in recent months. The murder of Jo Cox stands as a brutal warning. Explaining her tears, Phillips said it was because: “I just felt the enormous weight of years and years of abuse.”

Following her

In her memoir, Sisters, the late June Levine describes an incident in which she was at a filling station on her way to an appointment. As she got into her car, a group of young men getting into another car said something to her. She responded politely and drove off. A few miles later, she realised they were following her. They tried to shunt her car off the road. She broke into a sweat. Her nose began to bleed. Her bowels opened. She drove very fast and eventually they abandoned their chase. She did not tell her husband but did eventually tell a psychiatrist. His response was: “Yes, but nothing actually happened, did it?”

I met Levine when we both took part in training to be volunteers at the Dublin Rape Crisis Centre. She spoke about the way the incident stayed with her. She recounts this in Sisters: “I remembered that fear. It had been a fear like no other, yet familiar, sickeningly recognisable, making other fears trivial. It had a life of its own. It dwelled as a race memory, poised in the pit of my stomach, prepared to grow in relation to one signal, the ancient atmosphere of rape.

A deep public disquiet lingered after the so-called “Belfast rugby rape trial”. There was the gross and appalling sexism Jackson and his friends (three of whom were also acquitted on other charges) had displayed in their social media exchanges about their night of partying with young women they called “Belfast sluts”.

There was also the use of rape myths by the all-male set of barristers who defended the accused.

Perhaps most notoriously, one of them asked the jury to consider why the complainant had not screamed. After all, there were middle-class girls downstairs who would not tolerate rape, he reasoned.

Excellent report

After the trial, Sir John Gillen was commissioned to review sexual offences law and its application. Following an admirably wide consultation, his excellent report was published last week.

Gillen recognises that the fear of “shame and long lasting humiliation” is a deterrent to reporting rape.

His wide-ranging recommendations include excluding spectators to protect witnesses from their “cruel gaze”. He calls for education tackling the victim-blaming myths of rape, and for their use in court to be outlawed.

Jackson was acquitted. A jury unanimously found him not guilty of rape.

So that means that nothing actually happened, doesn’t it


Billy Fish

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Re: Belfast trial of two Rugby players for rape
« Reply #473 on: May 12, 2019, 11:25:00 PM »
https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/susan-mckay-public-disquiet-lingered-long-after-belfast-rape-trial-1.3887885

Susan McKay: Public disquiet lingered long after Belfast rape trial
Report recommends excluding spectators to protect trial witnesses from ‘cruel gaze’
Sat, May 11, 2019  Susan McKay

Paddy Jackson leaves Laganside Magistrates Court, March 2018. He was acquitted of rape but was subsequently sacked from the Ireland rugby team.


Earlier this week, London Irish rugby club proudly announced it has signed Paddy Jackson to its up and coming team.

 The club displayed its trophy player in photos showing him standing broadshouldered with his Ireland shirt on, boasting of his prowess, the caps and the points for Ireland and Ulster. London Irish has, it declared, a new vision for its future, and Jackson will bring to it “a wealth of experience”.

That, as Belfast feminists have caustically noted, “is one way of putting it”.

Yes, the man who introduced some of us to the term “spit-roast” is back. Last year, lest anyone has forgotten, Jackson was put on trial for rape.

He was acquitted. However, he was subsequently sacked from the Ireland rugby team – he was deemed to have failed to uphold its values of “respect, inclusivity and integrity” because of the misogynistic attitudes to women he had displayed.

It seems more than likely that this is just a stepping stone back into the limelight of the Ireland team. It is probably assumed that those who feel that Jackson disgraced his country and should never represent it again will have exhausted their anger by that stage. It is, in a way, a reasonable calculation.

Rage and hurt and solidarity with the young woman who was the complainant in the case brought thousands of women and men out on to the streets in Belfast, Dublin, London and in other cities and towns in the aftermath of Jackson’s trial. Such demonstrations require a communal energy that inevitably subsides.

Renewal of hostilities
It does not go away, though. We absorb the hurt into ourselves, into our bodies and into our souls.

Last week, the brave and brilliant British Labour MP Jess Phillips spoke about how she broke down in tears on the street in Birmingham, the constituency she represents. This followed a renewal of hostilities from a Ukip candidate for the European elections, Carl Benjamin. This bully had sent a tweet to Phillips in 2016 saying, “I wouldn’t even rape you.” He revisited this recently, adding “with enough pressure I might cave in but let’s be honest nobody’s got that much beer”.

Ban public from rape trials in Northern Ireland, says review

Paddy Jackson’s move to London Irish confirmed
Contrasting fortunes for Jackson and Olding in France after Belfast rape trial

Many other women who are MPs have revealed that they have been threatened with death or rape in recent months

After Phillips spoke out about this, two men pursued her in the street outside Westminster, one of them shouting at her that he paid her wages and why shouldn’t someone joke about raping her.

The Ukip leader minimised what Benjamin had done, claiming he was engaging in satire, though he also told him to desist from rape jokes to concentrate on “the serious political issues”.

Benjamin refused to apologise, defending his right, if provoked by a “giant bitch”, to behave “like a giant dick”.

The rhetoric of Brexit extremists is macho and vicious. It has degraded public discourse in the UK. Many other women who are MPs have revealed that they have been threatened with death or rape in recent months. The murder of Jo Cox stands as a brutal warning. Explaining her tears, Phillips said it was because: “I just felt the enormous weight of years and years of abuse.”

Following her

In her memoir, Sisters, the late June Levine describes an incident in which she was at a filling station on her way to an appointment. As she got into her car, a group of young men getting into another car said something to her. She responded politely and drove off. A few miles later, she realised they were following her. They tried to shunt her car off the road. She broke into a sweat. Her nose began to bleed. Her bowels opened. She drove very fast and eventually they abandoned their chase. She did not tell her husband but did eventually tell a psychiatrist. His response was: “Yes, but nothing actually happened, did it?”

I met Levine when we both took part in training to be volunteers at the Dublin Rape Crisis Centre. She spoke about the way the incident stayed with her. She recounts this in Sisters: “I remembered that fear. It had been a fear like no other, yet familiar, sickeningly recognisable, making other fears trivial. It had a life of its own. It dwelled as a race memory, poised in the pit of my stomach, prepared to grow in relation to one signal, the ancient atmosphere of rape.

A deep public disquiet lingered after the so-called “Belfast rugby rape trial”. There was the gross and appalling sexism Jackson and his friends (three of whom were also acquitted on other charges) had displayed in their social media exchanges about their night of partying with young women they called “Belfast sluts”.

There was also the use of rape myths by the all-male set of barristers who defended the accused.

Perhaps most notoriously, one of them asked the jury to consider why the complainant had not screamed. After all, there were middle-class girls downstairs who would not tolerate rape, he reasoned.

Excellent report

After the trial, Sir John Gillen was commissioned to review sexual offences law and its application. Following an admirably wide consultation, his excellent report was published last week.

Gillen recognises that the fear of “shame and long lasting humiliation” is a deterrent to reporting rape.

His wide-ranging recommendations include excluding spectators to protect witnesses from their “cruel gaze”. He calls for education tackling the victim-blaming myths of rape, and for their use in court to be outlawed.

Jackson was acquitted. A jury unanimously found him not guilty of rape.

So that means that nothing actually happened, doesn’t it

Correct, the four young men were found 'not quilty'. End of story.   O0 O0
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Re: Belfast trial of two Rugby players for rape
« Reply #474 on: May 13, 2019, 12:41:23 AM »


As we,... and the general public,... including many rugby fans,... are already very well aware,... the issue of former personal criminal legal guilt or innocence is no longer an issue,... or the issue,... or the current and future main issue.

We and they are all also equally well aware that the player has now acknowledged and apologised for his behaviour and attitudes towards the victim.

In a wider context those matters apply not only to him,... but because of them, he has become a public symbol  and example,... for much wider related issues.

"13th May 2019"
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/paddy-jackson-london-irish-rugby-rape-misogyny-hate-crime-women-a8910216.html

"Paddy Jackson’s return to rugby is yet more proof that misogyny goes unpunished"

"He may have been found not guilty of rape last year, but his sexist behaviour is worth challenging."

"Attitudes towards women aren’t changing quickly enough, so perhaps laws should, says Annie Corcoran "

Quote,...

Misogyny remains a huge issue in our society. Women are still objectified, hated, mistreated and killed because they are women. Steps have been made towards achieving equality but, evidently, we have a long way to go.

The last few weeks in particular have shown how much of an uphill battle tackling sexism tends to be. The signing of Paddy Jackson to London Irish RFC is just one in a long list of examples.

In March 2018, rugby star Jackson, along with three other defendants, was found not guilty in a trial in which a woman alleged that she had been sexually assaulted and raped.

While the sexual acts that took place between them were ruled consensual, the deeply questionable behaviour of him and his teammates that came to light in evidence is definitely worth unpicking.

Jackson was part of a group chat on WhatsApp with other members of the Ulster team that were misogynistic and deeply disrespectful towards women.

The group joked about how they “spit roast” a woman, that they were “top shaggers” and also how the distressed woman “was in hysterics”.

The language was appalling, but the most disturbing part was the jovial tone of the messages that demonstrated their disturbingly callous attitude towards women.

By no means am I suggesting that that he is guilty of the crime of rape because of that behaviour – the fact that such a big club would so casually disregard Jackson’s misogyny is disgraceful enough in itself.

The problem is, by signing him, they have put female supporters of London Irish in an extremely uncomfortable position.

As expected, many fans have tweeted their frustration and revulsion.

One suggested that they were “genuinely unsettled” and that they couldn’t believe that “his past is simply brushed under the carpet”.

Another asked how London Irish could endorse this behaviour saying: “Does your club think this is an acceptable way to talk about women ?”

Sadly, it doesn’t seem to matter to the club.

Jackson’s sporting ability apparently means more to them than how he views women.

There is something to be said about those messages and what they reveal about how deeply misogyny has permeated all areas of society.

Our judicial system hardly takes women seriously.

Recently, a judge named Martin Rudland told Alexander Heavens, an abusive man who was found guilty of coercive control charges, that “everybody is entitled to a second chance” and to “put this behind you, put her behind you, there are lots more fish in the sea and watch how you go”.

This man had punched his girlfriend Stacey Booth in the face twice.

He had held a knife to her stomach, bit her and bent her fingers back so far that she thought they might break.

The judge’s comments did not reflect the gravity of the situation at all. Rather than pointing out just how unacceptable his behaviour was, they minimised the crime and let the victim down.

How are women supposed to feel as though they are in any way equal when violence against them is just waved away. ?

This is why we need to change things.

Time and time again society prioritises men over women.

Too often I find myself furious at stories that quickly dismiss men’s poor treatment of women.

Failing to recognise the widespread nature of the problem is no longer an option.

We have to stop downplaying just how dangerous misogyny is.

We have to remember that misogyny kills.

In 2018, 147 women in the UK were killed by men.

 I often wonder how much we do collectively as a society to do enough to prevent some of those deaths.

Unfortunately, attitudes towards women aren’t changing quickly enough, so the law has to.

If misogyny were a hate crime, more women would feel able to speak up about being mistreated.

Crimes such as groping and sexual harassment would be taken more seriously.

It may even stop crimes such as stalking from escalating and becoming more violent.

Most importantly, it would enable society to start tackling the problem head on, hopefully providing some protection for those who are vulnerable.

We have to push to make this happen.

The system has to change and fully recognise that women are human and deserve to be treated with respect.

It’s time more laws worked with us, not against us.



White dee

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Re: Belfast trial of two Rugby players for rape
« Reply #475 on: May 13, 2019, 12:46:12 AM »
Correct, the four young men were found 'not quilty'. End of story.   O0 O0

Not really Billy but, I guess He was hoping it was too,He will never be able to get rid of this.
Justice for all the innocent/ unarmed People who were
Gunned down by the British Soldiers,
For no other reason then their religion,were murdered.

tours

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Re: Belfast trial of two Rugby players for rape
« Reply #476 on: May 13, 2019, 12:50:08 AM »
Not really Billy but, I guess He was hoping it was too,He will never be able to get rid of this.
He has to live with his conscience. Even if it's just the dreadful mysoginistic sexually lewd messages.
If he ever has kids, the will read the messages they where sending to each other. I mean 'Roast spit'  FILTH.

BLOOMFIELD

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Re: Belfast trial of two Rugby players for rape
« Reply #477 on: May 13, 2019, 01:42:00 AM »
Not really Billy but, I guess He was hoping it was too,He will never be able to get rid of this.

Ah yes, the haters will always hate... ;)
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When will the I.R.A. pay Compensation to their Innocent Victims or Relatives.

White dee

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Re: Belfast trial of two Rugby players for rape
« Reply #478 on: May 13, 2019, 05:05:00 PM »
He was found not guilty, correct, but your right, he will never be able to get 'rid of this' whilst people like you, do not accept the FACT that he was found not guilty.  ::)  Some people are slow learners, others are just bigoted.  :D

Where did I ever say He wasn't found not guilty  ??? more false accusations,
What I've said numerous times ( which you seem in denial about ) is He was never
proved to be innocent,and that's the real reason He will never get rid of this,
Because most People know the difference between the two verdicts,

Justice for all the innocent/ unarmed People who were
Gunned down by the British Soldiers,
For no other reason then their religion,were murdered.

James James

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Re: Belfast trial of two Rugby players for rape
« Reply #479 on: May 13, 2019, 08:06:52 PM »
I suspect that this player, and probably also his fellow trial defendants, have now acknowledged and accepted the truth and personal relevance of this assertion.