Author Topic: Belfast trial of two Rugby players for rape  (Read 28405 times)

cookstown

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Re: Belfast trial of two Rugby players for rape
« Reply #495 on: June 03, 2019, 01:53:36 PM »
If ever you run short of toilet paper, just go to posts on the rugby trial, print off and retain.

cookstown

James James

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Re: Belfast trial of two Rugby players for rape
« Reply #496 on: June 03, 2019, 08:21:30 PM »
IMHO this is `dead in the water`.

Common sense and decency need to prevail.

Give these 5 young people and their families and friends the chance to get their lives back together as best they can.
How would any of us have a day`s peace again with this ongoing carryon in the Forum if we were in their position.

Constantly posting photographs,links,long sprouting pages for no reason other to cause controversy and personal delight on the part of the poster -IMHO is utterly disgusting.

jilly 

They're not being "persecuted" or "hounded", either here or elsewhere, when the original case is still publicly referred to.

The case and the circumstances and associated aspects of it, are a matter of continuing and widespread public interest and comment.

That's why the recent news announcement of Paddy Jackson's transfer to a London club, attracted so much media attention,... and that's why the news of the transfer also attracted so much critical comment from fans of the club and from fans of rugby.

The apologetic public statement that Paddy Jackson then made in respect of his behaviour and actions in the events that led to the case might have served to reduce the amount of such public criticism, if he had made it immediately after the announcement of the verdict in the case.

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"6 April 2018"
https://www.itv.com/news/utv/2018-04-06/paddy-jackson-apologises-for-betraying-family-values/

"Paddy Jackson apologises for ‘betraying family values’"

"Rugby star Paddy Jackson has said he is ashamed the woman who accused him of rape left his home distressed and has apologised for betraying the values of his family."

"Paddy Jackson also said public criticism of his behaviour was "fully justified"."

syriana

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Re: Belfast trial of two Rugby players for rape
« Reply #497 on: June 03, 2019, 09:13:39 PM »
I am fascinated how some posters on this thread can completely disregard the the ultimate outcome of protracted High Court proceedings just to satisfy pre-existing emotional needs.  Conspiracy theorists operate in exactly the same way. 

Professor Karen Douglas who is a psychologist at the University of Kent is an authority on the behaviour of conspiracy theorists.  She came to the conclusion that there is a smorgasbord of explanations for this type of behaviour. 

My own opinion in an nutshell -  tribalism is a motivating factor here in NI and it can sometimes manifest itself in Pavlovian responses to certain topics - psychologists refer to this as "cognitive bias".
No answer is an answer.

White dee

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Re: Belfast trial of two Rugby players for rape
« Reply #498 on: June 03, 2019, 09:37:39 PM »
I am fascinated how some posters on this thread can completely disregard the the ultimate outcome of protracted High Court proceedings just to satisfy pre-existing emotional needs.  Conspiracy theorists operate in exactly the same way. 

Professor Karen Douglas who is a psychologist at the University of Kent is an authority on the behaviour of conspiracy theorists.  She came to the conclusion that there is a smorgasbord of explanations for this type of behaviour. 

My own opinion in an nutshell -  tribalism is a motivating factor here in NI and it can sometimes manifest itself in Pavlovian responses to certain topics - psychologists refer to this as "cognitive bias".

Hear,hear well said   

 :D -- ;) --  :) 

Justice for all the innocent/ unarmed People who were
Gunned down by the British Soldiers,
For no other reason then their religion,were murdered.

Bigali

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Re: Belfast trial of two Rugby players for rape
« Reply #499 on: June 03, 2019, 11:14:01 PM »
Hear,hear well said   

 :D -- ;) --  :)

So you agree that you dislike Paddy Jackson because it’s really a class thing ?
Support Soldier F Support Soldier B

The courageous deeds and sacrifices of the RUC and UDR must never be airbrushed from history .

James James

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Re: Belfast trial of two Rugby players for rape
« Reply #500 on: June 04, 2019, 06:25:50 AM »
By Helen Lewis.  "Helen Lewis is associate editor of the New Statesman. She regularly appears on BBC Radio 4’s Week in Westminster and the News Quiz, and is writing a history of feminism for Jonathan Cape."

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/sport/2018/04/belfast-rape-trial-i-m-haunted-man-who-couldn-t-stand-his-friends

"Reading all this, it is not hard for me to see why the trial of the four men – who were all found not guilty at a Belfast court on 28 March – has prompted protests both in Northern Ireland and the Republic. It took a jury less than four hours to acquit two of them of rape, one of exposure, and the fourth (the man who took the complainant home) of impeding the police investigation."

"The Irish Times’s coverage highlighted the difference in the conduct of rape trials on each side of the Irish border."

"In the Republic, defendants cannot be named unless found guilty, and such trials do not admit the public."

"In Northern Ireland, defendants can be named from the point of charge, and the public is allowed into court."

"The latter point, inevitably, led to the woman being identified and named on social media."

"In Belfast but not Dublin, defendants are also allowed to call character witnesses."
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"April 3 2019"
https://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/international-rugby/best-i-thought-about-quitting-as-irish-captain-over-trial-outcry-37978066.html


"Rory Best has opened up for the first time about how he almost quit as Ireland captain as a result of the public furore surrounding his appearance at the Belfast rape trial last year."

"Best was advised to appear at the trial of former Ulster team-mates Stuart Olding and Paddy Jackson, who were later acquitted of all charges, in his role as a potential character witness."

"However, his appearance prompted much outrage and there was a social media campaign initiated seeking his removal as captain as Ireland embarked upon their Six Nations campaign."
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"Rape complainants, of course, get the opposite of character witnesses: under certain circumstances, their previous sexual history can still be raised in court. In the case against the footballer Ched Evans – whose conviction was later quashed – the claim that the woman involved had used the phrase “go harder” with a previous sexual partner, as well as with Evans, was used against her. We laugh now at the Lady Chatterley prosecutor asking the jury if it was a book they would let their wife or servants read, but really? What kind of sex are England’s finest legal minds having, if the phrase “go harder” seems unusual or shocking? In the Ulster case, the woman’s presence at a bar and her decision to go to the house of one of the defendants – gasp! – were raised in court."

"Many of the protests about the Belfast trial used the hashtag “#IBelieveHer”. It’s a phrase that’s always bothered me – as a journalist, I think belief is irrelevant; facts are what matter."

"But it encapsulates an important truth, because what those protesters are really asking for is the removal of kneejerk disbelief."

"We don’t assume that people who report a burglary probably made it up; so why is that the default position for so many when it comes to sexual assault ?"

"As those text messages show, the woman in the rugby trial feared talking to the police because she sensed a power difference between her and the sports stars."

"The defence case rested on the idea that she was a fame-hungry tart, who spent the evening eyeing up the men in a bar."

"The line of reasoning then flows: how could such a woman later change her mind about having sex with celebrities, or even contest the circumstances in which that might take place ?"

"The men involved were always entitled to the presumption of innocence, and have now been acquitted of the charges against them."

"What they are undoubtedly guilty of, however, is misogyny. They are guilty of treating sex as an arena in which they luxuriate in their dominance over “sluts” for whom they have no respect."

"It was “hilarious”, after all, to one of the men that the complainant was left in a state that another described as being “in hysterics”."

"The man accused of v aginal rape saw that the woman was bleeding, and told the court he assumed – he did not bother to ask – that she was on her period."

"Women are there to be “pumped” and “roasted” – pornified descriptions of sex which leave no room for the idea that female pleasure might matter, too."

"The living, breathing woman in the room that night was undoubtedly less important to these men than the blokey bonding of discussing the experience afterwards."

"(Really, it would be safer for everyone concerned if the players just cut out the middlewoman and had sex with each other next time.)"

"This case leaves me feeling dispirited about the way that some men see sex – even if they believe it to be consensual – in such degrading, dehumanised terms."

"I’m not particularly interested in their explanation to the court that it was all just boasting and immature banter."

"So what? It’s still gross."

"I salute the bravery of the complainant in this case, but with respect, she isn’t the figure whose behaviour most interests me."

"No, that would be the fourth man, accused only of covering up for his friends. He wasn’t a member of the banterous WhatsApp group."

"His texts show he knew something bad had happened, whether it met a criminal standard of proof or not, and getting the woman home safely shows that he, at least, saw her as a human being."

"I don’t hold out much hope for the men who think of sex as pumping a slut, but that guy… what is he thinking today. ?"

"He knew he had seen something awful and wrong, but couldn’t stand up to his friends."

CMcG

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Re: Belfast trial of two Rugby players for rape
« Reply #501 on: June 04, 2019, 05:39:16 PM »

... IMHO this is `dead in the water` ...
 

Yes jilly, I think the whole world is with you on that one.  Except one poster.

If there are any images posted above that are important to you, take your own copy - I cannot guarantee they will appear indefinitely.

James James

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Re: Belfast trial of two Rugby players for rape
« Reply #502 on: June 04, 2019, 07:08:46 PM »
The sordid and terrifying reality of such a situation, which only a victim  can truly understand,...

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/alleged-victim-of-rape-by-jackson-and-olding-says-she-froze-1.3375058

"Alleged victim of rape by Jackson and Olding says she ‘froze’ "

"Court hears woman told Ireland rugby player to stop when he tried to undo her trousers"

"A woman who has accused Ireland and Ulster rugby players Paddy Jackson and Stuart Olding of rape has told a court she “froze” when the alleged sexual assault took place."

"The woman, who was 19 at the time, recalled being “in the moment” as she gave evidence of the night and early morning of the incident on June 28th, 2016, at Laganside Crown Court."

You think you are going to kick and scream and fight but it does not work that way. You literally just freeze. You know where this is going,” she told Judge Patricia Smyth yesterday."

tours

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Re: Belfast trial of two Rugby players for rape
« Reply #503 on: June 05, 2019, 01:00:56 AM »
Yes jilly, I think the whole world is with you on that one.  Except one poster.
Agree. They have left a legacy with their messages to each other (spit posts) to their children.
Lovely.
Time will take its course.
"Daddy, did you really mean what you said in your messages back then, to treat women like a piece of meat?".


White dee

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Re: Belfast trial of two Rugby players for rape
« Reply #504 on: June 08, 2019, 01:28:38 PM »
Justice for all the innocent/ unarmed People who were
Gunned down by the British Soldiers,
For no other reason then their religion,were murdered.

Billy Fish

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Re: Belfast trial of two Rugby players for rape
« Reply #505 on: June 08, 2019, 07:14:13 PM »
If ever you run short of toilet paper, just go to posts on the rugby trial, print off and retain.

cookstown

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James James

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Re: Belfast trial of two Rugby players for rape
« Reply #506 on: June 09, 2019, 04:11:58 AM »
Sponsor’s decision to part ways with club not related to Paddy Jackson’s signing, insists London Irish

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/rugby/sponsors-decision-to-part-ways-with-club-not-related-to-paddy-jacksons-signing-insists-london-irish-38192646.html 
"London Irish announced a three-year sponsorship deal with the firm in September 2018."

Yet the sponsor withdraws from the arrangement now,...  quite a coincidence, perhaps.

White dee

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Re: Belfast trial of two Rugby players for rape
« Reply #507 on: June 11, 2019, 04:28:00 AM »
Justice for all the innocent/ unarmed People who were
Gunned down by the British Soldiers,
For no other reason then their religion,were murdered.

jillyfred

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Re: Belfast trial of two Rugby players for rape
« Reply #508 on: June 11, 2019, 05:28:50 PM »

IMHO .the fact that this Thread is constantly brought up, it can only be for reasons that are absolutely and utterly abhorrent to anyone with an ounce of empathy and understanding of what all the 5 youngsters and their families have gone through.
The constant long diatribes,the constant links,the posting of opinions by some individual no one has ever heard of,and whose opinion is merely-as the fashion today-to get into print-or hear their own voice.
To any right thinking person anywhere this is simply continuing to `milk the cow dry`and the cow was dry when the Jury gave their verdict.
Certain sections are all for Court rulings or judgments when it suits their own -but not when it comes out in favour of others-who are someone else`s own.
The texts disgust me and I thank the Lord none of our young ones would ever have written such words-neither would they have ever been at such an `event`for want of a better word.
Having said that-this is finished-and it should be finished-and as for those who delight in the fact  a couple of sponsors are getting on the bandwagon-well just maybe they are not too flush and see a way out of the cash commitment they made-who knows-using the excuse of the young man to extricate themselves-I doubt if its anything to do with `morals`.There are none in today`s commercial marketplace sadly-its corrupt.

jilly


White dee

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Re: Belfast trial of two Rugby players for rape
« Reply #509 on: June 11, 2019, 06:04:35 PM »


Your post is your opinion Jilly, and of course your entitled to it, this is an open Forum,I trust you know the meaning of that, where others are entitled to their opinions too, otherwise, it wouldn't be a
open Forum,
Its such a pity that in your long post that not once,,, did you mention the Young Lady is the whole messy affair,and that is sad,
made worse by the fact that you are a Female too,
Might be a good idea for you and others who can't wait for this terrible affair to just  GO AWAY , should voice their opinions to the daily Newspaper who carry this case, mind you, some would say that by doing that, we would be taking away the freedom of expression on the Newspaper Media.
Justice for all the innocent/ unarmed People who were
Gunned down by the British Soldiers,
For no other reason then their religion,were murdered.