Author Topic: McNamee/Mclaughlin.  (Read 1272 times)

Tipperdarby

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McNamee/Mclaughlin.
« on: February 17, 2018, 11:06:28 PM »
CMcG,
I am looking into my maternal side of my family and I wonder if you would mind helping me please.

My Grandfather was John Mc Namee, he was born in Sion Mills Co Tyrone on Nov 16 1882 to John Mc Namee and Sarah Mc Laughlin. I have the years of birth of his siblings and I know his grandfathers were Bernard Mc Namee and Daniel Mc Laughlin but I donít know the names of their wives.

irishgenealogy.ie has a marriage date for a Daniel McLaughlin in 1847 in Newtonlimavady but no other info.
A couple of my McNamee cousins in Belfast are now interested in our family tree so between us we are trying to go as far back as we can.

My Grandmother McNamee was born Ellen Doey in Ballymena on May27 1887 to Ellen McKay and Daniel Doey. Her mother Ellen died 3 weeks after my Granny was born. Her father, who was a widower when he married Ellen on Sept1 1884 remarried once more to a woman who had no interest in raising my Granny so she was brought up by her fatherís 2 sisters.
I have a screen image of Daniel Doey and Ellen McKayís marriage but I cannot make out her Fatherís fist name. I know she had a brother James.
Any info you could give me when you have time....would be much appreciated as always

CMcG

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Re: McNamee/Mclaughlin.
« Reply #1 on: February 18, 2018, 01:39:38 AM »

...I have a screen image of Daniel Doey and Ellen McKayís marriage but I cannot make out her Fatherís fist name ...


The two parties to the marriage of 1 September 1884 at Ballymena RC Church were as follows...

Name and Surname: Danl. Doey
Age: of full age
Condition: widower
Rank or Profession: Mason
Residence at the Time of Marriage: Harryville
Father's Name and Surname: Thomas Doey
Rank or Profession of Father: Mason Dead

Name and Surname: Ellen McKay
Age: of full age
Condition: spinster
Rank or Profession: millworker
Residence at the Time of Marriage: Harryville
Father's Name and Surname: Danl. McKay
Rank or Profession of Father: Farmer

The witnesses were John Duffin and Elizabeth Bradley.

Below is Daniel's previous / first marriage, it was to Eliza Henry in 1875 at Ballymena RC Church, Daniel was recorded as 27 years old and his father as Thomas Doey, a Mason:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1875/11209/8108091.pdf

I can see 2 children to this couple in 1877 (Matilda) and 1878 (Thomas):
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1877/03026/2108799.pdf
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1878/02956/2082750.pdf

Eliza (Henry) Doey died in 1881:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1881/06432/4848067.pdf


Tipperdarby

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Re: McNamee/Mclaughlin.
« Reply #2 on: February 18, 2018, 03:11:57 AM »
The two parties to the marriage of 1 September 1884 at Ballymena RC Church were as follows...

Name and Surname: Danl. Doey
Age: of full age
Condition: widower
Rank or Profession: Mason
Residence at the Time of Marriage: Harryville
Father's Name and Surname: Thomas Doey
Rank or Profession of Father: Mason Dead

Name and Surname: Ellen McKay
Age: of full age
Condition: spinster
Rank or Profession: millworker
Residence at the Time of Marriage: Harryville
Father's Name and Surname: Danl. McKay
Rank or Profession of Father: Farmer

The witnesses were John Duffin and Elizabeth Bradley.

Below is Daniel's previous / first marriage, it was to Eliza Henry in 1875 at Ballymena RC Church, Daniel was recorded as 27 years old and his father as Thomas Doey, a Mason:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1875/11209/8108091.pdf

I can see 2 children to this couple in 1877 (Matilda) and 1878 (Thomas):
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1877/03026/2108799.pdf
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1878/02956/2082750.pdf

Eliza (Henry) Doey died in 1881:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1881/06432/4848067.pdf

Thank you as always CMcG..my Mom knew of Thomas who was born in 1878 but she didnít ever mention Matilda. .I wonder if she died? My Mom said ďTommy had a deformed foot but I donít know what happened to himĒ
Eileen

CMcG

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Re: McNamee/Mclaughlin.
« Reply #3 on: February 18, 2018, 03:52:34 AM »

... my Mom knew of Thomas who was born in 1878 but she didnít ever mention Matilda. I wonder if she died? ...


What looks like Matilda, died of whooping cough about 6 weeks before Daniel married Ellen McKay in Ballymena, but it was down in Belfast at 92 Cambrai Street, the informant was her aunt Mary Doey - Maybe Matilda was staying with her:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1884/06317/4811671.pdf

The 1884 Belfast street directory (PRONI website) shows the following for Cambrai (Cambria) Street: 92 Doey, Catherine, reeler   

The 1887 directory for the street shows: 92 Hoey, Thomas

The 1890 directory shows: 92. Dowie, Mary


CMcG

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Re: McNamee/Mclaughlin.
« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2018, 04:14:13 AM »
Bingo, 6th entry down, a match on the Cambrai Street address, Daniel was the informant (with a Ballymena address), if accurate, his father Thomas' wife Mary was born c.1827:

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1890/06099/4740663.pdf


Tipperdarby

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Re: McNamee/Mclaughlin.
« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2018, 05:07:49 AM »
Bingo, 6th entry down, a match on the Cambrai Street address, Daniel was the informant (with a Ballymena address), if accurate, his father Thomas' wife Mary was born c.1827:

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1890/06099/4740663.pdf

Ooh, you are so good at all this CMcG....thank you. .so my wee Granny actually had grandparents for a few short years. My Momís notes say that her father was a stonemason and he paid his 2 unmarried sisters Margaret and Catherine(Kitty) who lived in Belfast, extra money to look after her so she did not have to work in the mill part time while still in school. She is in the 1901 census living with Catherine in Oakfield Street.
Is there anything on when Daniel Doey died?  The name is sometimes spelled Dooey
Eileen

CMcG

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Re: McNamee/Mclaughlin.
« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2018, 05:30:58 AM »

...Is there anything on when Daniel Doey died? ...


Yes, he died in 1918:

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1918/05189/4433062.pdf

And this for Mary in the Weekly Telegraph of 15 March 1924:

DOOEY - March 4th, 1924, at Thomas Street, Ballymena, Mary, widow of the late Daniel Dooey.  Interred in New Cemetery, Ballymena.


CMcG

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Re: McNamee/Mclaughlin.
« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2018, 07:49:24 AM »

... My Grandfather was John Mc Namee, he was born in Sion Mills Co Tyrone on Nov 16 1882 to John Mc Namee and Sarah Mc Laughlin. I have the years of birth of his siblings and I know his grandfathers were Bernard Mc Namee and Daniel Mc Laughlin but I donít know the names of their wives ...


The 1873 marriage of John McNamee and Sarah Jane Mclaughlin took place in Derryloop Church in Donegal and the civil record indicates that John's birthyear was c. 1852:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1873/11278/8137149.pdf

There is no doubt that there was a Bernard McNamee specifically in Sion Mills who had a number of children with a Margaret Lynch from the 1850s right up to 1873, but it's difficult to say conclusively that he was your one, there could have been another one on the go with that name, for example, there are indications of a Bernard McNamee 6 miles to the south in Newtownstewart.

The earliest childrens' baptisms I can see for Bernard McNamee and Margaret Lynch  were for daughters Margaret and Ann in 1856 and 1858 respectively (in Donnyloop Church, like the other children). The following are reasonable possibilities for their marriages:

Margaret in 1877 (aged 19): https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1877/11141/8080430.pdf

Ann in 1882 (aged 24):
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1883/10924/5991576a.pdf

And this 1873 marriage for a Mary McNamee would place her birth c. 1854, again earlier than the first baptisms I could find for Bernard McNamee and Margaret Lynch:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1873/11271/8133900.pdf

Other children I could see for Bernard McNamee and Margaret Lynch were Bernard (1860), Rosanne (1862), Elizabeth (1864), Edward (1865), Frances (1869) and the last child was was Henry in 1873 (below):
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1873/03210/2177348.pdf 

I couldn't find the marriage record online for Bernard McNamee and Margaret Lynch, but what look like possible deaths for them, if accurate, point to them being born c. 1829 and 1825 respectively:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1883/06363/4825972.pdf
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1888/06160/4760448.pdf

But as I say, I can't definitively rule them in or out, for now it's just an unknown.


Tipperdarby

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Re: McNamee/Mclaughlin.
« Reply #8 on: February 26, 2018, 05:42:03 PM »
The 1873 marriage of John McNamee and Sarah Jane Mclaughlin took place in Derryloop Church in Donegal and the civil record indicates that John's birthyear was c. 1852:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1873/11278/8137149.pdf

There is no doubt that there was a Bernard McNamee specifically in Sion Mills who had a number of children with a Margaret Lynch from the 1850s right up to 1873, but it's difficult to say conclusively that he was your one, there could have been another one on the go with that name, for example, there are indications of a Bernard McNamee 6 miles to the south in Newtownstewart.

The earliest childrens' baptisms I can see for Bernard McNamee and Margaret Lynch  were for daughters Margaret and Ann in 1856 and 1858 respectively (in Donnyloop Church, like the other children). The following are reasonable possibilities for their marriages:

Margaret in 1877 (aged 19): https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1877/11141/8080430.pdf

Ann in 1882 (aged 24):
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1883/10924/5991576a.pdf

And this 1873 marriage for a Mary McNamee would place her birth c. 1854, again earlier than the first baptisms I could find for Bernard McNamee and Margaret Lynch:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1873/11271/8133900.pdf

Other children I could see for Bernard McNamee and Margaret Lynch were Bernard (1860), Rosanne (1862), Elizabeth (1864), Edward (1865), Frances (1869) and the last child was was Henry in 1873 (below):
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1873/03210/2177348.pdf 

I couldn't find the marriage record online for Bernard McNamee and Margaret Lynch, but what look like possible deaths for them, if accurate, point to them being born c. 1829 and 1825 respectively:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1883/06363/4825972.pdf
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1888/06160/4760448.pdf

But as I say, I can't definitively rule them in or out, for now it's just an unknown.

Thank you so much again CMcG, I am embarrassed that I forgot to thank you before this. I will just have to accept it as an unknown for now.
Can you see anything on a Daniel McLaughlin who was the father of Sarah married to John McNameein 1873?
Eileen

CMcG

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Re: McNamee/Mclaughlin.
« Reply #9 on: March 01, 2018, 10:10:49 AM »
No worries Eileen, I'm afraid it's another 'unknown' from me for now, I do have a couple who are possible candidates for being the parents of Sarah Jane McLaughlin, but they are even more speculative than the couple I suggested for John McNamee's parents in my previous post, lol, so definitely a case of just noting the following until it can be ruled in or out.

To recap, the information we know from the 1873 marriage record of Sarah Jane McLaughlin to John McNamee (at Doneyloop Church - I said Derryloop in mistake previously) included that she was a 20 year old spinster, a house keeper residing in Sion Mills, father given as Daniel McLaughlin, labourer.

The name Daniel McLaughlin (and variants) was like confetti on the ground for that era.  While I couldn't find a baptism online for Sarah Jane, there was a couple called Daniel McLaughlin and Rebecca Sharkey who lived in Sion Mills and had a son Hugh in 1865, ie. post civil registration:

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1865/03553/2308217.pdf

Note also that Hugh was baptised in Doneyloop Church.  Fast forward a couple of decades and shift well east to Belfast, when the following marriages occurred, not sure if related or not:

- 1881, St. Patrick's, William McLaughlin of Caroline Street married Margaret Magee, his parents given as Daniel and Rebecca McLaughlin, one witness was Rebecca McLaughlin;
- 1886, St. Patrick's, Daniel McLaughlin of Nelson Street married Margaret Smith, his parents given as Daniel and Rebecca McLaughlin;
- 1887, St. Patrick's, Rebecca McLoughlin of Nelson Street married Michael Donaghy, her parents given as Daniel McLoughlin and Rebecca Sharkey;
- 1890, St. Peter's, Hugh McLoughlin of 39 Getty Street married Elizabeth Mullan, his parents given as Daniel and Rebecca McLaughlin;

Very small point, but dispensation was sought on all the above, just maybe reflecting that these McLaughlins were from a different parish?
     
BTW, there was another couple called Daniel McLaughlin and Rebecca Sharkey who married in Belfast in 1899, unconnected with the above, but it just goes to show how common the names were.

Really flimsy stuff, but on the premise that the parents of Sarah Jane might just have gone on to have a son Hugh post civil registration, that's the suggestion for now.


Tipperdarby

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Re: McNamee/Mclaughlin.
« Reply #10 on: March 01, 2018, 03:49:25 PM »
No worries Eileen, I'm afraid it's another 'unknown' from me for now, I do have a couple who are possible candidates for being the parents of Sarah Jane McLaughlin, but they are even more speculative than the couple I suggested for John McNamee's parents in my previous post, lol, so definitely a case of just noting the following until it can be ruled in or out.

To recap, the information we know from the 1873 marriage record of Sarah Jane McLaughlin to John McNamee (at Doneyloop Church - I said Derryloop in mistake previously) included that she was a 20 year old spinster, a house keeper residing in Sion Mills, father given as Daniel McLaughlin, labourer.

The name Daniel McLaughlin (and variants) was like confetti on the ground for that era.  While I couldn't find a baptism online for Sarah Jane, there was a couple called Daniel McLaughlin and Rebecca Sharkey who lived in Sion Mills and had a son Hugh in 1865, ie. post civil registration:

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1865/03553/2308217.pdf

Note also that Hugh was baptised in Doneyloop Church.  Fast forward a couple of decades and shift well east to Belfast, when the following marriages occurred, not sure if related or not:

- 1881, St. Patrick's, William McLaughlin of Caroline Street married Margaret Magee, his parents given as Daniel and Rebecca McLaughlin, one witness was Rebecca McLaughlin;
- 1886, St. Patrick's, Daniel McLaughlin of Nelson Street married Margaret Smith, his parents given as Daniel and Rebecca McLaughlin;
- 1887, St. Patrick's, Rebecca McLoughlin of Nelson Street married Michael Donaghy, her parents given as Daniel McLoughlin and Rebecca Sharkey;
- 1890, St. Peter's, Hugh McLoughlin of 39 Getty Street married Elizabeth Mullan, his parents given as Daniel and Rebecca McLaughlin;

Very small point, but dispensation was sought on all the above, just maybe reflecting that these McLaughlins were from a different parish?
     
BTW, there was another couple called Daniel McLaughlin and Rebecca Sharkey who married in Belfast in 1899, unconnected with the above, but it just goes to show how common the names were.

Really flimsy stuff, but on the premise that the parents of Sarah Jane might just have gone on to have a son Hugh post civil registration, that's the suggestion for now.
Thanks again CMcG....while it is speculative, what is interesting to note is that Sarah and Johnís first daughter was Rebecca and one of their sons was Daniel. .mind you, they seem to have been common names back in the day.
Eileen

CMcG

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Re: McNamee/Mclaughlin.
« Reply #11 on: March 01, 2018, 04:11:14 PM »

Thanks again CMcG....while it is speculative, what is interesting to note is that Sarah and Johnís first daughter was Rebecca and one of their sons was Daniel. ..mind you, they seem to have been common names back in the day.
Eileen


And that is the main issue you correctly highlight Eileen, fingers crossed for you that Bernard McNamee & Margaret Lynch, or Daniel McLaughlin & Rebecca Sharkey, can either be conclusively celebrated or taken off the table entirely in future posts, both are just speculative punts at this point, but there are some great folk with great knowledge responding here.  Should you get any additional info to assist the search, just post it.   :)


Tipperdarby

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Re: McNamee/Mclaughlin.
« Reply #12 on: March 12, 2018, 06:14:13 PM »
And that is the main issue you correctly highlight Eileen, fingers crossed for you that Bernard McNamee & Margaret Lynch, or Daniel McLaughlin & Rebecca Sharkey, can either be conclusively celebrated or taken off the table entirely in future posts, both are just speculative punts at this point, but there are some great folk with great knowledge responding here.  Should you get any additional info to assist the search, just post it.   :)

CMcG,
I came across some info yesterday that has me going off on a bit of a tangent. My Mother had written out what she knew of her family history and reading it over reminded me of a connection. My Dadís brother John married a Maggie McNamee and her father was James brother of John McNamee married to Sarah McLaughlin. According to my Mom, John and Sarah and family left Tyrone for Belfast and James went wth them. Other brothers fled the country because of political uprising and went to the US and some to Scotland.
John and Sarah settled in Ligoniel and James lived in the Dock area.
On the 1911 census it shows James living in Artillery Street with his wife Elizabeth, son James and daughter Maggie.

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Antrim/Dock_Ward/Artillery_Street/136181/

I then found his marriage in 1903 to Lizzie Mc Burney

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1903/10233/5724337.pdf

Since it stated he was a widower I checked to see where he was in the 1901 census and found him in North Queen Street married to Ellen,

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Antrim/St__Anne_s_Ward/North_Queen_Street/959918/

I cannot find either her death or their marriage but I found the birth f a James McNamee in Strabane in 1874

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1874/03126/2146492.pdf
Father is Bernard and Mother is Jane Harkin
Their marriage was in 1867 so I am wondering if they had other children

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details-civil/5b7c2b1653911?b=https%3A%2F%2Fcivilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie%2Fchurchrecords%2Fcivil-perform-search.jsp%3Fnamefm%3DJane%2B%26namel%3DHarkin%26location%3DStrabane%26yyfrom%3D1867%26yyto%3D%26type%3DM%26submit%3DSearch
Since my ggfather John was born about 1852 perhaps this is a second marriage and he and James are half brothers? My Mom and my aunt
 Maggie stated they were brothers, they seems pretty sure of that fact.

So, CMcG. .all of this to say that perhaps Bernard McNamee and Margaret Lynch are not part of my tree???

As always, thanks for reading this long winded missive!
Eileen


CMcG

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Re: McNamee/Mclaughlin.
« Reply #13 on: March 17, 2018, 08:01:24 AM »
Still mulling away here Eileen, but not getting anywhere fast, lol.  That gap is indeed quite large between John McNamee b. 1852 and James McNamee b. mid 1870s (if his age in the census returns is to be believed, though they are quite consistent between 1901 and 1911).  The James born to Bernard McNamee and Jane Harkin was one of twins, miraculously born 3 days apart (I don't know why the registrar accepted that, lol, though you can see that one of the birth dates was a correction):

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1874/03126/2146492.pdf

The problem I have is that the Bernard McNamee who married Jane Harkin in 1867 was stated to be a bachelor, not a widower.  I suppose that could be a mistake, I've seen it before, but it is rare and the default assumption must be that it is correct, otherwise research becomes chaos. His and her age at marriage were given as 'full age' so no clues there either.  However, Bernard's father was also stated to be called Bernard, a weaver, so is there a chance that the story has got garbled and that it was Bernard McNamee (who married Jane Harkin) who was a brother of John McNamee (who married Sarah Jane McLaughlin)?


Tipperdarby

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Re: McNamee/Mclaughlin.
« Reply #14 on: March 17, 2018, 02:48:59 PM »
Still mulling away here Eileen, but not getting anywhere fast, lol.  That gap is indeed quite large between John McNamee b. 1852 and James McNamee b. mid 1870s (if his age in the census returns is to be believed, though they are quite consistent between 1901 and 1911).  The James born to Bernard McNamee and Jane Harkin was one of twins, miraculously born 3 days apart (I don't know why the registrar accepted that, lol, though you can see that one of the birth dates was a correction):

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1874/03126/2146492.pdf

The problem I have is that the Bernard McNamee who married Jane Harkin in 1867 was stated to be a bachelor, not a widower.  I suppose that could be a mistake, I've seen it before, but it is rare and the default assumption must be that it is correct, otherwise research becomes chaos. His and her age at marriage were given as 'full age' so no clues there either.  However, Bernard's father was also stated to be called Bernard, a weaver, so is there a chance that the story has got garbled and that it was Bernard McNamee (who married Jane Harkin) who was a brother of John McNamee (who married Sarah Jane McLaughlin)?

So James would be Johnís nephew then.  makes more sense with the disparity in age. (mind you my husband is 22 years older than his youngest brother. .those French Canadian Catholics had huge families like the Irish Catholics lol.)
Darn it, sure doesnít help finding Johnís siblings. They are the ones that my Mom spoke of as leaving for the USA and Scotland because of political uprising.
I bought a one month subscription to ancestry.ca very recently and I find it very user friendly for doing a tree, not so much for research....too many places to search for a newbie like me.
I do have a great story that happened a few nights ago while I was inputting data, I will tell you later as I have to go out for a bit.
Thanks for everything
Eileen