Author Topic: Collins Family 1917 - 1950 17 Ton Street, looking for family tree information  (Read 1054 times)

KEW2019

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I have been researching my family tree and I have got stuck with both my Grandfather and Great Grandfather, both called Thomas Collins. 

It has taken me a while to get as far as I have, as there was a lot of mis information and rumours to unpick.  Below is some of what I have found, most I have been able to evidence and reference, but I am missing a date of death for my Great Grandfather, and location of burial for both.   If anyone can help with this, that would be great – or suggest some other sources to try?

Thomas Collins (b. abt 1880 in Co Meath), died sometime between 1951 and 1960?
Thomas Albert Collins (b 19/09/1917 d. 24/10/1950)


Resident between 1917* and 1950 – 17 Ton Street, Falls, Belfast.
*Earliest record I can find of them at that address.

Also I would really like to know more about the Collins family.  It would be great to see some photos and fill in some of the gaps.

Thank you

1911 Census 26 Servia Street (Falls)
Thomas Collins – Aged 31 (Head of Household, married for 9 years), place of birth Co Meath
Alice Collins – Aged 30 (Wife, married for 9 years), place of birth Co Louth
Mary Alice Collins – Aged 5 (Daughter)   
Patrick Collins – Aged 3  (Son)
Maggie Collins – Aged 2 (Daughter)
Mary Kate Connor – Aged 40 (Sister to Alice Collins)
Mary Jane Collins – Aged 35 (Thomas Collins Sister)
James McEntegart – Aged 40 (Brother in law, assume married to Mary Jane Collins, as the census record shows that both had been married for 12 years).

Family rumour also mentions a further sibling called Billy who died in London in 1930 – I can not find anything  to substantiate this.

Thomas Collins (the elder) recorded as still living at 17 Ton Street 1950 (lennonwylie.co.uk)
I know he was alive in 1950, but I can’t find a record of his death, I have searched PRONI and online Church burial records. 

Thomas Albert Collins (b 19/09/1917 d. 24/10/1950)
Thomas Albert Collins, b. 19 September 1917, 17 Ton Street Belfast  (Birth Certificate confirms this), parents Alice Collins (nee Connor) and father Thomas Collins.

On Thomas Albert’s Birth Certificate it states that the father Thomas Collins was a Soldier and in France at the time of the registration.

Maggie his sister also known as Molly Collins (from oral history) brought up Thomas Albert, as his mother Alice Collins passed in September 1918. 

Maggie/Molly (Margaret) lived a long life and passed in 1998? in Belfast, and I believe married to a Henry McCabe, a Harry McCabe was found registered to 17 Ton Street in 1960.

Thomas Albert Collins born 19th September 1917, died 24th October 1950, Thomas Collins Father was present at the death.


CMcG

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Can't help with the deaths/burials of Thomas senior and junior, but note that GRONI online shows a marriage took place between a Henry McCabe and a Mary Collins on 20 May 1926, registered Belfast:

https://geni.nidirect.gov.uk/ (pay to view)

The free 'irishgenealogy' website shows birth registrations for parents Thomas Collins and Alice Connor in respect of Catherine Collins in 1911 and Joseph Collins in 1913 (both at 17 Ton Street):

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1911/01512/1614445.pdf

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1913/01433/1587880.pdf

Joseph died in 1914:
 
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1914/05290/4470625.pdf

Not sure why the 1911 census return said '12 years married' for James McEntegart and Mary Jane Collins, for this looks like their marriage in 1905:

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1905/10170/5700282.pdf

However, the couple previously had a son Bernard in 1901, so maybe that was the basis of the marriage assumption (the 1911 census return said 1 child born, none living) - note, all Ton Street addresses again:

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1901/01935/1748835.pdf

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1902/05689/4603516.pdf (death)

If there are any images posted above that are important to you, take your own copy - I cannot guarantee they will appear indefinitely.

CMcG

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In the 1902 marriage registration for Thomas Collins, the bride Alice was recorded as living in Ropewalk, the daughter of Patrick Connor ...

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1902/10273/5738950.pdf

That would seem to read across to these folk in the 1901 census:

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Louth/Fair_Gate/Roperwalk/1567287/

The best 'fit', in terms of baptisms/births for the children in the above census return, points to the parents possibly being Patrick Connor and Alice Culligan/Collogan/Colgan, for example, Alice junior's birth in 1881:

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1881/02806/2029644.pdf

BTW, this looks like Thomas Collins and Alice Connor's first child James Christopher born at 'Ropewalk' in 1903:

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1904/01839/1717961.pdf

James died at Ton Street Belfast in 1905, hence the 1911 census reference to 4 children born and 3 children living:

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1905/05581/4567725.pdf

The birth registrations for the other children - Mary Alice, Patrick and Maggie - all have various Ton Street addresses.

In relation to Thomas Collins' origin  (the 1902 marriage registration gave father as James Collins, which ties in with the stated father for Mary Jane Collins in the 1905 marriage to James Entegart), there are a couple of baptisms for St. Mary's parish Drogheda which are of note.  Firstly, the following Mary Jane Collins born 5 September 1877 and baptised  for parents James Collins and Mary Jane 'McKeogh' of Dale, which is an area to the south of Drogheda town in Co. Meath ie. just south of the Louth/Meath border (bottom of left page):

https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000635276#page/63/mode/1up     
 
Interestingly, the mother's surname is given as 'McGough' in the relevant civil registration record:

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1877/02988/2095081.pdf

Same parish of St. Mary's, a Thomas Collins born on 29 April 1880 was baptised for parents James Collins and Mary Jane McGough of Dale (left page, 7th entry down):

https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000635276#page/91/mode/1up

Couldn't find Thomas' civil birth registration, but this looks like a reasonable possibility for the parents of Thomas and Mary Jane in the 1911 census.
 
If there are any images posted above that are important to you, take your own copy - I cannot guarantee they will appear indefinitely.

KEW2019

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CMcG this is incredible thank you so much.  It all fits with other info I have.  I am now further that I have been ever. I had the name James Collins from Drohega, but didn’t have the rest of the jigsaw. 

This is really is quite phenomenal, thank you so much.


JimG

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CmcG brings the starting point of this Collins ancestry factually connecting up to James Collins the father and Mary Jane 'McKeogh' of Dale sometimes aka as McGough. That was an achievment itself.  The Dale area in South Drogheda in St Marys parish has been recently up graded by the local community, it is not well covered as an area.

Casting the net backwards  ~Griffiths valuation contains just one entry for a Collins in St Marys civil Parish, Co Meath, a
John Collins of Bryanstown townland I cant open askaboutireland website this evening its so busy
I didnt find McKeogh or McGough in https://www.failteromhat.com/post1845.php in meath perhaps I should have tried  Co Louth

I tried the Tithe Applotment Books http://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie/search/tab/results.jsp?surname=collins&firstname=&county=Meath&parish=St+marys&townland=&search=Search
Collins      Coofer of Drogheder   St Mary's Drogheda   Meath   1834
Collins   M   Brianstown   St Mary's Drogheda   Meath   1834
both entries if opened show the actual single line entry for both
 
Overall it shows the Collins family name known for nearly 200 years in the area
before that needs much further researchgood luck onwards

KEW2019

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Thank you JimG I will dig some further, I still can’t quite believe how far I’ve got in just a few days.  Especially after not getting very far for a year!

I found another child for James & Mary Jane, Rose Collins 16th May 1875. Another down as McGough.  I also found James death certificate that matches the Old Hill location,  he passed in 1894.

It all points back to St Mary’s parish, I’ll have to visit it now :)

Thank you all for your help. 


CMcG

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... I found another child for James & Mary Jane, Rose Collins 16th May 1875 ...


In addition to Rose...

Anne born 1883:

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1883/02750/2010328.pdf

Christopher born 1887:

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1887/02549/1943500.pdf

I can also see a marriage on 22 June 1864 in St. Peter's parish Drogheda for a James Collins and Mary Jane McGough witnessed by Francis and Eliza Burke (left page, 3rd entry down):

https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000632564#page/204/mode/1up

And the following 2 children were born to James Collins and Mary Jane McGeough / McGeown of Mell just north of the river Boyne in Drogheda (and about a mile north of the Dale):

James born 1866:
 
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1866/03509/2290545.pdf

Philip born 1868 :

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1868/03421/2254846.pdf (a transcript of the Mellifont parish registers shows a Philip Collins baptised in November 1868 for James Collins and Jane 'McGough' of Mell)

If there are any images posted above that are important to you, take your own copy - I cannot guarantee they will appear indefinitely.

CMcG

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... James born 1866:
 
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1866/03509/2290545.pdf


I also suspect that this might be the above James (born 1866) in the 1911 census:

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Antrim/Falls__Belfast_/Plevna_Street/181610/

Two reasons for thinking this:

1. When the James Collins in the above census return married Mary Anne Flood in St. Peter's Drogheda in 1888, his given address was the Dale and his father was given as James Collins:

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1888/10775/5929807.pdf

2. The address given in the registration of their daughter Margaret's birth in Belfast in 1905 was 7 Ton Street:

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1905/01798/1705194.pdf

If there are any images posted above that are important to you, take your own copy - I cannot guarantee they will appear indefinitely.

CMcG

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If there are any images posted above that are important to you, take your own copy - I cannot guarantee they will appear indefinitely.

CMcG

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Christopher born 1887:

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1887/02549/1943500.pdf


Christopher died in 1890:

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1890/06089/4737603.pdf

Don't know burial details, but Thomas Collins senior died of a heart attack on 15 April 1953 at 17 Ton Street, described as a 70 year old widower, labourer, the informant was his daughter Mary McCabe of 53 McDonnell Street (the 1951 street directory on the Lennon Wylie website shows the resident as '53. McCabe, Mrs. Mary A.', the 1960 street directory shows '53. McCabe, Henry, labourer').

If there are any images posted above that are important to you, take your own copy - I cannot guarantee they will appear indefinitely.

CMcG

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In the 1902 marriage registration for Thomas Collins, the bride Alice was recorded as living in Ropewalk, the daughter of Patrick Connor ...

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1902/10273/5738950.pdf

That would seem to read across to these folk in the 1901 census:

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Louth/Fair_Gate/Roperwalk/1567287/

The best 'fit', in terms of baptisms/births for the children in the above census return, points to the parents possibly being Patrick Connor and Alice Culligan/Collogan/Colgan, for example, Alice junior's birth in 1881:

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1881/02806/2029644.pdf


Alice's older brother Arthur was born at Peter Street in 1879, mother's surname 'Cullaghan', father Patrick described as a Sweep:

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1879/02896/2061440.pdf

Alice's younger brother John was born at Peter Street in 1884, mother's surname 'Culligan', father Patrick described as a Shoemaker - like the sons' occupations in the 1901 census return:

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1884/02703/1995613.pdf

Another brother Ephraim was born at Peter Street in 1870, father Patrick described as 'Shoemaker' and mother's surname given as Colgan:

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1871/03311/2213541.pdf

The earliest sibling I can see is Patrick Connor who was baptised in St. Peter's parish on 22 January 1865, the mother given as Alice Colgan (right page, 2nd entry up from bottom):

https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000632564#page/157/mode/1up

Patrick Connor senior died in 1898, indicative birth year 1842:

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1898/05813/4645747.pdf

Alice Connor senior died in 1910, described as a 'Shoe maker's widow', indicative birth year 1848:

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1910/05436/4520477.pdf

If there are any images posted above that are important to you, take your own copy - I cannot guarantee they will appear indefinitely.

CMcG

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Although the following was in Dublin, it looks like a strong candidate for the Connor - Colgan marriage, especially given the earliest child Patrick that I was able to find, which I mentioned in the previous post.

The marriage took place in St. Nicholas' RC Church Dublin on 21 June 1864 and the parties were recorded as Patritius (Patrick) O'Connor and Alicia (Alice) Cologan (note: the 'irishgenealogy' website has wrongly transcribed it as Maria rather than Alicia), Patrick's parents look like Michael and Catherine, Alice's parents look like Thomas and Anna, but I'm not 100% sure, you can read the rest yourself, the key thing is that the parents' residences were both given as Drogheda (very bottom entry):

https://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/display-pdf.jsp?pdfName=st.nicholas_mf_1822-1880_ma_0227

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CMcG

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... Patrick's parents look like Michael and Catherine, Alice's parents look like Thomas and Anna ...


Much more speculative territory now, but the following shows that a Michael Connor and Cath(erine) Fullam had 2 children (maybe twins) Pat(rick) and Anne baptised in St. Peter's Drogheda on 15 May 1844 (left page, 2nd & 3rd lines up from bottom):

https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000632564#page/18/mode/1up

A couple with the same names had children James and Arthur Connor (again maybe twins) baptised in St. Peter's on 3 April 1843, in this case there was clarification in parentheses that the father was protestant and the mother was  catholic (left page, about halfway down):

https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000632564#page/10/mode/1up

While there was a couple called Thomas Colgan and Anne Farrell having children baptised in St Peter's in the relevant  era, I can't find a baptism for a daughter Alice, perhaps you will have more luck.

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JimG

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the tithes revisited, the transcription seems wrong at top lines, I think its
plot 14 The widow Collins in Legavoren townland with 3 acres valued at £14
plot 202 M Collins has with difficulty reading in Brianstown townland with 1 acres valued at £6 10 shillings perhaps a Michael Collins

Griffiths valuatiom http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/index.xml?action=doNameSearch&Submit.x=43&Submit.y=11&Submit=Submit&familyname=collins&firstname=&baronyname=&countyname=MEATH&unionname=&parishname=

Collins   John   Meath plot no 6 Bryanstown 7 Acres Of Land But Strangely No House??
Unoccupied      Meath Barrack Lane Lagavooren
Collins   Lawrence   Meath James St Lagavooren
Collins   Nicholas   Meath James St Lagavooren
Collins   Pat      Meath New Road Lagavooren
Collins   Catherine   Meath Dublin Road Lagavooren
Collins   Mary      Meath The Dale Lagavooren
Collins   John      Meath Scotch Hall (Off James' Street) Lagavooren
Collins   Anne      Meath Priest's Lane (Off Duleek Gate) Lagavooren
Collins   Anne      Meath Priest's Lane (Off Duleek Gate) Lagavooren
Collins   James      Meath Priest's Lane (Off Duleek Gate) Lagavooren
PRONI has continuation books, but I don’t know if Dublin has available?

CMcG’s spectacular research leads me to rethink my efforts of what I have missed doing in the past.  May you CMcG be deemed an honorary member of the Belfast Forum. KEW2019 the way you started your topic was with enough detail, so its great to read the level of professional response you are receiving. I am printing out the topic as an example of tenacity in family history research using https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/en/.for myself.  My eyesight is worsening and I have sufficient difficulty in spotting the robots questions about traffic lights and bicycles to be put off trying. I now have no excuse, tenacity it has to be, so thank you for the lesson learnt.


CMcG

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That's kind of you JimG, some of the information coming back in the various records made life a bit easier, you know what it's like, sometimes you hit brick wall after brick wall, other times you get some dots that can be joined up.  :)
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