Author Topic: Family history  (Read 678 times)

Surginor

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Family history
« on: January 23, 2019, 10:43:53 PM »
evening folks, Iím trying in vain to research my family tree. The furthest Iíve got is to my great grandfather a James Surginor who lived in Harrison street, Belafast, no date of birth or death. James had three children , stanley( my grandfather) born - 1914, married 1941, died 1968 . Stanley has one brother, William ( Billie) and Elizabeth (Lizzie) no dates. My grandfather Stanley married a Annie Rooney (1941) this is all I have, any assistance would be much appreciated

CMcG

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Re: Family history
« Reply #1 on: January 24, 2019, 01:33:42 AM »
Burial details for grave L2 175 in Belfast City Cemetery can be seen in the Belfast City Council website below:

https://dof.belfastcity.gov.uk/burialsearch/BurialSearch.aspx?GraveSection=L2&GraveNumber=175&CemeteryName=City%20Cemetery%20-%20Glenalina%20Extension

(once in the website click 'View details' to see the individual grave records)


CMcG

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Re: Family history
« Reply #2 on: January 24, 2019, 01:47:04 AM »
Irish General Register Office records are free to view online, the following 2 links are for a Samuel Stanley Surgenor born in 1914 and a Lily Surgenor born in 1915, parents given as James Surgenor and Ellie/Lily Hil(l)dridge:

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1914/01424/1584466.pdf

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1915/01370/1564714.pdf

The marriage of James Surginor and Lilly Heldridge in 1910 can be seen here:

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1910/09997/5635681.pdf

This was the couple in the 1911 census:

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Antrim/Clifton/Cromwell_Street/292682/


CMcG

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Re: Family history
« Reply #3 on: January 24, 2019, 03:09:53 AM »
Belfast Telegraph, 25 October 1952:

SURGENOR - October 24, 1952, at her residence, 21 Harrison Street, Lily, dearly beloved wife of James Surgenor ... Sadly missed by her sorrowing Husband and Son William ... Deeply regretted by her sorrowing Son and Daughter-in-law, Stanley and Ann Surgenor and Grandchildren, 56 Hardcastle Street ... Deeply regretted by her sorrowing Daughter and Son-in-law, Lily and Hugh Graham and Grandson, 101 Emerson Street ... Deeply regretted by her loving Sister and Brother-in-law, Annie and Samuel Jackson, 26 Bann St.; also her sorrowing Niece and Husband and Children, Rachel and Samuel Hildridge, 49 Cliftondene Crescent.


CMcG

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Re: Family history
« Reply #4 on: January 24, 2019, 04:59:04 AM »
The General Register Office NI website has a birth that was registered in Belfast for an Ethel Surgenor who was born on 20 November 1917, the mother's maiden name was recorded as Hildridge, unfortunately Ethel died just under a year later and was buried in the City Cemetery, the death record named her parents as James and Lily:

Death:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1918/05174/4427926.pdf

Burial:
https://dof.belfastcity.gov.uk/burialsearch/BurialRecordDetails.aspx?RecordID=7971.35202

The address in the above records was 57 Louisa Street. Note the following death and burial for an 11 month old Mina/Mena Surgenor of that same address in October 1921:

Death:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1921/05086/4395986.pdf 

Burial:
https://dof.belfastcity.gov.uk/burialsearch/BurialRecordDetails.aspx?RecordID=7993.6429

Note also for that same address, the death of an 8 year old James Surginor in April 1920:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1920/05125/4410695.pdf

James' birth in 1911 was registered with the mother's maiden name as 'Hilderage':
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1911/01512/1614309.pdf


Surginor

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Re: Family history
« Reply #5 on: January 24, 2019, 08:16:29 AM »
Thank you all so much, i can't believe you's were able to find so much that quickly, my dad will be delighted. It makes me consider how much more can be found. Amazing and thanks to everyone!

wb54

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Re: Family history
« Reply #6 on: January 24, 2019, 09:45:21 AM »
 Hi Surginor,
                    Welcome to the forum, great help from CMcG. Should keep you busy for a while.
                    When you work it out, go to the link Belfast Genealogy thatís where it will get
                     better for you.       Good luck ,
                                                          Billy.

CMcG

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Re: Family history
« Reply #7 on: January 24, 2019, 01:32:39 PM »
I struggled initially to tie down a birth for James Surgenor, I can't be 100% but I do have a possibility which is otherwise reasonable, but requires one to be content that:-

(1) James chose to give a more generic description of his father George as a labourer in the 1910 record of marriage to Lily Hildridge, instead of plumber (which isn't that big a deal);
(2) James' age was understated by about 7 years in both the 1910 record of his marriage to Lily Hildridge and the 1911 census return for house 7 in Cromwell Street (his reported age in the burial record was inconsistent with both of these, however reported burial ages can be quite inaccurate) - that's a relatively large variance in age for someone so young, even allowing for the 'looseness' in age of that era.

Anyhow, see what you think of the following, which tracks things backwards to a conclusion from other circumstantial evidence.  Starting with the following marriage of a George Charles Surginor in July 1911, the most important points - other than the fact that his father was cited as George Surginor a plumber - were that his address was 55 Downing Street and that the 2 witnesses were... James and Lily Surginor:

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1911/09954/5619106.pdf

It was a reasonable expectation to see George Charles Surgenor in the 1911 census, given that it was only taken 3 months earlier, and sure enough, here he was living as brother-in-law in the Downing Street household of Joseph and Wilhelmina Morrow (if you click on 'Additional Pages: 2' you will see the street number confirmed as 55):

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Antrim/Court_Ward/Downing_Street/148323/

Wilhelmina Surgenor married Joseph Morrow in 1891, her father in the marriage record was described as George Surginor, a plumber:

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1891/10681/5892604.pdf

Births that fit the age profile for siblings George Charles Surgenor and Wilhelmina Surgenor were easy to find, the parents were George Surgenor a plumber and Mary Elizabeth Templeton:

Wilhelmina:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1873/03200/2173574.pdf   

George Charles:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1885/02650/1977140.pdf     

Continued ...


CMcG

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Re: Family history
« Reply #8 on: January 24, 2019, 01:36:21 PM »
... Continued

George Surgenor the plumber and Mary Elizabeth Templeton married in 1870, his father was recorded as Thomas Surginor a carpenter and hers as John Templeton a sailor, (though George described himself as just 'labourer' in the following marriage record):

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1870/11380/8178533.pdf

George Surgenor the plumber and Mary Elizabeth Templeton went on to have a great many children, I think around 12, but sadly quite a few of them died as young children from various ailments.  One of the children born to this couple was James Cooper Surgener born in Carrickfergus in 1879, which is not consistent with the age of the James in the 1910 marriage record and 1911 census return, but is consistent with the age of the James in the burial record - I believe that this might be your James):

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1879/02911/2066571.pdf

Here are the births of 2 other children of George Surgenor the plumber and Mary Elizabeth Templeton, in order to make 2 final points:

William Allen Surgenor in 1877:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1877/03026/2108976.pdf

Elizabeth Wensley Surgenor in 1891:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1891/02402/1895816.pdf

Point 1 - I think 'Allen' may have morphed into 'Alexander' over time and that the William Allen Surgenor born in 1877 might just be the same person as the William Alexander Surgenor sharing the same grave, as previously posted, for James and Lily Surgenor.

Point 2 - With the birth details established above for William Allen Surgenor, James Cooper Surgenor, George Charles Surgenor and Elizabeth Wensley Surgenor, have a look at the following 1901 census record which is a very good fit bar the 14 year old son being called Charles (which was George junior's middle name after all):
 
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Antrim/Court_Ward/Winburn_Street/947425/

George Surgenor the plumber died in 1910 - though the death record described him as a labourer, it was definitely him,  as the informant was his daughter Wilhelmina Morrow of 55 Downing Street:

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1910/05422/4515436.pdf

Mary (Templeton) Surgenor died before him in 1908, after her clothes caught fire:

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1908/05507/4543183.pdf


Surginor

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Re: Family history
« Reply #9 on: January 24, 2019, 10:30:17 PM »
Simply outstanding work CMcG, I really can't thank you enough. My father never really knew much about his own dad, now we have generations of information thanks to your amazing research. You must have done this sort of thing many times before. I've a keen intrest in Irish archeology and have assisted Queens on a number of digs, i'm going to take all these notes down and draw up a family tree and give it to my father, what a great forum!

stickleback

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Re: Family history
« Reply #10 on: January 26, 2019, 09:33:52 AM »


A round of applause  to CMcG for his/her excellent contributions here.

Excellent work.

JimG

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Re: Family history
« Reply #11 on: January 29, 2019, 10:57:05 PM »
going to bed i noticed and couldnt resist seeing if i could add something to CMcG, who i am sure will have more for us.
1890 street directory lennonwylie.co.uk
110 Ewarts buildings Crumlin Road Mrs Surgenor
14 Hooker st off Crumlin Road  Mrs Surgenor
 
 ancestryireland requiring credits etc but the index is free and worth going for both spellings this extract for births with a father named george and there maybe more than  one George
JANE   SURGINOR     1872   GEORGE                     
JANE ALLEN  SURGINOR     1872   GEORGE         Antrim           
JANE ALLEN  SURGINOR     1872   GEORGE         Antrim           
WILHELMINA           SURGINOR     1873   GEORGE         Antrim           
ALICESURGINOR     1873   WILLIAM       Antrim           
WILHEMINASURGINOR     1873   GEORGE         Antrim           
ELLEN JONES            SURGINOR     1874   GEORGE         Antrim           
WILLIAM       SURGINOR     1875   WILLIAM       Antrim           
MARY ELIZASURGINOR     1875   GEORGE         Antrim
ROBERT EDWARD  SURGINOR     1883   GEORGE         Antrim           
GEORGE CHARLES  SURGINOR     1885   GEORGE         Antrim           
WALTER       SURGINOR     1886   GEORGE         Antrim           
JOHN PORTER          SURGINOR     1888   GEORGE         Antrim
 goodnight all