Author Topic: Holywood drowning  (Read 486 times)

Tipperdarby

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Holywood drowning
« on: January 29, 2019, 08:25:19 PM »
i wonder if anyone who has access to Newspapers could help.
What I have been told is that a young boy, surname McFall fell off a wall in Holywood into the sea and drowned. I suspect this was between 1897, when his Mother died, and maybe 1905.
I believe he was staying with family in Holywood. His uncle James McFall lived at 1 Stewart’s Place in 1901 but he may have been staying with Henry McFall, a sea captain and his wife Isabella.  I cannot find Henry on the census.
Thank you

Eileen

CMcG

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Re: Holywood drowning
« Reply #1 on: January 30, 2019, 12:09:52 PM »
Eileen I drew a blank on this, I couldn't find a newspaper reference to a McFall boy drowning at that location in that period.  Nor could I see a good fit for a death record or a coroner's inquest entry...  Do you have any other information about this?


JimG

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Re: Holywood drowning
« Reply #2 on: January 30, 2019, 11:15:43 PM »

at first I thought it was a donaghadee family who lost 2 children between 1901 and 1911 census. have you no first name?
 sadly all the photos of donaghadee tombstones by Bill Cardwell have been taken dropped by talktalk webspace .

emerald ancestors has the death of a henry mcfall in 1907 co antrim
sorry I cannot be more helpful.


Tipperdarby

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Re: Holywood drowning
« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2019, 06:19:08 AM »
Eileen I drew a blank on this, I couldn't find a newspaper reference to a McFall boy drowning at that location in that period.  Nor could I see a good fit for a death record or a coroner's inquest entry...  Do you have any other information about this?
Thank you as always CMcG and thank you also Jim G.
Of course there is a story here.

My 2XGr Uncle was Cornelius McFall, a Cabinet Maker, and he married Mary McClusky in Glasgow in 1877. I know of one daughter, Elizabeth,  born in Scotland in 1880 and another, Esther born in Lancashire in 1881. They were back in Belfast by 1882 when their 3rd daughter Ellen was born. These 3 children died in 1884 and 1885. As far as I know they had 6 more children all born in Belfast, 5 girls and a boy Cornelius. One of the daughters Mary died at 5 weeks in 1890. Mary, the mother died in 1897 and apparently the father farmed out hs daughters to various relatives. I believe his son must have continued to live with his father because he died in 1902 at age 15 from heart disease and his address was 162 Cosgrave St with his father in attendance and his address is the same as the son’s on the Death Certificate. The young Cornelius was a French Polisher. His daughters did not ever see their father again after this.
What I have been told is that the father then took to drink, lost his home at 10 Limestone Road and died in 1918 in the Workhouse address given as Avoca St. In the 1911 census he lived alone at Hill St.

One of his daughters was Agnes, born in 1891 and apparently she was the one who spoke of her younger brother’s death by drowning after falling off a wall in Holywood. (The only younger sibling I can find is a sister Frances born in 1895) The story is that Agnes was about 10 and was with him when he fell.
Agnes’s son wrote in his diary when his Mother died in 1984 that she was affected by this all her life. Her son spoke of this event until he died 10 years ago.
I have 2 theories.
Whatever family she lived with after her Mother’s death had a son who died by drowning and she thought of him as her brother or she was affected by the death of her brother Cornelius in 1902 and I have no idea then where the drowning story comes in to play.
Any and all comments are welcome.

An added interesting piece of news about this family is that Cornelius had a younger brother James McFall who was a famous Harp Maker. I have received some quite fascinating info on him over the past few days. Apparently McFall Harps are still being produced today.
Sorry this is so long

Eileen

CMcG

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Re: Holywood drowning
« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2019, 12:42:31 PM »
Agnes' younger sibling was indeed registered at birth as Frances (a girl) on 1 February 1895, but was most definitely registered at death - due to bronchitis  only 3 weeks later - as a boy (Francis).  If the latter registration is correct and given that Agnes was just shy of 4 years old, I wonder if she 'mis-remembered' this traumatic event, for example, maybe conflating it with a drowning she was aware of when she was young that didn't involve a family member?

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1895/05944/4688699.pdf


Tipperdarby

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Re: Holywood drowning
« Reply #5 on: January 31, 2019, 02:39:16 PM »
Agnes' younger sibling was indeed registered at birth as Frances (a girl) on 1 February 1895, but was most definitely registered at death - due to bronchitis  only 3 weeks later - as a boy (Francis).  If the latter registration is correct and given that Agnes was just shy of 4 years old, I wonder if she 'mis-remembered' this traumatic event, for example, maybe conflating it with a drowning she was aware of when she was young that didn't involve a family member?

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1895/05944/4688699.pdf

Thank you CMcG. .I even thought of that baby being a boy Francis but I looked for deaths around the time of the so called “drowning”.
I think we can all agree that she did not have a brother who drowned.
As always, you have been a great help.
Eileen

CMcG

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Re: Holywood drowning
« Reply #6 on: January 31, 2019, 05:25:18 PM »

... I think we can all agree that she did not have a brother who drowned ...


Unless fresh eyes find something ...

BTW, I looked at several trees on the 'Ancestry' website for this family and there was no mention in them of a potential child to Cornelius and Mary who died and was buried in Milltown Cemetery in 1893 (stillborn), the address was recorded as 10 Limestone Road Belfast. Just in case you don't have this reference...

17124

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Re: Holywood drowning
« Reply #7 on: January 31, 2019, 05:38:45 PM »
Hi Eileen
The only Francil McFall, father Cornelius, of 10 Limestone Rd, died 21 Feb 1895 3 wks old from Bronchitishttps://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1895/05944/4688699.pdf
Not sure if that helps?


Tipperdarby

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Re: Holywood drowning
« Reply #8 on: January 31, 2019, 07:51:19 PM »
Unless fresh eyes find something ...

BTW, I looked at several trees on the 'Ancestry' website for this family and there was no mention in them of a potential child to Cornelius and Mary who died and was buried in Milltown Cemetery in 1893 (stillborn), the address was recorded as 10 Limestone Road Belfast. Just in case you don't have this reference...
CMcG,  I don’t have a reference to a stillborn child born in 1893. Where would I find that? Did you see my tree? It is a work in progress of course but, thanks to you, it has expanded considerably.
Is it any wonder the man turned to drink? His poor wife, giving birth to all those babies and so many of them died.
Eileen

Tipperdarby

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Re: Holywood drowning
« Reply #9 on: January 31, 2019, 07:54:07 PM »
Hi Eileen
The only Francil McFall, father Cornelius, of 10 Limestone Rd, died 21 Feb 1895 3 wks old from Bronchitishttps://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1895/05944/4688699.pdf
Not sure if that helps?

Hi you!
Yes thank you. CMcG gave me that one and it does help.
I will be in touch soon, I have been very occupied with the McFalls for the past few weeks. I will be back to our JON soon.
Eileen

CMcG

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Re: Holywood drowning
« Reply #10 on: January 31, 2019, 08:21:29 PM »

I'm afraid there's no other information in the record, other than 'sexton's number 25402', it is a Milltown Cemetery transcription for which I can find no civil birth/death registration, the specific date of 31 August 1893 may be a death or burial date.


17124

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Re: Holywood drowning
« Reply #11 on: January 31, 2019, 08:41:25 PM »
Looking at the Milltown Cemetery records on UHF - Cornelius McFall 31/08/1893 aged 0yrs (stillborn child of)

Tipperdarby

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Re: Holywood drowning
« Reply #12 on: February 01, 2019, 03:02:04 AM »
Looking at the Milltown Cemetery records on UHF - Cornelius McFall 31/08/1893 aged 0yrs (stillborn child of)
Thank you both.
Eileen