Author Topic: James HOGG, weaver of Belfast  (Read 516 times)

JoB

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James HOGG, weaver of Belfast
« on: February 06, 2019, 01:42:01 PM »
HiI have John HOGG born about 1818 in Belfast who married Sarah CHAMBERS in 1846 Linen Hall St Church- witnesses were James and Jacob HOGG.Fathers were James HOGG, weaver and William CHAMBERS, weaver, of Ardoyne.
I am wanting to find any information on James and Jacob HOGG ( I have assumed they are brothers but could be father and brother) and the CHAMBERS family.
The marriage was announced in a couple of newspapers, but no parent details were mentioned.I found a reference to a Jacob HOGG in the papers where it seems he was a fireman ( his boss played a trick on him!) - there was another one, a bricklayer- this latter fellow may be Jacob Hill HOGG who emigrated to Australia as he was referred to as a 'builder' by then.
John & Sarah moved to Gloucestershire - Sarah died 1858 and John re-married- he died 1868 aged 50.
If anyone is related or can offer help as to what happened to the rest of their families, I would really appreciate it.

Elwyn was extremely helpful a few years ago in finding the marriage and I am eternally grateful.I have recently done 2 DNA tests and find I have over 150 connections to this HOGG family ( many are in the southern states of the USA which surprised me) but have  absolutely no idea how they are all related to me!Many thanksJo

JimG

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Re: James HOGG, weaver of Belfast
« Reply #1 on: February 06, 2019, 08:02:38 PM »

 in case anything below  is unknown to you

Ros davies website see http://www.rosdavies.com/SURNAMES/H/HobHol.htm#hol
John HOGG Belfast     from Belfast; son of James Hogg (a weaver); married Sarah Chambers of Belfast 30 Mar 1846 Linen Hall Presbyterian Church, Belfast, witnesses were John's brother's Jacob Hogg & James Hogg ; moved to Bristol UK; father of Thomas b.c. 1847 & Susannah (married Frederick Castro) & grandfater of Lily (emigrated to New Zealand in 1910) ; died of TB in 1868   MC; Jo Bond I suggest contact with Jo Brand

Manuscript family trees Mr blackwood wea most interested in Co Down  families but other counties allow continuity
Some references for Hogg family trees, in the Blackwood Family History manuscript trees Collection in the LinenHall library, Belfast. if you cant visit then I suggest you write to them asking them for photocopying estimates only if they think your knowledge relevant and be prepared to pay the extra for post and packing if you are tempted.  the following is out of date but gives you the some idea of information followup.   “The Library welcomes all research enquiries, whether made in person, by phone, fax, letter or e-mail. Enquiries from members will be answered free of charge. Visitors from afar, and in particular those engaged in serious research projects, are recommended to make prior contact with the Library to ensure that they receive the best possible service. More complex enquiries should be made by letter, fax, or e-mail. Enquiries of this kind from within the British Isles will normally be answered free of charge, apart from any copying and postage charges. A minimum charge of £2 will normally be made in respect of overseas enquiries. A4 photocopies b&w are 20p.  The Library may be able to assist those with more extensive research requirements on terms subject to negotiation with the Librarian. Contact the Library for further information on [email protected] or Telephone 028 9032 1707. Their address is The Linen Hall Library,17 Donegall Square North, Belfast BT15GB, Northern Ireland, see their website for contact details or use Email:[email protected]
The volume referenc
HOGG   Volume 11 with notes either beside tree or at back of volume.the same at Vol 38.  38N,  Volume 91 is a more special volume why Ic ant tell you.91
Hoping this is includes new information for you
good luck, Jim
ps However if the material is really relevant when you get it, I suggest a further donation to this unique library that is always needing extra funds.

tithe Applotment Books Shankill parish no Hoggs found
Haugh, James                 Townland : Upper Malone Year: 1826
Haugh, William   Townland : Upper Malone Year: 1826

street directories see
 lennonwylie
1805,1806,1807,1808  no Haugh or Hogg e listed
1819
Hogg, John, blacksmith, Mary Street
1843
Hogg, Robert, District Officer of Excise, 26 Townsend Street.
Hogg, William, Grocer, 30 Ann Street.
Hogg, John, Jobbing Smith, 15 Pilot Street.
PRONI
1831
Hogg Margaret publican 114 Ann Street
1835
Hogg, John, blacksmith, 5 Boyd’s Court
1839
Hogg James letterpress printer 1 park St
Hogg, John, Jobbing Smith, 9 Pilot Street.
Hogg, Robert baker 45 Durham St
Hogg, Robert, District Officer of Excise, 110 Peters Hill 
1841
Hogg, Robert, District Officer of Excise, 26 Townsend Street.
1842
Hogg, William, Grocer, 30 Ann Street.
Hogg, John, Jobbing Smith, 15 Pilot Street.
Hogg, Robert, District Officer of Excise, Townsend Street.

search for emmigrant Hoggs
http://www.dippam.ac.uk/ie
a William Hog passenger for new york
Died,On his passage to North America, in June last, Mr Robert Hogg,
youngest brother of the Ettrick Shepherd.
this potential source needs exhausting

 i doubt but hope something is new for you i didnt search Clifton St cemetry or Friars Bush

JimG

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Re: James HOGG, weaver of Belfast
« Reply #2 on: February 06, 2019, 09:48:22 PM »
Hi JoB, i am a bit slow! JimG

JimG

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Re: James HOGG, weaver of Belfast
« Reply #3 on: February 08, 2019, 06:31:32 PM »
Jo Brand was a typo, apologies JimG

JoB

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Re: James HOGG, weaver of Belfast
« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2019, 09:02:41 AM »
Hi JimG
Firstly, apologies for the late reply-I wasn't anywhere near a computer for a few days! Secondly- MANY THANKS for doing all that work for me- I can't believe how much you found and checked!I will take your advice and contact the Linenhall Library- it will be my pleasure to make a donation.The directories were interesting- I am now wondering if there are records in Ardoyne where Sarah CHAMBERS was from - her father William CHAMBERS was a weaver there...I don't know where John's father, James HOGG, was working.I am assuming they must have at least some small social standing as at least 2 marriage notices were placed in the local papers- correct me if I am wrong!
I will now take a look at the links you posted- many thanks again ( and don't worry about the Brand business-lol-!)I'll ppst back if I find anythingCheersJo

JimG

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Re: James HOGG, weaver of Belfast
« Reply #5 on: February 11, 2019, 06:47:20 PM »

Apart from source JoB, Ros Davies website quotes MC which stands for Marriage certificate. my question were there anything more specific of where the parties lived other than Belfast and Ardoyne . if not why are John Hogg and Sarah Chambers entered under Co Down.  ie in Ros Davies at all.

 I made a quick generation tree of both Chambers and Hogg to help me search, so any result found is added in to that
c3.  William Chambers a weaver Ardoyne the only record found in 1796 flax growers of Ireland the only William chambers found in Dunluce parish. Lennonwylie Street directories 1808 1805, 1819 Chambers, Brice & Co., wine & spirit merchants, 17 Ann Street
A john Chambers gardener 5 Corr’s Row in 1819 directory  . a William  Chambers b 1820 co antrim has a treeholder Lynn in Genes reunited
children
c3.1 Sarah Chambers   .of Belfast m 30 Mar 1846 Linen Hall Presbyterian Church, Belfast, John Hogg of Belfastwitnesses were John's brother's Jacob Hogg & James Hogg ; moved to Bristol UK; mother of Thomas b.c. 1847 & Susannah (married Frederick Castro) & grandmother of Lily (emigrated to New Zealand in 1910) ; died of diabetes in 1858   

h3.father Hogg  also Hog
children
h3.1. John Hogg b 1808 Why is John Hogg listed under Co Down Miss   Sarah   CHAMBERS
Did John Hogg become a commercial traveller and spend census day in 1851 at the Marr’s inn in Mayton Gate Holy Trinity, Kingston upon Hull, Yorkshire, (East Riding)
children 
h3.1.1 Thomas Hogg  b.c. 1847
h3.1.2 & Susannah Hogg m Frederick Castro)
children
Lily Castro (emigrated to New Zealand in 1910) ; died of diabetes in 1858
h3.2.   james  if b 1800 Belfast has a treeholder Martin in Genes reunited
h3.3.  Jacob  if b 1810 Belfast has two treeholdersA Michael and a Peter in Genes reunited

 from the tithes applotment records
Haugh, James-Townland : Upper Malone Year: 1826-Shankill-Antrim
Haugh, William-Townland : Upper Malone Year: 1826-Shankill-Antrim

from http://www.dippam.ac.uk/ied/
would be emigrant William Hog with passage on the triton for New York
asked to contact Belfast office in Feb 1812

sources newspapers
https://www.ucs.louisiana.edu/cgi-bin/belfst/Search.cgi covers 1738-1800
 
Ardoyne records are poor as a district until after 1850, it is treated a village outside Belfast see Lennonwylie

Weaver records might be at Ulster Folk Museum, The linen museum Lisburn.

running out of steam
hoping something new for you. 
Good luck

JoB

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Re: James HOGG, weaver of Belfast
« Reply #6 on: February 13, 2019, 07:12:44 AM »
Hi again and many thanks for your amazing reserach - I can imagine how you feel - I have got the same - looking, looking, looking, never never getting!!!
Now to answer your question - the marriage cert is quite faded but only states John HOGG is from Belfast and Sarah CHAMBERS from Ardoyne, Belfast- plus John's occupation - which looks like ' salesman' ( which he was but MIGHT be Fireman ), and the father's names and occupations ( both weavers). Rev. KNOX officiated.....I don't know why Ros put the info under Co Down, but it comes up on google very quickly ( which I like!!)
John HOGG was born about 1818 - he died aged 50 in 1868 and the censuses seem to confirm this - the fellow you found in Yorkshire was born 1808 thereabouts, but I think my John was over in Monmouthshire in 1851 saying he was a bookseller ( which he was - a couple of naughty court cases also confirm this!! ..along with accepted family stories)
It is a nightmare trying to find anything concrete for these families - I did find a James HOGG, weaver at Torrens Court in an early directory and at least twice a James and Jacob HOGG showing up as firemen and bricklayers living near each other - 34 & 36 Joy St was one entry....but where they got to after that is a mystery - perhaps all those folk who come up as HOGG DNA matches to me who live in the southern states of the USA could help out but none of them seem to have any idea they have HOGG ancestry - despite being linked at least 150 ways!
I emailed the Linenhall Library but was advised they don't do research as they don't have the resources and suggested I contact another place which may help for a fee...I will contact them in the next day or so...will post back if anything comes of it.
I was reading up on weavers earlier and it seems many moved away from Scotland and Ireland so maybe thats what happened to my families

I will check out those Trees on Genes Reunited as well- looks like a scorched earth approach is required!
Many thanks again for all your help. It is greatly appreciatedKind regardsJo


JimG

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Re: James HOGG, weaver of Belfast
« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2019, 08:31:53 AM »

Hi JoB,  I think you will also find many weavers who were individuals operating hand looms suffered during the economics of the famine and were being sqeezed  by factories employing a source of energy I think it was steam to operate power driven looms which were so successful that the individual craftsmen and women got swallowed up, or were undercut by the savings in mfr time .  This book might just interest you Picking up the linen threads : life in Ulster's mills by Betty Messenger  Belfast : Blackstaff, 1988, some 300 pages first pub by Austin ; London : University of Texas Press, 1978.

I am personally sad that the response from the Linenhall library yes I knew they could not undertake research BUT I was quoting the manuscript book in their Blackwood collection which I had hurriedly made in the early 1960s.  A simple surname  finding list made outside library hours, so that the collection could be used by the members and the visiting public.  The librarys great tradition was  at least showing relevant treasures to strangers. it was this that kept the library having an ethos over and above money and kept its reputation as a community treasure  Only in the last year or two have they received Museum status for some of their collections eg The lepper collection which doesn’t contain so much manuscript unique material.   All they had to do was open a volume, check in the relevant 4-6 pages if anything matched your Hogg family in Ireland if yes, quote you photocopiying at XX per page. if no tell you so so.  I have been doing this referral for about 20 years on the net, and know the staff change and reaction varies .Nevertheless I was trained in this library to find and give information from the librarys holdings and then suggest the person might become a member even if they lived overseas  just for the sake of it. many did or tell them donations were always welcomed. and then they didn’t know you were already prepared to offer them a further donation if it had been a connection.Alas Alas perhaps I didn’t make it clear to you to cite the volume numbers. etc  if i were you, i would consider trying them again sometime.

Some wills at PRONIbut you probably have them all
Hogg James of The Croft Park Road Belfast master builder died 10 June 1923 at 60 Botanic Avenue Belfast Probate Belfast 22 October to James Clement Hogg builder and contractor and Harper Crawford estate agent. Effects £12470 7s. 2d.
Letters of Administration of the personal estate of James Hogg late of Pilot-street Belfast Publican and Carter deceased who died 21 July 1875 at same place were granted at Belfast to Jane Hogg of 35 Pilot-street Belfast the Widow of said deceased.>£200
The Will of Robert Hogg late of 2 Caledonia-terrace Belfast China Merchant who died 9 August 1889 at same place was proved at Belfast by George Gordon of Market-square Alyth County Perth Scotland Merchant one of the Executors.


JoB

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Re: James HOGG, weaver of Belfast
« Reply #8 on: February 20, 2019, 12:50:04 AM »
Hi Jim
Thanks for your commiserations regarding the Linen Hall Library - I was so disappointed. I sent quite a comprehensive email, set out clearly and included your note, highlighting the volume numbers to make it easy to spot!That was very good of you to do what you did regarding the surname finding list- what a great idea and thanks for taking the time to put it together- researchers will be very grateful and so will I when I eventually visit the library.

The book you suggest sounds very interesting indeed- will look into it. 300 pages? A cinch :-)
Thanks also for the Wills- yes I have looked longingly at them but so far, cannot find a fit with my clan. The problem we are all facing is the lack of records- I have scoured so many Trees online that according to my dna tests are matches, but no one has a HOGG anywhere - eventually I realised that if they knew about their HOGG ancestry, it would be on a Tree and I would have found it years ago!!
Well, a trip to Belfast ( and Dublin) is on my bucket list, hopefully next year, so with a bit of luck, I will locate a few more clues then. I thought it quite amusing that my HOGG protestant family chose Belfast to live in and my CASTRO Roman Catholic family chose Dublin.....talk about 'pushing the envelope'!!
Many thanks again for your wonderful advice and support.
Jo