Author Topic: Searching for information about my grandma  (Read 1663 times)

Louise goffin-thorogood

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Re: Searching for information about my grandma
« Reply #15 on: February 14, 2019, 01:02:31 PM »
My birth mother was born in Richmond North Yorkshire as he was in the army I believe, Iím not sure where else they lived in the uk but she died in gorleston Norfolk, I am not entirely sure Sidney was Irish I do know that they left Ireland because he was not the same religion and her family strongly disapproved.

CMcG

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Re: Searching for information about my grandma
« Reply #16 on: February 14, 2019, 04:25:10 PM »

... but I think I can safely say they lived at 22 and not 150 ...


The reference in the 1911 Ireland census to 'house 150 in Spamount Street (Dock Ward, Antrim)' simply means that it was the 150th house enumerated in that street (in this instance by Constable Moses Nolan), which doesn't necessarily equate to street number in a great many instances.

If you click on the 'Additional Pages' of the census return posted by Bread Basket, you will see that the 150th house enumerated by Constable Nolan was indeed street number 22, here is the image:

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai001412737/

If there are any images posted above that are important to you, take your own copy - I cannot guarantee they will appear indefinitely.

Bread Basket

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Re: Searching for information about my grandma
« Reply #17 on: February 14, 2019, 06:01:38 PM »
The reference in the 1911 Ireland census to 'house 150 in Spamount Street (Dock Ward, Antrim)' simply means that it was the 150th house enumerated in that street (in this instance by Constable Moses Nolan), which doesn't necessarily equate to street number in a great many instances.

If you click on the 'Additional Pages' of the census return posted by Bread Basket, you will see that the 150th house enumerated by Constable Nolan was indeed street number 22, here is the image:

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai001412737/
CMcG, every day is a school day when you enter the arena, I have never bothered to look at the additional pages which I will do from now on.
Iím sure that you may be able to turn up other info for Louise. I spent a fair bit of time trying to find a marriage for her Grannie Wilhelmina to Sidney Patterson both in Ireland and England, no joy so far.
Great to see you back.

Louise goffin-thorogood

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Re: Searching for information about my grandma
« Reply #18 on: February 14, 2019, 07:31:24 PM »
Yes thatís very interesting.... Iím beginning to realise this is not as straightforward as I imagined but still very interesting and has made me even more determined to find someone somewhere thatís related to me. 😊 Iím guessing that the original houses on sparmount street are no longer there?

Bread Basket

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Re: Searching for information about my grandma
« Reply #19 on: February 14, 2019, 09:02:13 PM »
Yes thatís very interesting.... Iím beginning to realise this is not as straightforward as I imagined but still very interesting and has made me even more determined to find someone somewhere thatís related to me. 😊 Iím guessing that the original houses on sparmount street are no longer there?

Louise, unfortunately the part of Spamount St that you were hoping to find has been demolished and rebuilt. However only half of the street was demolished and if you view the existing original houses then it will give you a flavour of how the street looked.
Download Google Earth and just type in Spamount St Belfast and hey presto. number 22 would have been near to the junction of Spamount St and North Queen St.
Another little snippet for you, my 1st girlfriend lived in Spamount St. 😍

Same goes for Little Georgeís St, now demolished and rebuilt.  another snippet, my GG Grandfather lived in the next St which was McCleery St in the late 1890ís👍🏼😗

Once again just Google Earth the Street name.

Enjoy

Bread Basket

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Re: Searching for information about my grandma
« Reply #20 on: February 14, 2019, 09:22:43 PM »
By the way, it is highly unlikely that any of your existing OíNeill family would be living in the area of Spamount St or Little Georgeís St as those areas (which are a stones throw from each other) are predominately Nationalist / Republican / Catholic areas. Your family were Protestant and would more than likely moved from the area a long time ago.
In the Lennon &Wylie Street Directory of 1960 it just records number 22 Spamount St as Occupied

Louise goffin-thorogood

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Re: Searching for information about my grandma
« Reply #21 on: February 14, 2019, 09:32:57 PM »
Thatís a big surprise Protestant! Is that church of Ireland? Did catholic and Protestant not mix? Iím intrigued 😊

Bread Basket

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Re: Searching for information about my grandma
« Reply #22 on: February 14, 2019, 10:16:27 PM »
Thatís a big surprise Protestant! Is that church of Ireland? Did catholic and Protestant not mix? Iím intrigued 😊
Yes Louise, Church of Ireland is classed as Protestant. The area where your; and my families lived was mixed communities. Long streets eg Spamount St were common in respect that half the length of the street was one religion and the other half of the street a different religion. That is easily seen in the likes of Belfast and Derry in the ďTroublesĒ having Peace Walls / Peace Lines / Barricades which physically segregated people. I lived in such an area and grew up in the 50ís and 60ís knowing some very beautiful people from both sides of the fence   I took the same option as your Grannie and legged it 🤫🤫🤫😜.

CMcG

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Re: Searching for information about my grandma
« Reply #23 on: February 14, 2019, 11:13:40 PM »
The O'Neill-Keenan marriage was a mixed marriage - as the 1901 census indicates - and all of their children were baptised in St. Patrick's Catholic Church Belfast:

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Antrim/Dock_Ward/Little_Georges/936601/

If there are any images posted above that are important to you, take your own copy - I cannot guarantee they will appear indefinitely.

CMcG

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Re: Searching for information about my grandma
« Reply #24 on: February 15, 2019, 12:02:25 AM »
Looks like the parents of William O'Neill were James O'Neill and Matilda Connolly...

Starting with this from the Northern Whig of 19 September 1893:



The death registration for slater James O'Neill:

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1893/05996/4705861.pdf

What seals the deal is James' burial record, for in the same grave in Belfast City Cemetery is grandson William O'Neill (the young son of William O'Neill and Mary Ann Keenan who died in 1899 as per reply #12):

https://dof.belfastcity.gov.uk/burialsearch/BurialSearch.aspx?GraveSection=N2&GraveNumber=202&CemeteryName=City%20Cemetery

William O'Neill senior was born in 1870 to parents James O'Neill and Matilda Ann Connolly:

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1870/03350/2228434.pdf

James O'Neill married Matilda Ann Connolly in St. Anne's Church of Ireland on 25 August 1869, bachelor James was recorded as a 23 year old labourer from Belfast, son of James O'Neill a labourer, spinster Matilda Ann was also from Belfast, the 20 year old daughter of Robert Connolly a labourer, the marriage was witnessed by John O'Neill and Margaret Gray.

Some siblings, nephews and a maternal aunt of William here in 1901:

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Antrim/Dock_Ward/Shipboy_Street/1003924/

Here's the Coid connection in the above census return (ie. the marriage of Jane - William's sister, note her address, which nicely ties it all together):

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1894/10566/5849667.pdf

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CMcG

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Re: Searching for information about my grandma
« Reply #25 on: February 15, 2019, 12:41:52 AM »
The death of Matilda Ann (Connolly) O'Neill in 1900, note the informant's details... there's that address again:

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1900/05774/4632430.pdf

If there are any images posted above that are important to you, take your own copy - I cannot guarantee they will appear indefinitely.

CMcG

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Re: Searching for information about my grandma
« Reply #26 on: February 15, 2019, 01:07:52 AM »

... What seals the deal is James' burial record, for in the same grave in Belfast City Cemetery is grandson William O'Neill (the young son of William O'Neill and Mary Ann Keenan who died in 1899 as per reply #12):

https://dof.belfastcity.gov.uk/burialsearch/BurialSearch.aspx?GraveSection=N2&GraveNumber=202&CemeteryName=City%20Cemetery


In case you're wondering who the Morrisons were in the above burial record, this was the family in 1911 and the relevant marriage registration of 1872 and subsequent birth registrations confirm that the mother Elizabeth was an O'Neill:

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Antrim/Wood_Vale_Ward/Beverley_Street/293556/

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1872/11312/8151057.pdf

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CMcG

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Re: Searching for information about my grandma
« Reply #27 on: February 15, 2019, 02:11:53 AM »

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1914/01405/1577735.pdf


The above younger sister to Wilhelmina - Margaret born on 27 May 1914 - was baptised in St. Patrick's Belfast 2 days later and the baptismal record was subsequently annotated to say that she went on to marry John O'Kane in St. Patrick's on 18 May 1935, GRONI online has the marriage indexed under 'John McKane'.

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CMcG

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Re: Searching for information about my grandma
« Reply #28 on: February 15, 2019, 03:26:09 AM »

... Some siblings, nephews and a maternal aunt of William here in 1901:

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Antrim/Dock_Ward/Shipboy_Street/1003924/


In the burial record below for William O'Neill who died in 1937 with a reported age of 67, the last residence was given as 22 Spamount Street, his death notice in a local paper described him as 'beloved husband of Mary A. O'Neill':

https://dof.belfastcity.gov.uk/burialsearch/BurialSearch.aspx?GraveSection=M1&GraveNumber=277&CemeteryName=City%20Cemetery%20-%20Glenalina%20Extension

The Matilda Duncan in the same grave is, I think, William's sister as shown in the previously posted census return for house 31 in Shipboy Street (reproduced above).  Her 1946 burial record last residence of 13 Shipboy Street reads across in the 1943 Belfast street directory as follows: 13. McCleery, James, carter ( source: https://www.lennonwylie.co.uk/scomplete1943.htm ). James McCleery married William and Matilda's sister Elizabeth O'Neill in 1906, here are the O'Neill siblings James, Matilda and Elizabeth in 1911:

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Antrim/Dock_Ward__Belfast_Clifton_/Little_Corporation_Street/131402/

GRONI online shows that there was a marriage registered in Belfast of a Matilda O'Neill to Henry Duncan, it took place on 19 December 1926.

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CMcG

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Re: Searching for information about my grandma
« Reply #29 on: February 15, 2019, 03:31:01 AM »
It's proving more difficult to tie down the Keenan background, for the moment, note this possibility, a Mary Ann Keenan born in Belfast to parents John Keenan and Mary Ann Murphy in November 1873 (and baptised a few weeks later in St. Patrick's):

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1873/03176/2164887.pdf

John Keenan and Mary Ann Murphy were married in St. Patrick's:

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1873/11276/8136263.pdf

At this point, there is nothing more conclusive to say this is the correct person, so as I said, just to note until it can be ruled in or out.

Also in the realm of speculation, there was a marriage in St. Patrick's on 21 January 1928 of a James O'Neill to Jane Cushanan, the church record gives his address as 1 Recart Terrace, Shore Road and cites his parents as William O'Neill and Mary Ann Keenan, Jane was from 2 California Street and her parents were cited as John Cushanan and Rose McGoldrick.  The witnesses were William O'Neill of 1 Recart Terrace and Mary Frances Fleming of 7 California Street. 

I'm thinking this just might be Wilhelmina's older brother James, there again, it might just be a co-incidence of names. 

If there are any images posted above that are important to you, take your own copy - I cannot guarantee they will appear indefinitely.