Author Topic: Mateer/Armstrong family  (Read 607 times)

mateer1987

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Mateer/Armstrong family
« on: March 23, 2019, 07:35:34 PM »
Hi all - looking to research my irish side but have hit a brick wall before even started. have my dads birth certificate - David Dodds Mateer, born 25 september 1948 to Mary Armstrong and David Mateer in belfast. Has 5 siblings - Vivianne, Sally, Edward, Issac and Frank. Bith grandparent and dad died in Brighton. any help would be appreciated!! have tried groni but i always get the same result - 0 results lol

Elwyn

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Re: Mateer/Armstrong family
« Reply #1 on: March 23, 2019, 10:46:23 PM »
     Births within the past 100 years arenít on-line on the GRONI website. If you want them you either have to go to GRONI or PRONI in person (where they have special terminals for those searches) or you can contact GRONI up and get them to search for you. There may be a fee. Contact details for ringing or e-mailing GRONI:
https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/contacts/contacts-az/general-register-office-northern-ireland

Marriages over 75 years old are on the GRONI site. So you can view David Mateerís marriage to Mary Armstrong. It was in Belfast on 21.3.1942.
 
Elwyn

JimG

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Re: Mateer/Armstrong family
« Reply #2 on: March 24, 2019, 07:23:31 PM »

I think your family in Brighton looks like
David [Dodds] Mateer b1917  m aged 25, OR more likely b1923  m aged 19,  died 1991 Brighton m 21.3.1942 Belfast  Mary Armstrong
children notes on just 2 of your list
David Dodds Mateer, b 1948 Belfast d 2000 Brighton m Sylvia E Lough 1971 see freeBMDS
Issac Mateer if he m 1977 Brighton spouse is named see freeBMDS

a David mateer was b i1917 Belfast co antrim father was William from ancestryireland

you are lucky to have been given that marriage date,  once you have the detailed marriage version it then depends what information you receive his fathers name and Marys father will help you enormously.   eg I picked up a D Mateer living in Melrose St in 1951 and my results only stopped when I found his burial record and he was married to the wrong person etc.,,,,My sources were www.lennonwtlie.com and you will be able to look through mary lennons amazing wenbsite  of street directories
a Mrs Agnes C Mateer in 1918 was living in 7 Melrose Street
a Mrs Agnes C Mateer in 1924 was living in 7 Melrose Street
 a Mrs Agnes C Mateer in 1939 was living in 7 Melrose Street
a Mrs Agnes Mateer in 1943 was living in 7 Melrose Street
a D Mateer in 1951 was living in 7 Melrose Street
from 205 Lisburn Road to Northbrook Street
7. Mateer, D. [size=78%], no occupation given, in 1960 No 7  changes to Miss E Mateer[/size]
 from https://dof.belfastcity.gov.uk/burialsearch/
the death and burial of David Mateer of 7 Melrose street aged 89 took place 17 Nov 1957
the same plot contains the earlier Mrs Agnes Carlisle Mateer d 30 May 1947 aged 76

so if you can find the family in 1911 census you should be have to go much further back in time. using census then church records etc
do keep reply one you have three you can use the PM private message and mat induce more relatives to join in
good luck

mateer1987

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Re: Mateer/Armstrong family
« Reply #3 on: March 24, 2019, 11:38:53 PM »
my grandfather (David Dodds Mateer) was born 1923 - died in brighton in 1991

had 6 kids: David (my dad), Issac, Frank, Edward, Vivienne and Sally.

my dad (David) also died in Brighton 13 July 2000

he was divorced from sylvia, married my mum in 1987

JimG

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Re: Mateer/Armstrong family
« Reply #4 on: March 25, 2019, 08:14:29 AM »
until you find your great grandparents names you will not be able to  go further back with your family history
good luck onwards

CMcG

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Re: Mateer/Armstrong family
« Reply #5 on: March 25, 2019, 10:53:00 AM »
Here's one possibility to note. You say that your grandfather David Dodds Mateer was born in 1923.  In looking at Mateer marriages in the years running up to 1923, I happened upon this one, it's for a Francis Mateer and Sarah Crothers who got married in St. John's Church of Ireland Belfast on Christmas Day 1920, the 2 fathers given as Edward Mateer and John Crothers:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1920/09276/5358323.pdf

What's interesting about it, is that Sarah Crothers mother, as shown in Sarah's birth registration in 1900, was Elizabeth Dodds:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1900/01989/1765654.pdf

John Crothers and Elizabeth Dodds married in 1899:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1899/10387/5782170.pdf

Here was the family in 1901 and 1911:
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Antrim/Lisburn/Fort_Street/1001001/
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Antrim/Shankill/James_Street/151823/

The naming convention to incorporate 'Dodds' as a forename was present with Sarah's brother Thomas (shown in the above 1911 census return), whose name was recorded as Thomas John Dodds Crothers in his 1904 birth registration:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1904/01820/1712148.pdf

Francis Mateer was born on 20 August 1899 to parents Edward Mateer and Catherine Mulholland, here is the family in 1901 and 1911:
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Antrim/Court_Ward/Downing_Street/964342/
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Antrim/Court_Ward/Matlock_Street/149711/

Edward Mateer and Catherine Gillespie nee Mulholland married in 1898:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1898/10432/5798468.pdf

What surprised me is that the name combination of Francis Mateer, even allowing for variants, is quite rare (according to the 1901 and 1911 censuses). If the stated name of David's father in the 1942 marriage record should turn out to be Francis Mateer, that rarity, allied to the Dodds angle I've covered above, would be a strong indication that the parents of David Dodds Mateer were Francis Mateer and Sarah Crothers. In the absence of finding online a c.1923 birth/baptism record for David, viewing the 1942 marriage record may help.


CMcG

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Re: Mateer/Armstrong family
« Reply #6 on: March 25, 2019, 11:43:38 AM »
Note that there was a D.D. Mateer reg. no. 7021566 serving as a rifleman in the Royal Ulster Rifles (1st Battalion London Irish Rifles) who appeared as injured on 19 January 1944 in a British Army casualty list. That would appear to tie up with this from the Belfast Telegraph of 10 February 1944, note the address:



From the Lennon Wylie website, the following street directory entries for James Street:

1939: 24. Matier, F.
1943: 24. Matier, F., soldier
1951: 24. Mateer, F., cleaner
 
And 24 James Street was the last residence stated for Edward Mateer in his burial record of 1939:
https://dof.belfastcity.gov.uk/burialsearch/BurialRecordDetails.aspx?RecordID=6643.12003
Edward's wife Catherine (Mulholland Gillespie) Mateer predeceased him and is in the same grave, her last residence matches the address for the Mateers in the 1901 census return I previously posted:
https://dof.belfastcity.gov.uk/burialsearch/BurialRecordDetails.aspx?RecordID=6423.20745

So looking promising.


CMcG

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Re: Mateer/Armstrong family
« Reply #7 on: March 25, 2019, 12:19:10 PM »
Bingo! From the Belfast Telegraph of 8 July 1955:

MATEER - July 7, 1955, at his residence, 24 James' Street, Francis, dearly loved husband of Sarah Mateer.  Funeral to-morrow (Saturday) at 10 a.m. to Carnmoney Cemetery. Deeply regretted by his sorrowing wife ... Deeply regretted by his sorrowing Son and Daughter-in-law, David and Mary Mateer; also Grandchildren, 84 Brussels Street ... Deeply regretted by his Son Edward and Daughter-in-law Margaret, 41 Upper Frank Street ... Deeply regretted by his sorrowing Daughter and Son-in-law, Catherine and Hugh Long, 42 Constance St ... dearly loved father of Martha McCulloch - Deeply regretted by his sorrowing Daughter and Grandson Frankie and Friend, Thomas McWatters ... Deeply regretted by his Brother-in-law, Wife and Family, 68 Silverstream Avenue ... Deeply regretted by his sorrowing Nephew, Rifleman F. Crothers, Royal Ulster Rifles, B.A.O.R. ... The Officers and Members of the Belfast Corporation Transport Ex-Servicemen's Association regret the death of their esteemed Member, Chum Frank Mateer


CMcG

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Re: Mateer/Armstrong family
« Reply #8 on: March 25, 2019, 01:24:46 PM »
Looks like the family lived in Spencer Street in the 1960s...

Following on from the previously posted death notices, this from the Belfast Telegraph of 4 May 1961 (just a short extract, I haven't included all the names in the notices):
McWATTERS - May 3, 1961, at Hospital, MARTHA, dearly loved wife of Thomas McWatters, 24 James Street ... beloved daughter of Sarah and the late Francis Mateer ... Deeply regretted by her sorrowing Brother and Sister-in-law, David and Mary Mateer and Family, 39 Spencer Street ...

Then this from the Belfast Telegraph of 1 February 1966:
A six year old girl was knocked down by a coal lorry in Cambridge Street, Belfast, today.  She is Vivien Mateer of Spencer Street, Belfast.  She was removed to the Royal Victoria Hospital with a foot injury, but was later released.


mateer1987

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Re: Mateer/Armstrong family
« Reply #9 on: March 26, 2019, 02:06:31 PM »
Wouldnt by anychance have the links to newspaper articles that have been found? I have found that my grandmothers father is David John Armstrong from marriage certificate.

CMcG

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Re: Mateer/Armstrong family
« Reply #10 on: March 26, 2019, 03:55:39 PM »

Wouldnt by anychance have the links to newspaper articles that have been found? I have found that my grandmothers father is David John Armstrong from marriage certificate.


I'll post the articles here a.s.a.p.  Did the 1942 marriage certificate confirm David Mateer's father's name as Francis? (I'll be amazed if not.)  Was there any other information recorded that would help us, eg. what were the addresses and occupations, was Mary's age stated, what were the witness names?


mateer1987

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Re: Mateer/Armstrong family
« Reply #11 on: March 26, 2019, 06:13:25 PM »
I'll post the articles here a.s.a.p.  Did the 1942 marriage certificate confirm David Mateer's father's name as Francis? (I'll be amazed if not.)  Was there any other information recorded that would help us, eg. what were the addresses and occupations, was Mary's age stated, what were the witness names?

yes francis mateer is indeed davidís father
i cant read the certificate very well lol. for what i can make out david was in the armed forces of some kind because occupations shows - IMR.V.R and residence is what looks like UMUS something service

Francis occupation - RASC and he is also oke of the witnesses on the certificate

the other witness is martha mcculloch

Mary Armstrong - father: david john armstrong - labourer. if ive read certificate correctly it also says that is deceased.

address 31 [censored]**mount street Belfast. again cant make out what it says lol.

marriage took place at st michaels church

CMcG

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Re: Mateer/Armstrong family
« Reply #12 on: March 26, 2019, 08:22:11 PM »
Could David's occupation of 'IMR.V.R' be something like 'In RUR' (ie. in the Royal Ulster Rifles)? The Martha McCulloch witness matches the daughter in the 1955 death notice, presumably she married Thomas McWatters, hence the 1961 death notice.  'RASC' could be Royal Army Service Corps.  Anyway, here are the 1955 death notices:



mateer1987

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Re: Mateer/Armstrong family
« Reply #13 on: March 26, 2019, 08:24:30 PM »
Could David's occupation of 'IMR.V.R' be something like 'In RUR' (ie. in the Royal Ulster Rifles)? The Martha McCulloch witness matches the daughter in the 1955 death notice, presumably she married Thomas McWatters, hence the 1961 death notice.  'RASC' could be Royal Army Service Corps.  Anyway, here are the 1955 death notices:


thank you for your help, its greatly appreciated!!

CMcG

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Re: Mateer/Armstrong family
« Reply #14 on: March 26, 2019, 08:39:33 PM »
McWatters notices, 4 May 1961: