Author Topic: Mary Jane Allen nee McCullan  (Read 1563 times)

CMcG

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Re: Mary Jane Allen nee McCullan
« Reply #15 on: April 21, 2019, 03:09:23 AM »

... What's interesting is that the death took place at 13 Tivoli Terrace North, kingstown (Dún Laoghaire today), that is the exact same address that Elizabeth Allen gave 7 months later, when she married John James Turkington ...


The Will of Joseph McCullen late of 13 Tivoli-terrace Kingstown County Dublin Retired Naval Officer who died 18 December 1892 at same place was proved at the Principal Registry by Elizabeth Allen of 13 Tivoli-terrace Spinster the sole Executrix.

http://www.willcalendars.nationalarchives.ie/reels/cwa/005014907/005014907_00308.pdf


CMcG

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Re: Mary Jane Allen nee McCullan
« Reply #16 on: April 21, 2019, 08:52:15 AM »
1932:






CMcG

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Re: Mary Jane Allen nee McCullan
« Reply #17 on: April 21, 2019, 09:02:41 AM »
1950:






Seasons

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Re: Mary Jane Allen nee McCullan
« Reply #18 on: April 21, 2019, 11:38:06 PM »
GMcG..

What can I say here! apart from the fact that you have unlocked FH that we knew was always floating in the atmosphere but was unspoken - Dad knew very little about his adopted family and now i can understand why, as can he! FH I am finding, can bring out the ups and downs of family life - and how the downs can affect the next Generation and not always for the better.

The information i hold on Mary Jane McCullen/Allen was upsetting to read however, on reading further from your postings I'm utterly shocked that she died after her last baby was born, George Hercules, she no doubt would have been told by her GP not to have any more babies because it clearly looks with each pregnancy she just didn't have a chance for recovery!  I just cannot get my head around it all. When a Mother goes down especially in those days the family are left devasted and scattered.. There wasn't a happy ending for this young women who came from Kingston with none of her own family around for support when she needed it the most!

This was the part of the search i was personally most interested in, mainly because she faced such emotional and physical hardship within a short space of time after marriage, plus her young daughter had to watch it all unfold - we now understand more about our Grandmother and why she wanted it locked away! At least I do.

As for John Allen - it's best i hold my tongue!

[size=0px]All pure speculation of course, but it would resolve the missing 1895 child and missing birth registration for George Hercules in one go.[/size][size=0px]

No not at all! you've clearly hit the nail on the head with all the above information.

I have shared all this information with Dad - he told me to thank you for doing this, it really does mean a lot to him, every little piece of information matters and i'm hoping it will eventually lead us to the information we're looking for! before too long.

The area that i have been searching for is without the most difficult as sometime your going down blind ally after blind ally but sometime you just hit on someone who will go that extra mile for you to unlock that box that needs opening - far too much fear around telling the truth at times but yet it's the truth that brings about a freedom..

I appreciate the photos and the Obituries - I plan to visit the Graves this week in Moneymore and Belfast.

I live a few miles from Portrush so I'll do a search with Records in the local Church and Graveyard just to see if i can find out anything further about the Allen Family but I sense the research for this side of the family is now completed. 

Many Many Thanks
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CMcG

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Re: Mary Jane Allen nee McCullan
« Reply #19 on: April 22, 2019, 01:58:02 AM »
There are things that one will never know for sure, for example, I like to imagine that Elizabeth Allen was close to Mary Jane McCullen, and I'm intrigued that her father Joseph chose her to be executor.  BTW, a family tree on the Ancestry website has tracked the McCullen's back to Co Antrim, although there is no mention of Mary Jane, hence no mention of the Allens at all. But yes, it's been an interesting line, what with the interactions between Dublin, Belfast and Co Londonderry.


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Re: Mary Jane Allen nee McCullan
« Reply #20 on: April 25, 2019, 06:45:54 PM »
CMcG.

Could i ask for some help with finding Margaret Annie Allen Birth - she is the little girl in the same grave Mary Jane Allen/McCullen and the Loney's, I have found her Death Certificate but not her Birth - I'm trying to find out who her mother was.

I was in GRONI Search Room today  along with assitance from 2 researchers  - they couldn't find it either.

She was only 2yr and 7 months old according to her Burial Records and 2Years old on her Death Certificate.

Margaret died on the 1/5/1926

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CMcG

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Re: Mary Jane Allen nee McCullan
« Reply #21 on: April 26, 2019, 01:41:30 AM »
I can't see a baptism or a death notice, but in the late 1920s, there are several in memoriam notices in the Belfast Telegraph like the following one:



Despite the date being out by a day, I think this might be the same child, while detail on parents is lacking, other notices refer to wee Joe, so maybe her sibling, note also that spelling of her first name (for searching in PRONI/GRONI, I would try forename begins with 'marg' or 'mag' - or even 'ann' - and surname begins with 'all', I would also leave registration district open).


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Re: Mary Jane Allen nee McCullan
« Reply #22 on: April 26, 2019, 09:58:58 AM »
Many Thanks! I will try this next time i'm in PRONI/GRONI.

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Re: Mary Jane Allen nee McCullan
« Reply #23 on: May 01, 2019, 04:31:49 PM »
CmCG

I was able to contact the Administrator on Ancestry UK that oversees McCullen Family Tree, we have started communicating which is great as he's filling in the blanks for me and vice a versa for him! however, there's a search which he has followed up on which is confusing to us both and i was wondering if i posted the information would you help to try and bring some sense to it if at all possible?

Sorry i'm referring to 'him as him' but i dont want to use his full name in the open forum.

Kind Regards

SEASONS

CMcG

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Re: Mary Jane Allen nee McCullan
« Reply #24 on: May 01, 2019, 04:48:55 PM »

CmCG

I was able to contact the Administrator on Ancestry UK that oversees McCullen Family Tree, we have started communicating which is great as he's filling in the blanks for me and vice a versa for him! however, there's a search which he has followed up on which is confusing to us both and i was wondering if i posted the information would you help to try and bring some sense to it if at all possible?

Sorry i'm referring to 'him as him' but i dont want to use his full name in the open forum.

Kind Regards

SEASONS


Fire away, the worst that can happen is that I don't know... but then again, someone else reading might know.


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Re: Mary Jane Allen nee McCullan
« Reply #25 on: May 01, 2019, 05:38:00 PM »


Just cannot get away from my suspicions regarding John & Elizabeth Allen and father Robert.

I sent a couple of images from Ancestry for John and Elizabeth Allen (attached again) showing a mother Anne McCullen. There was an Anne McCullen born in 1829 who was Joseph’s sister. Joseph McCullen was Mary Jane McCullen/Allen's Father.

Checking the birth county, Elizabeth shows Magherafelt in Co Derry, and John shows Portrush in Co Antrim. Those same counties appear on census returns:

John Allen 1901 and Elizabeth Allen 1901. (Also, John Allen’s 1911 census in Newcastle shows place of birth as Portrush!) As far as ages are concerned, John’s seems to fit, but Elizabeth’s doesn’t. But Elizabeth’s age never seems to fit. Between 1901 and 1911 census, she has lost 6 years! If the birth record IS the correct one, she was born in 1865, the census of 1901 shows her as born in 1870, the 1911 census has her born in 1876. But in each of the marriages, her husbands were rather older, William Rutherford was 65 and John Turkington 57. If Elizabeth’s actual date of birth was 1865, the age gap is considerably less. And I’ve just looked at the 1950 obituary for Elizabeth Rutherford. She is recorded as being 85 years old, i.e. born in 1865 the same as on the birth record showing her mother as Anne Jane McCullen.

Of course I am lacking a lot of information, particularly regarding John and Elizabeth’s parentage (other than Robert the stationmaster). If you already have that information, please put me out of my misery! However, if my theory is correct, John Allen married Mary Jane McCullen who was his cousin. That would make Elizabeth related to George Hercules Allen, not just by marriage, which would certainly make the desire to look after him that much stronger.

Would it be possbile that Mary Jane McCullen was a full cousin to John Allen?

v

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CMcG

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Re: Mary Jane Allen nee McCullan
« Reply #26 on: May 02, 2019, 10:06:32 AM »
It is a possibility, the problem will be whether the records are available to enable that determination to be made.

As far as the parentage issue goes, I had assumed Robert Allen and Ann Jane McCullen were indeed the parents, as there are civil records which are a reasonable 'fit' for the 3 youngest Children...

Elizabeth b. 1865:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1865/03577/2318516.pdf

John Allen b. 1867:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1867/03489/2282341.pdf

James b. 1868:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1869/03413/2251622.pdf

James b. 1868 is the sibling I posted at reply #2, the one who married Catherine Smith in 1897 (Annie Jane Loney was a witness). James was recorded as a clerk in that marriage registration, here he was in 1901:
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Antrim/Saint_Anne_s_Ward_Belfast/Pisa_Street/953714/

James died on 10 May 1905:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1905/05596/4573075.pdf

James' death notice made mention of him being the 'third son of the late Robert Allen, Collon, Drogheda':



The 'irishgenealogy' website has a marriage registered at Ardee in 1856 for a Robert Allen and Anne Jane McCullin, the image has yet to be digitised online, but the 'familysearch' website has transcribed it as having taken place at Collon, Ardee on 28 March that year, the two fathers given as John Allen and James McCullen.

This looks like a possible candidate for the death of Robert Allen:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1899/05797/4640153.pdf


CMcG

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Re: Mary Jane Allen nee McCullan
« Reply #27 on: May 02, 2019, 10:55:02 AM »

... This looks like a possible candidate for the death of Robert Allen:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1899/05797/4640153.pdf


Will Calendars entry for the above death here:
http://www.willcalendars.nationalarchives.ie/reels/cwa/005014911/005014911_00011.pdf

Given that the informant for the above death was daughter Susan Allen, I wondered about the following folk in 1901 and 1911, I mean, what is the chance of a son and daughter in Collon Co. Louth having birthplaces as Portrush / Antrim?

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Louth/Collon/Collon/1565207/

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Louth/Collon/Collon/648954/

But who was Elizabeth (ie. where was Ann Jane?)?  Then I noticed the death of a 36 year old Ann Jane Allen at Portrush on 18 March 1869:



And the following marriage in 1870 (note the groom's father is John Allen, as in the 1856 McCullen marriage):
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1870/11367/8173260.pdf

And the following births...

Henry:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1871/03314/2214643.pdf

Benjamin:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1873/03214/2178559.pdf

Unknown Female (I wondered if Susan):
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1876/03048/2117722.pdf


CMcG

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Re: Mary Jane Allen nee McCullan
« Reply #28 on: May 02, 2019, 11:11:37 AM »
The following is an interesting grave record, bits of it fit and others don't (cross-checking against deaths on the 'irishgenealogy' website), but I suspect the latter may be mistranscriptions (the headstone is difficult to make out):

https://www.gravestonephotos.com/public/gravedetails.php?grave=605273

On that website, you can request a bigger / higher quality version of the headstone and they say that they will email it to you:

https://www.gravestonephotos.com/public/requestimage.php

Going to pause now to let you read.


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Re: Mary Jane Allen nee McCullan
« Reply #29 on: May 02, 2019, 12:25:10 PM »
CMcG.. Your post at 10.06am this morning.

I totally agree about finding the paperwork about John Allen and Mary Jane were Cousins will be the only way to confirm this! I've been searching most of yesterday and again this morning but unable to find anything - i need to set this down for a few days and come back to it.

Thanks for confirmation on Elizabeth, John and James's Birth dates.

I found James' Burial Grave in Belfast City Cemetery - his wife ( Catherine) was buried in the same grave along with her 2nd Husband Martin Landerson, she remarried 25th Nov 1920. Grave MI 483.

It's also great to get confimation that Robert Allen was also a "Station Master" at Maghera Railway station around 13th May 1865 when his daughter Elizabeth was born there.

Robert Allen's Son John Allen was also Station Master at Maghera when both his Sons Robert Joseph and John Francis was born there in 1892 and 1893. Thank you for confirming this!

Your findings Re: Collon Co. Louth is a new angle now! but that's Geneology for you..

I will read your other 2 posts later this evening when I'm back home, it's certainly a massive amount to get your head around,

I'll refer Mr. McCullen to your latest posts - he will be delighted with this level of research and information.

Again! Many Thanks

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