Author Topic: Mary Jane Allen nee McCullan  (Read 2112 times)

Seasons

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Re: Mary Jane Allen nee McCullan
« Reply #30 on: May 02, 2019, 12:42:09 PM »
CMcG.

I'll add Robert Allen's Will to my list when I visit PRONI next week.

Thanks

Seasons.

CMcG

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Re: Mary Jane Allen nee McCullan
« Reply #31 on: May 02, 2019, 01:27:17 PM »
I'm getting a sense that proving your theory conclusively might not be possible, but here's my take on it.

Ann Jane McCullen married Robert Allen at Collon in 1856, her father was recorded as James McCullen.  It would be nice to see the marriage registration to confirm her address and her father's occupation, you could wait for it to appear on the 'irishgenealogy' website or order it from the GRO at Roscommon.  There again, there's no guarantee that it would provide any more helpful detail.  Anyhow, in the absence of same, I took a look at Griffith's Valuation for that vicinity, which has a local print date of 1854.  The thing that stands out is that there are only 2 James McCullens listed, of which one is living in a house attached to the coastguard station at Dunany (Point).  This is the same James McCullen that the Ancestry tree owner shows having a number of children with a 'Sarah', then having a number of further children with an 'Ellen'.  The children that James McCullen had with Sarah included Ann McCullen in 1829, as you mentioned.

So to be clear, the 1856 marriage of Robert Allen to Ann Jane McCullen places her geographically within, say, 12 miles of the James McCullen at Dunany in the 1854 Griffith's survey. 

Now here's the thing. The Ancestry tree owner identified one of the children of James and Ellen McCullen as 'James Jocelyn McCullen' (1839 - 1904), a quite singular name.

There is a baptism in Ballywillin parish Co Antrim in March 1869 for parents recorded as Robert and Anne Jane Allen, the address is Portrush and Robert is described as a Railway Station Master.  While the date of birth cited in the baptismal record doesn't exactly match the 1868 birth registration for James Allen that I posted above at reply #26 (it's just over a month out), I'm pretty certain that it's him nonetheless, given the other detail that I've mentioned.  And here's the interesting part... he was baptised James Jocelyn Allen. 

So not quite a smoking gun, but it lends added weight to the idea that John Allen's mother Ann Jane McCullen was  Joseph McCullen's brother and that as a consequence, the Mary Jane McCullen that John Allen married in 1889 was his cousin. That might be as much 'proof' as you will find on this.


CMcG

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Re: Mary Jane Allen nee McCullan
« Reply #32 on: May 02, 2019, 05:20:30 PM »

... I'll add Robert Allen's Will to my list when I visit PRONI next week.


I think that it won't say anything helpful, if I'm right you can read it online:  
Administration (with the Will) of the personal estate of Robert Allen late of Collon County Louth Farmer who died 17 June 1899 granted at Armagh to Elizabeth Allen of Collon Widow the Universal Legatee for life.

https://apps.proni.gov.uk/WillsCalendar_IE/WillsSearch.aspx


Seasons

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Re: Mary Jane Allen nee McCullan
« Reply #33 on: May 02, 2019, 06:38:19 PM »

I think that it won't say anything helpful, if I'm right you can read it online: 
Administration (with the Will) of the personal estate of Robert Allen late of Collon County Louth Farmer who died 17 June 1899 granted at Armagh to Elizabeth Allen of Collon Widow the Universal Legatee for life.

I found it thankfully - sometimes it's difficult to find as you don't always have the Grants Date, looks like he had a few farms which were left to his wife. It's always great to see a WILL written in the deceased own handwriting.

Seasons


Seasons

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Re: Mary Jane Allen nee McCullan
« Reply #34 on: May 02, 2019, 08:13:50 PM »

I'm getting a sense that proving your theory conclusively might not be possible, but here's my take on it.

Ann Jane McCullen married Robert Allen at Collon in 1856, her father was recorded as James McCullen.  It would be nice to see the marriage registration to confirm her address and her father's occupation, you could wait for it to appear on the 'irishgenealogy' website or order it from the GRO at Roscommon. 

I will order it from GRO at Roscommon as i would like it confirmed, if at all possible.

I was at the Ballywillin Cemetery this afternoon - they have 2 cemeteries, one which is the most recent however, i had to go into the old one which dates back to mid 1800's not the greatest place to go on your own, some graves are very badly sunken! anyways, I found Ann Jane's Plot - really appreciate your find with Ann's death - would you believe i met a lady in the Graveyard her name was Ann Allen visiting her husband Robert's Grave - what are the chances!! No! she wasn't related to the Allen's I'm researching.

I've also been able to make a appointment with the Church to view Records for the Allen Family. Baptisms and Deaths. I will check out the Baptism for James Joclyn Allen

I am more or less finished with this research CMcG as it's taken me away from my main focus, i cannot thank you enough for all this detailed research, it is so very much appreciated, it has certainly helped to answer a lot of unanswered questions concerning my Adotped Grandmothers family.

Many Thanks

Seasons

CMcG

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Re: Mary Jane Allen nee McCullan
« Reply #35 on: May 03, 2019, 08:30:01 AM »
No problem, at least it would all resolve the comment I made earlier at reply #19: 'I like to imagine that Elizabeth Allen was close to Mary Jane McCullen, and I'm intrigued that her father Joseph chose her to be executor.' 

I was struggling to understand why Joseph McCullen would have chosen his daughter Mary Jane McCullen's sister-in law Elizabeth Allen to be his executor (and why Elizabeth Allen was living in Dún Laoghaire when Joseph McCullen died), but it makes so much more sense when one knows that Elizabeth Allen was also his niece (and like her brother John Allen therefore, a cousin to Mary Jane McCullen as well).  Hopefully the 1856 Robert Allen - Ann Jane McCullen marriage record will include some sort of reference to close things off, for example, a naval / coastguard related reference for the occupation of James McCullen would be very nice.


Splad

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Re: Mary Jane Allen nee McCullan
« Reply #36 on: May 04, 2019, 11:55:14 AM »
Many thanks CMcG and Seasons for all your painstaking research into the McCullen/Allen FH.[/font]
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Joseph McCullen was my Great Great Grandfather, and I first became aware of him when I discovered in my late grandfather’s effects, an old photograph of what looked like a bunch of pirates on the deck of a wooden ship. There was also a long service medal issued by the Irish Coastguard Service (confusingly inscribed William McCullen). My father assumed wrongly that the captain in the photograph was William, a Coastguard. This stalled my first attempts to find out anything about the man. There was also in the box of photos, an ‘In Memoriam’ card relating to a George McCullen, drowned in 1878 off Tuskar. I researched the death of George and discovered that the coastguard boat (‘the Fanny’) he was on (as was his brother) was rammed and sunk by a steamer. I was directed to the Irish Coastguards website where I received much helpful information and I eventually visited Kew Archives and found Joseph, and his original signing up papers. I later discovered several newspaper reports about the sinking of ‘The Fanny’, and also reports of Joseph’s promotions etc. the two Coastguards,  George and Robert McCullen who were drowned, were Joseph’s sons. William, also a coastguard was also Joseph’s son, and my Great Grandfather. He was moved to Tollesbury in Essex and then to Gravesend in Kent where he retired. There was another son, Joseph Nelson, who moved to Portsmouth. But with all my research on and off over several years, I never found out that Joseph had a daughter, Mary Jane McCullen/Allen![/font]
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Thanks to all your work, I have a whole new raft of information which certainly clears up something that had been bugging me – who on earth was Elizabeth Allen, and why was Joseph living with her and why did he make her his sole executrix? Now we know. Not only was Joseph Elizabeth Allen’s brother John’s father-in-law, but Joseph was her uncle by virtue of her mother Anne Jane McCullen being Joseph’s sister. And of course, as she and Mary Jane McCullen/Allen were cousins, it explains why she reared Mary Jane’s last child, George Hurcules, when John Allen the father seems to have relinquished responsibility for him.[/font]
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Whilst the proof that Joseph’s sister Anne was the mother of Elizabeth and John Allen is compelling, the evidence is circumstantial, although I believe it to be true. The last piece of information that James Allen (John and Elizabeth’s younger brother) was baptized James JocelynAllen is to my mind conclusive evidence of the interrelationships. James Jocelyn McCullen was Joseph and Anne McCullen’s half brother, the first child born to James and his new wife Ellen. In the 1941 English census, the family has moved temporarily to Fleet (the location reputedly for the novel “Moonfleet”). The census shows James and Ellen, with daughters Anne, Sarah and Catherine and son Joseph (children of James’ first wife Sarah who died in 1836), and new son of 16 months, James (Jocelyn). James Jocelyn McCullen never married and became, like his brother Joseph, a high ranking officer in the Coastguard Service. He had erected a monument in Ballyphillip churchyard in Portaferry dedicated to his mother Ellen, his father James and his siblings (but not his half-siblings). Soon after James Allen was born (December 1868), his mother Anne Jane died in March 1869. That same month James was baptized James Jocelyn. Was this an afterthought and in remembrance of the death of Anne Jane, I wonder?[/font]
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That branch of the McCullen FH is now as complete as it can be (I think!), but there is one thing that has been bugging me for some time. Who was Joseph’s wife, and mother to Mary Jane McCullen? My favoured candidate is Mary Batterham. Although English, the family was in Ireland, certainly in 1845 when her brother William was born in Skibereen. The record I have is only a reference but shows a Joseph McCullen (father James) marrying Anne Batterham in Castlehaven near Skibereen in 1850. There is also a census record dated 1891showing Joseph Nelson McCullen (Joseph junior) staying with his Aunt and Uncle James and Mary Farmer in Portsea. Mary’s maiden name was Batterham, Anne Batterham’s sister. I have no actual documents for Joseph’s marriage to Anne Batterham, but if you have time, it would be really good if you could have a look for me, or let me know if I can obtain them.[/font]
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Thank you again.[/font]
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Splad[/b][/font]
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CMcG

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Re: Mary Jane Allen nee McCullan
« Reply #37 on: May 04, 2019, 01:20:14 PM »
The only thing I notice at first glance, is that while the 'familysearch' website cites the groom's father as James McCullen for that marriage of Anne Batterham to Joseph McCullen at Castlehaven on 10 January 1850 (which is promising), the bride's father is cited as Joseph Batterham, not William as per the Ancestry tree.

William Batterham was however cited as the father's name in a marriage on 17 February of the previous year at nearby Castletownshend for George Batterham, who was marrying Martha Austin (father John Austin).
 
Anyhow, should you wish to see the detail on the marriage registration, you should follow option 1a. in the following link, which will take you to the Irish Government's website, option 1a. will cost 4 euros and is all you need (ie. you don't need an actual certificate) and using the downloadable form, the transaction can be done electronically / by email:   

https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/en/civil-records/help/i-want-to-get-a-copy-of-a-certificate-what-do-i-do

The marriage you are after (Joseph McCullen - Anne Batterham) was registered Skibbereen, 1850, Quarter 1, Volume 10, Page 112.

l will have another look myself later to see if I can turn anything up.


CMcG

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Re: Mary Jane Allen nee McCullan
« Reply #38 on: May 04, 2019, 04:50:35 PM »

... Soon after James Allen was born (December 1868), his mother Anne Jane died in March 1869. That same month James was baptized James Jocelyn. Was this an afterthought and in remembrance of the death of Anne Jane, I wonder?


Just dipping in for a moment to say that I think you've nailed it with the above comment, excellent stuff.

I said in a previous post (Reply #27) that Ann Jane Allen died on 18 March 1869 (based on the newspaper death notice I posted), but looking at it again and cross-checking for her death on the GRONI website confirms that she died on 16 March 1869. 

The baptism of James Jocelyn Allen in Ballywillin parish Co Antrim for parents Robert (Railway Station Master) and Anne Jane Allen of Portrush took place just 2 days later on 18 March. And I have just noticed an annotation to the baptismal record to say that he was 'privately baptised'.


Splad

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Re: Mary Jane Allen nee McCullan
« Reply #39 on: May 04, 2019, 05:11:21 PM »
Very many thanks for your extremely prompt reply.

I will send off for the document and will no doubt post the findings so as to pass on the information to Seasons.

Splad

CMcG

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Re: Mary Jane Allen nee McCullan
« Reply #40 on: May 05, 2019, 01:22:04 AM »
It looks like Mary Jane McCullen may have been a bit older than thought, for I can see a transcription of a Monkstown (Co. Dublin) Church of Ireland baptism for a Mary Jane MacCullen on 20 December 1863 (DOB given as 25 October 1863), parents recorded as Joseph and Anne MacCullen of Kingstown, Joseph described as a seaman.

The same parents' details are recorded in the baptism of a James MacCullen on 25 January 1859 (DOB 26 February 1858) at the Mariners Church Co. Dublin, likewise a child baptised at that church as George Walter Robert MacCullen (I think - the transcription name is confusing) on 14 September 1856 (DOB 3 June 1856), likewise a child baptised as Joseph MacCullen on 11 October 1865 (DOB 8 September 1865).

The last of these falls after civil registration and that DOB of 8 September 1865 matches the following birth at Kelly's Avenue Kingstown for a child registered as Joseph 'McCullogh', father Joseph's profession recorded as sailor and the mother's name looks like Anna 'Barterham':

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1865/03564/2312973.pdf

So the 1850 Anne Batterham marriage is looking promising.




Splad

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Re: Mary Jane Allen nee McCullan
« Reply #41 on: May 05, 2019, 09:50:59 AM »
What can I say? You have succeeded in a very short time achieving what I have been endeavouring to do for ages! Yes, Mary Jane McCullen is apparently older than at first thought, but that DOB fits in much better with the ages of her siblings, coming between William (1861) and Joseph Junior (1865).

James and George Robert McCullen were the two brothers drowned when their boat was sunk, and the Joseph you have found is Joseph Nelson McCullen. The DOBs you are quoting are supported by the various Coastguard Service Records I have. And yes, I am now convinced that my candidate for Mary Jane's mother, spouse of Joseph, was indeed Anne Batterham. Thank you so much.

Splad


CMcG

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Re: Mary Jane Allen nee McCullan
« Reply #42 on: May 05, 2019, 01:31:38 PM »
You're welcome.  :)


Splad

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Re: Mary Jane Allen nee McCullan
« Reply #43 on: May 06, 2019, 10:51:13 AM »
It never ends! Just been checking records on the Irish Genealogy site and thought I would check my ancestry tree, particularly Elizabeth K McCullen who seemed (according to references I had) to have married John Rule after John Sumner. I came across the marriage record for John Sumner (a coastguard) dated 23rd October 1872, in Ballyphillip, marrying an Ellen McCullen (father James described as a harbourmaster). Who was Ellen, I ask? Turns out to be yet another child of James and Ellen McCullen, born 1845 and died in 1912 (sister Elizabeth Rule{McCullen} present at death). So how did I have Elizabeth also marrying John Sumner? Found John David Sumner's birth registration (father John Sumner coastguard) and his mother is recorded as 'Eliza' Sumner, formerly Mccullen, but then it says in the informant column, Ellen McCullen, present at birth, Portaferry. Mystery solved, and a new half sister for Joseph.

Splad

CMcG

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Re: Mary Jane Allen nee McCullan
« Reply #44 on: May 06, 2019, 11:53:08 AM »
Goodness, such twists and turns, I think the peripatetic nature of the McCullen family sailing / naval / coastguard profession and the Allen family railway profession has lent an interesting dimension to this throughout.