Mary Jane Allen nee McCullan

[Seasons]

I have requested help concerning this search before - hopefully I'll explain a little better this time.

I am trying to find a John Allen who worked for GNR in Belfast and then Maghera
He Married Mary Jane McCullan - their Marriage doesn't seem to be registered in Northern Ireland - I checked this out at GRONI plus I ALSO requested a Search by the Staff and they couldn't confirm it either.

Mary Jane Allen died 15th February 1903 She's buried in Belfast City Cemetery

They were at Maghera Railway Station in1893 where their youngest son was born - John Francis Allen 24/12/1893
 
I would like to try and find their Marriage Information

I believe that some of the family came from Scotland

Would anyone have access to the Scottish Records? and if so could i get help in locating this informaion.

Their Eldest Son George Hercules Allen birth isn't Registered in Northern Ireland either so he may have been born in Scotland
.

Many Thanks in Advance

Seasons .

[CMcG]

Here is the marriage:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1889/10750/5920414.pdf

BTW, the Mary Jane Allen you mentioned (died 15th February 1903) was a different person, she was the wife of Alexander Rea Allen.

[CMcG]

... BTW, the Mary Jane Allen you mentioned (died 15th February 1903) was a different person, she was the wife of Alexander Rea Allen.

I would say that this is a better prospect:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1895/05944/4688886.pdf

Her address and age are different in the burial record (could be mistranscriptions), but it is the same person alright:
https://dof.belfastcity.gov.uk/burialsearch/BurialSearch.aspx?GraveSection=I3&GraveNumber=21&CemeteryName=City%20Cemetery

I say better prospect, because the John and Annie Jane Loney in the same grave look like they are John Allen's brother-in-law and sister:
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Leitrim/Ballinamore/Canabel__High_Street/1481462/
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Leitrim/Ballinamore/Hugh_Street/645824/
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1883/10946/8000564.pdf

And Annie Jane Loney cropped up as a witness at the 1897 marriage of her (and John Allen's) brother James to Catherine Smith, so it all hangs together:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1897/10459/5808754.pdf

[CMcG]

... Their Eldest Son George Hercules Allen birth isn't Registered in Northern Ireland either so he may have been born in Scotland

What is your source for this child?  After the marriage in 1889, they had children Ann Jane, Robert Joseph and John Francis in fairly quick succession, how does George Hercules fit in?

[CMcG]

John Allen's given address at the time of his marriage to Mary Jane McCullen in Co. Dublin in November 1889 was 62 Upper Meadow Street Belfast.  The closest available online Belfast street directory (1890) shows the following entry for Upper Meadow Street:
62 Parkinson, John, clerk

The next available directory (1892) shows the following:
62 Parkinson, D., clerk

Hardly surprising therefore, to discover the following David Parkinson in 1901, with his wife sarah and his nephew, one Robert Joseph Allen:
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Antrim/Duncairn_Ward/Moyola_Street/959552/

Sarah and nephew in 1911:
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Antrim/Dock_Ward/Upper_Meadow_Street/137946/

David in railway accommodation in 1911:
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Antrim/Templecorran/York_Avenue/189163/

David Parkinson married Sarah Sidney Allen in 1886, the bride was the daughter of Robert Allen station master (no surprise there), the witnesses were... John and Annie Loney:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1886/10847/5960526.pdf

[Seasons]

CMcG

Thank you for all this information, i have some of it but not it all.

Ann Jane Allen who was with the Loneys in the 1901 and 1911 Cenus Married the Lodger Joseph Shanks - they became my Dads Adopted Family in 1928 while living in Moira and then a move to Portadown - Following the Train Tracks.

My Dad was told that George Hercules was his Uncle - Ann Jane's Eldest brother!

When Mary Jane Died at such a young age the Boys and Ann had to go and live with Family - hence them all being scattered over Ireland.

I believe George Hercules went to the Cookstown Area, he had 2 Daughters Beth and Francis, Beth i believe died young and Fracancis Married Henderson Bell - Farmer from Moneymore Direction.. This Family then i believe reitred to Bangor.

So! Mary Jane McCullen was from Dublin? i need to try and find out  now if her family had any connections to Hughes - Loughran - Toner.

Could I ask if you would be able to find out when John Allen went off to Newcastle on Tyne and if he remarried? on Ann Jane's Marriage Certificate to Joseph Shanks it states her address was N. O. T. They married 3/1/1921 at Sinclair Seaman Belfast. and George Hercules Allen was one of the witnesses along with Irene Gertrude Allen - this could be George's Wife but not sure.

Thank you for joining up the Dots with the marriage CMcG.

Seasons

[CMcG]

I'll have a look and come back, but I don't have access to many English resources. 

For now, just to say that when I was looking over your stuff last night I happened upon the following chap and 'parked' him, because although I thought that he might be related, given the name, (maybe a cousin), his age didn't fit your information (the chap below was born c. 1897):

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Londonderry/Moneyhaw/Derrycrummy/614876/

Now I've dug out the marriage for the above couple, it's interesting that widow Elizabeth Turkington was living in South Dublin with a father given as Robert Allen:

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1903/10252/5731253.pdf

However, father Robert Allen was described as a farmer (not station master), so maybe not what it seems? 

In addition, the indicative birth year for the George Hercules Allen in the above 1911 census return fits with a 1918 RAF record for a George Hercules Allen who says he was born in Dublin on 7 January 1897 and that his next of kin was his father John Allen living in Newcastle on Tyne.

So I'm starting to think that this IS your guy and that a few details have gone awry in your family lore passed down, as the 1911 census return and the RAF record indicate that this chap was born after Mary Jane McCullen Allen died.  For example, could he be a younger step-brother to Ann Jane rather than an older full brother? If John Allen hadn't remarried, could his birth have been registered under a different surname?

Anyhow I will post again in due course with more detail, including the Newcastle on Tyne address for the father.
 

[CMcG]

... Could I ask if you would be able to find out when John Allen went off to Newcastle on Tyne and if he remarried? on Ann Jane's Marriage Certificate to Joseph Shanks it states her address was N. O. T. They married 3/1/1921 at Sinclair Seaman Belfast. and George Hercules Allen was one of the witnesses along with Irene Gertrude Allen - this could be George's Wife but not sure.

Does the following 1901 census return reflect a second marriage to a Marion Bell, are Annie and John in effect Ann Jane and John Francis from the previous marriage, with Marion being a child of the second marriage? 
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Antrim/Duncairn_Ward__Belfast/St__Aubyn_Street/933017/

Marion's birth registration:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1897/02109/1802794.pdf

Followed by a sister Irene Gertrude Bell Allen:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1902/01892/1735268.pdf

But have a look at this, it's definitely George, despite the age inconsistency, presumably this is Elizabeth's former husband (before William Rutherford), again a large age difference:
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Dublin/Stillorgan/Kill_O_Grange/1314514/

I'm still trying to get my head round all of this.

[CMcG]

As I guessed, the marriage of John Allen to Mary Ann Bell, July 1896, Co. Dublin, the groom's father... Robert Allen a station master:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1896/10500/5824186.pdf

John's recorded as a bachelor, but I'm reasonably confident that it's him, given how everything else fits together.

Have still to resolve if George Hercules was a late baby to Mary Jane McCullen Allen, an early baby to Mary Ann / Marion Bell Allen, or 'something else'.

Edited to add: John's address in the above 1896 marriage registration was given as 5 Granville Street Belfast.  The 1897 Belfast street directory on the PRONI website shows the following entry for Granville Street:

5 Loney, Annie

So little doubt now.

[CMcG]

... Now I've dug out the marriage for the above couple, it's interesting that widow Elizabeth Turkington was living in South Dublin with a father given as Robert Allen:

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1903/10252/5731253.pdf

However, father Robert Allen was described as a farmer (not station master), so maybe not what it seems?  ...

Found the Turkington - Allen marriage, this time, the bride's father is listed as a Station master Northern Cos (Counties) Railway, so that settles that, George Hercules Allen in the 1911 census is indeed your man:

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1893/10607/5864576.pdf

[Seasons]

Will  take me a few days to compute all this CMcG! I knew something wasn't quite right concerning Dates and not being able to find Mary Jane's Marriage plus George Hercules Birth..

Thanks so much for all this I will get back to when i get this sorted in my own head!

Seasons

[CMcG]

The gist of R.A.F. airman's service record for no. 306731 George Hercules Allen is as follows...

Birth date: 7 January 1897
Birthplace: Town=Dublin Parish=Grange County=Dublin
Religious denomination: Presbyterian
Date of entry into R.A.F.: 9 October 1918, aged 21 at that date
Civilian occupation: farmer
Description: Height=5'4" Chest=33.5" Hair=Brown Eyes=Blue Complexion=Fresh
Transfer to R.A.F. Reserve: 11 March 1919
Person to be informed of casualties: John Allen, 9 Heaton Grove, Newcastle on Tyne Relationship=Father

I noticed a further daughter born to John Allen and Mary Ann / Marion Bell in Belfast, presumably named after John's sister Sarah Sidney (married to David Parkinson), the birth in December 1906 took place at their address, 211 York Road:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1906/01722/1681292.pdf

The Belfast Street directories on the Lennon Wylie website show the following entries for York Road:
1907: 211. Allen, J., clerk
1908: 211. Vacant

By 1911, what is clearly him and his family are living at 27 Orchard Road, Tranmere, Birkenhead, they are listed in the census as:

- John Allen (Head of household) a 42 year old married shipyard clerk, born Portrush, Co Antrim Ireland
- Marion Allen his 39 year old wife, married 15 years with 3 children born, all still alive, born Kingstown Co Dublin
- John Allen, 17 year old son, single, an apprentice engineer in the shipyard, born Maghera Co Derry
- Mary Allen, 13 year old daughter at school, born Belfast
- Irene Allen, 8 year old daughter at school, born Belfast
- Sarah Allen, 4 year old daughter, born Belfast
- William Allen, a boarder, 34 year old and single, a Loco Engine Driver in the shipyard, born Portrush Co Antrim

So I'm guessing that the move across the water took place 1907-1910, presumably chasing work, maybe also the driver for ending up later in Newcastle on Tyne

[CMcG]

... Have still to resolve if George Hercules was a late baby to Mary Jane McCullen Allen, an early baby to Mary Ann / Marion Bell Allen, or 'something else' ...

I’m still struggling to find a birth registration for George Hercules Allen, so just putting this out as a speculative possibility.

The relevant 1901 Ireland Census return (ie. showing him living in Co Dublin with John Allen’s sister Elizabeth and her husband John J Turkington) stated a birthplace of Belfast and indicated a birth year c. 1895.

The relevant 1911 Ireland Census return (ie. showing him living in Co Londonderry with John Allen’s sister Elizabeth and her second husband William Rutherford) stated a birthplace of Belfast and indicated a birth year C. 1897

His 1918 R.A.F. service record stated a birthplace of Dublin and a birth date of 7 January 1897.

Here’s the thing.  When Mary Jane (McCullen) Allen died in 1895, her death registration cited cause of death and duration of illness as Confinment 18 days Cerebral Embolism 3 days Certified.  So far, I haven’t been able to find a birth or death registration for the child she had 18 days earlier.  When you work back from the date of death, it places birth around 6 January.  Now that is a close fit for the birth day-month that George Hercules provided for his R.A.F. record.

So the scenario I’m speculating is that George Hercules Allen was born on 6/7 January 1895, the birth left his mother gravely ill and her condition was compounded a fortnight later by a stroke, leading to her death on 24 January.  Because of the mother’s condition immediately after childbirth, George Hercules was placed into the care of John Allen’s sister Elizabeth, who was married a year and a half earlier to John James Turkington, had no children and was living in Co. Dublin.  With the upheaval and upset of Mary Jane (McCullen) Allen’s ill health and death and the move of Charles Hercules to Co. Dublin, the registration of his birth fell by the way.  Charles Hercules continued to live with John Allen’s sister Elizabeth right through to adulthood (and her second marriage to William Rutherford).

This scenario works in the other respect that while Elizabeth (Allen) Turkington Rutherford would have known that George Hercules was born in Belfast (hence the information in the 1901 and 1911 census returns), George Hercules himself would have had his earliest memories living in Dublin and may well have assumed he was born there (hence the R.A.F. record).  The difference in birth year (ie. 1897 in the R.A.F. record and the 1911 census) might simply be down to the general ‘looseness’ in age typical of that era.

All pure speculation of course, but it would resolve the missing 1895 child and missing birth registration for George Hercules in one go.

[CMcG]

... Here is the marriage:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1889/10750/5920414.pdf

In the 1889 marriage registration for John Allen and Mary Jane McCullen (above), the bride's father was stated to be Joseph McCullen, a retired naval officer.  Note therefore the following death in December 1892, it's for a 56 year old widower Joseph McCullen, a naval pensioner:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1892/06020/4714154.pdf

What's interesting is that the death took place at 13 Tivoli Terrace North, kingstown (Dún Laoghaire today), that is the exact same address that Elizabeth Allen gave 7 months later, when she married John James Turkington:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1893/10607/5864576.pdf

And of course, this in the context that Elizabeth Allen ended up rearing Mary Jane (McCullen) Allen's son, George Hercules Allen.

[CMcG]

The following is apparently a photograph of Joseph McCullen:
https://coastguardsofyesteryear.org/photogallery.php?photo_id=219

The background is covered in the following thread (note: there are 2 pages in it), it talks about various McCullens, you probably need to read it through to the end several times in order to zone in on Joseph and his sons and to be able to disregard the other McCullens (who may not be related) and the red herrings on the identity of Captain McCullen:
https://coastguardsofyesteryear.org/forum/viewthread.php?thread_id=62&rowstart=0

The key item in the above thread is the following entry, which mentions the address '68 Patrick Street, Kingstown' - this is the address that Mary Jane McCullen gave in the 1889 registration of marriage to John Allen:

1st July 1879
Administration of the Personal Estate of James McCullen of 68 Patrick Street, Kingstown in the County of Dublin in Ireland. Able Seaman in the Royal Navy a Bachelor who died 31st October 1878 at Sea was granted at the Principal Registry to Joseph McCullen of 68 Patrick St, Gentleman the father and next of kin.
Personal Estate under £20.

If I'm reading that thread correctly, the following is Joseph McCullen's son William (Mary Janes brother?):
https://coastguardsofyesteryear.org/photogallery.php?photo_id=220