Author Topic: Thomas Spence. Family tree  (Read 507 times)

skylark21

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Thomas Spence. Family tree
« on: April 26, 2019, 07:33:29 PM »
Hi I am trying to trace my grandfathers family tree but not having much luck.

He was Thomas Spence, born in 1907/8

And was married to Frances Edith Hewitt.

They lived in palmer street on the woodvale which I figure is where he is from as my granny was from Moira.

He named his son Charles so I think he maybe had a brother called Charles or his father?? Clutching at straws with that one tbf. He died in then80's of Parkinson disease.

Any info would be much appreciated.

Also on my granny's side I'm looking info on the hewitts.
I know her sister Maud Hewitt married Joseph Baker and they lived on the woodvale somewhere too.

Many thanks 

Elwyn

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Re: Thomas Spence. Family tree
« Reply #1 on: April 27, 2019, 12:26:18 AM »
     Joseph Baker and Maud Hewitt were married in Belfast 11.7.1930.
Thomas Spence and Frances Hewitt were married in Belfast on 14.9.1940.
 
You can view those certificates on the GRONI site. They should give you the fatherís names and enable you to trace back correctly. (There are several births in the civil registers that might fit. Without the fatherís name and occupation, you would just be guessing).
 
Elwyn

CMcG

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CMcG

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Re: Thomas Spence. Family tree
« Reply #3 on: April 27, 2019, 02:46:38 AM »
From the Belfast Telegraph of 24 October 1959:
BAKER - October 23, 1959, at the Mater Hospital, MAUD, dearly-loved wife of Joseph Baker.  Funeral from her late residence, 89 Palmer Street, on Monday, at 1.30 p.m., to Family Burying-ground, Moira. Deeply regretted by her sorrowing husband ... Deeply regretted by her sorrowing Son and Daughter-in-law, Alfred Joseph and May Baker, and Grandchildren, 73 Brookmount Street ... Deeply regretted by her sorrowing Sister and Brother-in-law, Frances and Thomas Spence, and Family, 95 Palmer Street ... Deeply regretted by her sorrowing Brother-in-law, Samuel Baker, 79 Palmer Street

Palmer Street is covered by the Belfast Street directories on the Lennon Wylie website:
http://www.lennonwylie.co.uk/index.htm

Using the entries for Palmer Street in those directories, you can track the Bakers right back to the 1911 Ireland Census:

1960
79. Baker, Samuel, patrol officer
89. Baker, Joseph J., fitter
95. Spence, Thomas, yarn worker

1951
79. Baker, Samuel, carter
89. Baker, Joseph, fitter
95. Spence, Thomas, bleach worker

1943
79. Baker, Samuel, carter
89. Baker, Joseph
95. Spence, Thomas, patrol man

1939
79. Baker, Samuel, carter
89. Baker, Mrs.

1932
79. Baker, Samuel
89. Baker, Joseph, fitter

1924
89. Baker, Joseph, fitter

1918
89. Baker, Joseph, fitter

1912
89. Baker, Joseph, fitter

No. 89 Palmer Street in the 1911 census:
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai001513555/
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Antrim/Shankill/Palmer_Street/177536/


CMcG

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Re: Thomas Spence. Family tree
« Reply #4 on: April 27, 2019, 03:01:41 AM »
Belfast Telegraph, 13 November 1976:
BAKER, JOSEPH - November 12, 1976 (peacefully at hospital) beloved Husband of the late Maud Baker.  Funeral from his late residence 89 Palmer Street, on Monday at 1 p.m. to Carnmoney Cemetery - Deeply regretted by his sorrowing Son and Daughter-in-law Joe and May and Family, 38 Mountcashel Street. A good father and companion.


CMcG

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Re: Thomas Spence. Family tree
« Reply #5 on: April 27, 2019, 04:13:41 AM »
Belfast Telegraph, 1949 (summarised):
HEWITT - March 23, 1949, at her residence, Meeting Street, Moira, MARGARET (PEGGY), widow of ALFRED HEWITT.  Funeral tomorrow (Friday), at 2.30 p.m., to the family burying-ground, Moira Churchyard ... Deeply regretted by her loving Daughter and Son-in-law, Adelaide and Herbert Magill, and Grandchildren, 2 Lower Clara Crescent, Bloomfield ... Deeply regretted by her Daughter, Son-in-law and Grandchildren Frances and Thomas Spence, 95 Palmer Street, Belfast ... Deeply regretted by her Daughter, Son-in-law and Grandson, Maud, Joseph and Joe Baker, 89 Palmer Street, Belfast ... Deeply regretted by her sorrowing Daughter, Son-in-law and Grandchildren, Mary and Thomas Dougherty, 34 Chapel Hill, Lisburn ... Deeply regretted by her sorrowing Grandson and Wife, William and Sadie Magill, 2 Dunraven Gardens, Bloomfield ...  Deeply regretted by her sorrowing Grandson John and Margaret Magill

The online GRONI death index shows a reported age at death for Margaret of 78.

Here is the marriage of the above mentioned Thomas Dougherty to Mary Hewitt in Lisburn Cathedral Church of Ireland in 1913 (dreadful writing), the bride's father stated as Alfred Hewitt, a carpenter, and Adelaide Hewitt was one of the witnesses:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1913/09896/5595694.pdf

Here is the marriage of the above mentioned Herbert Magill to Adelaide Hewitt in 1916, the bride's father stated as Alfred Hewitt, a carpenter:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1916/09776/5548498.pdf

All of the above information reads across well to this family in 1901 and 1911:
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Down/Moira/Clare/1243112/
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Down/Moira/Clare/251981/

You can find the birth registrations for the children in the above census returns here (select 'Civil Records'):
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/en/

For example, here is the birth of daughter Frances Edith Hewitt to Alfred Victor Hewitt and Margaret Kidd in 1901:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1901/01947/1752551.pdf

Alfred Victor Hewitt married Margaret Kidd in Lisburn Cathedral Church of Ireland  on New Year's Day 1890, the two fathers were recorded as John Hewitt, a farmer and Abraham Kidd, a labourer:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1890/10690/5896205.pdf

The PRONI Will Calendars index has an Administration case (ie. no will) which looks like Margaret's father:
Administration of the Estate of Abraham Kidd late of Trummery County Antrim Farmer who died 2 January 1885 granted at Belfast to Margaret Hewitt Married Woman.

Trummery is just NE of Moira in Magheramesk parish:
https://www.townlands.ie/antrim/massereene-upper/magheramesk/trummery/

An Abraham Kidd (father Abraham Kidd, labourer) and a Mary Anne Jenkins (father John Jenkins, labourer) of Magheramesk parish got married in Lisburn on 2 April 1849, they went on to have many children, including this daughter Margaret Kidd at Trummery 17 May 1866:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1866/03533/2300460.pdf


CMcG

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Re: Thomas Spence. Family tree
« Reply #6 on: April 27, 2019, 04:44:10 AM »
Alfred Victor Hewitt was born in Moira in 1864, parents given as John Hewitt (Pensioner) and Mary McClure:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1864/03630/2340303.pdf

John Hewitt and Mary McClure, both from the townland of Kilminioge in Moira parish, got married in the Lurgan Registrar's office on 28 July 1848.  According to the marriage registration, widower John was a 27 year old weaver, the son of James Hewitt a farmer, spinster Mary was the 22 year old daughter of George McClure a farmer, the witnesses were a George Hewitt and an Eliza Jane Auld.

Kilminioge:
https://www.townlands.ie/down/iveagh-lower-upper-half/moira/kilminioge/


skylark21

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Re: Thomas Spence. Family tree
« Reply #7 on: April 27, 2019, 08:44:15 AM »
Alfred Victor Hewitt was born in Moira in 1864, parents given as John Hewitt (Pensioner) and Mary McClure:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1864/03630/2340303.pdf

John Hewitt and Mary McClure, both from the townland of Kilminioge in Moira parish, got married in the Lurgan Registrar's office on 28 July 1848.  According to the marriage registration, widower John was a 27 year old weaver, the son of James Hewitt a farmer, spinster Mary was the 22 year old daughter of George McClure a farmer, the witnesses were a George Hewitt and an Eliza Jane Auld.

Kilminioge:
https://www.townlands.ie/down/iveagh-lower-upper-half/moira/kilminioge/

Wow thank you so much for all the information, this is so helpful. I am so new to all the record findings etc and had no clue. I've found out loads since yesterday.
I can start adding to the family tree. Would live to find out even more about my grandad Thomas Spence if you could help at all. Ihave narrowed it down to 2 different people. So any info on siblings r parents would be amazing.
Again thank you so much.

skylark21

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Re: Thomas Spence. Family tree
« Reply #8 on: April 27, 2019, 08:48:12 AM »
     Joseph Baker and Maud Hewitt were married in Belfast 11.7.1930.
Thomas Spence and Frances Hewitt were married in Belfast on 14.9.1940.
 
You can view those certificates on the GRONI site. They should give you the fatherís names and enable you to trace back correctly. (There are several births in the civil registers that might fit. Without the fatherís name and occupation, you would just be guessing).

Thanks for that. Yes it's really difficult to determine without my grandads parents name  Even just one would be great.

CMcG

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Re: Thomas Spence. Family tree
« Reply #9 on: April 27, 2019, 10:15:30 AM »
Thomas Spence was 32 when he married Frances Edith Hewitt in 1940, the bride's details in the marriage record tie in with everything I've already posted (hers was a Palmer Street address, her father given as Alfred Hewitt a carpenter).  Turning to the groom, his address was given as Ballynaris, Dromore and his father was given as Samuel Spence.  The best fit for him is this birth:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1908/01647/1657722.pdf

Which reads across to this family in 1911:
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Down/Dromore_Rural/Ballynaris/207444/

The parents, Samuel Spence and Margaret Dillon, got married in Dromore Church of Ireland in 1908, the two fathers were given as James Spence and Robert Dillon:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1908/10051/5655734.pdf

As well as son Thomas, the couple had the following children...
George Alexander in 1910:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1910/01563/1630846.pdf
Anna Matilda in 1911:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1911/01512/1614181.pdf
Samuel John in 1913:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1913/01444/1590829.pdf
Walter in 1915:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1915/01370/1564658.pdf
 
Thomas' brother, Samuel John Spence, was known as John and he died at the end of WW2 in a prison camp, leaving a wife Georgina and two little daughters Joyce and Margaret.  His grave/ memorial is in Hanover War Cemetery:
https://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/2101038/spence,-john/

An 'in memoriam' entry in the Belfast Telegraph of 28 March 1947 included the mention of his brother and sister-in-law 'Thomas and Frances Spence, Palmer Street, Belfast':




skylark21

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Re: Thomas Spence. Family tree
« Reply #10 on: April 27, 2019, 12:04:43 PM »
Oh my this is truly fantastic. Thank you so much you are amazing.

Clareybells1985

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Re: Thomas Spence. Family tree
« Reply #11 on: August 08, 2019, 08:19:55 AM »
Hi,

Iím hoping this message is seen by Frances Spence as Iíve found and read your message on ancestry - Iím an ancestor of the family members you are talking about here and would love to chat to you.  I am the granddaughter of Thomas Spencesí brother George Spence.