Author Topic: Quinn/Beckett  (Read 1800 times)

Geraldine1234

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 66
Quinn/Beckett
« on: July 16, 2019, 07:25:46 PM »
I visited GRONI today and was able to confirm some of my fathers siblings d.o.b. His mother's maiden name has been confirmed as Beckett. Now, the saga thus far
Grandfather:   William James Quinn
                      D. 1952 @ 73
                      Dob.c 1878/79
Grandmother:  Margaret Neill (formally Quinn nee Beckett)
                       D. 1967 @ 67
                        Dob. c 1899/1900
Found marriage with corresponding names (as detailed on another post) but d.o.b seem funny 1884 and 1893 and William's profession is recorded as 1st class air mechanic which I am unsure of. On my dads birth cert. William's profession is recorded as a motor driver and on my parents marriage certificate (1954) he is recorded as policeman deceased.
My grandmother remarried in 1953 hence the surname Neill but on this occasion her fathers name is recorded as William Thomas Beckett if the previous marriage entry is correct his name was John!  Sorry for the rambling but any help/advice will be gratefully received.

James James

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16744
Re: Quinn/Beckett
« Reply #1 on: July 17, 2019, 04:42:58 AM »

Geraldine1234

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 66
Re: Quinn/Beckett
« Reply #2 on: July 17, 2019, 11:47:23 AM »
RE: Quinn/Beckett
Morning all. Posted this yesterday. I totally understand that no one can say yea or nay about my finds but would love if some of the knowledgeable members could suggest what my next steps may be. Many thanks
G

CMcG

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8510
Re: Quinn/Beckett
« Reply #3 on: July 17, 2019, 11:52:40 AM »
If the experience of others is like mine, then folk are struggling to gain much if any traction on this.  I'm struggling so far to find anything on Maggie Beckett, and while I did find the following on a William James Quinn, I'm really not sure if it's your William James Quinn, so I'm just posting the following 3 records in case anything rings a bell for you (the service number in each case indicates that this is the same man): 

Record #1 - The Royal Air Force Muster Roll for 1918 lists a W. J. Quinn, an Air Mechanic grade who commenced in July 1917 as a Mechanical Transport Driver.  His airforce service number was 89195. 

Record #2 - The Royal Air Force Airmen Records show a William James Quinn, service number 89195, with a service (commencement) date of 18 July 1917, birth year 1882, birthplace Ballygawley, Tyrone, trade recorded as driver, he was promoted to 'AM 1' in July 1918, his next of kin was given as Harry Quinn, his brother, of 16 Neely Street Belfast, the record says that he previously served in the Army Service Corps Mechanical Transport (Yeomanry) up to 2016.

Record #3 - A pension record card for a William James Quinn, service number 89195 (Royal Air Force), year of birth 1870, rank '1 AM', the record shows that he was discharged from service on 22 February 1919, his then address was listed as 33 Upper Townsend Street, his pension award was for 'DAH' (Disordered Action of the Heart, a functional disorder characterized by rapid or irregular heartbeat, shortness of breath, and chest pain, which to some extent reads across to the more modern vernacular of Post Traumatic Stress Disorder), his disability was assessed to be in the region of 30-40% and was payable until 1930, when he was marked as 'OK'.

Looking at the addresses mentioned above, the 1918 Belfast street directory on the Lennon Wylie website shows no. 16 Neely Street in the name of William Quinn a labourer (as does the 1924 directory). I'm conscious that the 1926 Belfast burial records for Margaret and Delia Quinn cited last residence in Jersey Street, so I'm not sure what if anything to make of this Neely Street address. The 1918 street directory for 33 Upper Townsend Street is in the name of Margaret Rooney.  Which reads across to this woman in 1911 who is taking in boarders, so no leads there:
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Antrim/Court_Ward/Townsend_Street_Upper/150056/

It is tempting to assume that the man above is the one who married Maggie Beckett in 1919 on the basis that the occupation is a good match, likewise the 1882 birth year in record #2 is a reasonable match to the age of the William James Quinn in the 1919 marriage registration and then there is also the convenience of that fact that he was discharged just a fortnight before your man got married.  But then there is that large variance in birth year between records #2 and #3, what is that about?

I couldn't readily find a William James Quinn birth/baptism in Ballygawley within the early 1880s timeframe suggested by record #2, however there was someone of that name born to a 'scutcher' called James Quinn and his wife Margaret Ferris in 1870 (more in line with record #3):
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1870/03345/2226245.pdf

The same couple had several other children including a son Henry in 1881 (could this be Harry?) - BTW, this couple's children were baptised RC, the 1919 marriage of William James Quinn to Maggie Beckett was a Registrar's Office marriage, which initially made me wonder if a mixed marriage?:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1881/02803/2028727.pdf

But it's all really flimsy/speculative stuff. Is there anything in the above 3 records that jumps out for you to confirm if it's the right man or not?

If there are any images posted above that are important to you, take your own copy - I cannot guarantee they will appear indefinitely.

CMcG

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8510
Re: Quinn/Beckett
« Reply #4 on: July 17, 2019, 12:42:42 PM »

Record #2 - The Royal Air Force Airmen Records show a William James Quinn, service number 89195, with a service (commencement) date of 18 July 1917, birth year 1882, birthplace Ballygawley, Tyrone, trade recorded as driver, he was promoted to 'AM 1' in July 1918, his next of kin was given as Harry Quinn, his brother, of 16 Neely Street Belfast, the record says that he previously served in the Army Service Corps Mechanical Transport (Yeomanry) up to 2016.


And sure enough, there is an army record for a William James Quinn (reg. no 138448) who signed up for the Army Service Corps (Mechanical Transport) in January 1916, he described himself as a 43 year old motor driver (so born c. 1872-3), there is reference to previous service in the Imperial Yeomanry in the period 1900-1902, including Eygpt and Africa [my note: although not stated, it sounds like the Boer War], his next of kin was recorded as Margaret Quinn, his mother, of 16 Neely Street Belfast, his place of birth given as Ballygawley.  He was discharged a few month later on medical grounds ('defective teeth').

I'm starting to wonder if this may indeed be your man... I can understand the motive in his knocking a few years off his age both for his RAF enlistment in 1917 and for his marriage in 1919, if so, the most accurate birth year therefore being the one associated with his pension award..?

If there are any images posted above that are important to you, take your own copy - I cannot guarantee they will appear indefinitely.

Geraldine1234

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 66
Re: Quinn/Beckett
« Reply #5 on: July 17, 2019, 01:19:45 PM »
Sorry was typing a reply to you and It dissappeared! ???  So here we go again.
Thanks for taking the time to reply and research this. It was as you say the difference in the birth years suggested on the wedding and death registers that had me puzzled. All the siblings are deceased. I never remember my dad mentioning Henry. I do remember my Aunt saying there was a big age difference between William and Margaret. The siblings are as follows:
Daisy Diana Quinn.       Dob 23.12.1919
Delia Quinn.                        13.5.1921
Margaret Quinn.                    28.10.1922
William James Quinn.            5.1.1924
Major Quinn.                         19.9.1925
Gerald Quinn.                        28.4.1927 (my dad)
Walter Quinn.                         27.11.1929
Austin Quinn.                         19.5.1931
My dads birth is also registered to 13 Jersey Street
Walter and Austin are registered to 12 Arras Park in Bangor
I found a small family photo with the address showing as 29 Mountview Street( registered as Walter residence at time of death 1944) then scribbled beneath Mountview was 176 Alliance Avenue .

Geraldine1234

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 66
Re: Quinn/Beckett
« Reply #6 on: July 17, 2019, 01:27:56 PM »
Sorry postscript to the above.
Family tittle tattle as follows
William served in the New York Police
He was a policeman here( recorded on wedding cert.of my parents and Uncles as well)
They had houses in Ballywalter
They bred dogs for the army( think somewhere inLigoniel from my dad)
They lived in Ards Bangor Ballywalter was mentioned Flush Road above Ligoniel various address in Belfast
Margaret use to breed Scottie dogs as well
Again many thanks and apologies if my jumbled ramblings post more than once lol

Geraldine1234

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 66
Re: Quinn/Beckett
« Reply #7 on: July 17, 2019, 02:51:08 PM »
CMcG thanks once again. Found 1924 Lennon/Wylie street directory
13 Jersey Street W. J. Quinn. Motor driver.   ???


CMcG

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8510
Re: Quinn/Beckett
« Reply #8 on: July 17, 2019, 04:42:15 PM »

...  The siblings are as follows:

Daisy Diana Quinn.       Dob 23.12.1919
Delia Quinn.                        13.5.1921
Margaret Quinn.                    28.10.1922
William James Quinn.            5.1.1924
Major Quinn.                         19.9.1925


What were the addresses cited for these earlier births? Also (and you don't have to say), do you know if that generation (your father, uncles and aunts) lived their lives as Catholic Church or Church of Ireland?

BTW, Arras Park, off the Gransha Road in Bangor, then comprised houses provided by the Soldiers and Sailor's Trust - that fact sits comfortably with William James Quinn's stated residence in the 1919 marriage registration (Soldiers and Sailors Service Club Belfast).  A newspaper story of 1929 about a neighbour dispute confirms that a William James Quinn was indeed living at number 12 in Arras Park.

Just thinking out loud and turning the analysis around for a moment, the only actual documentary evidence (as distinct from family lore) for the William James Quinn who married Maggie Beckett in 1919, is the civil marriage registration, ie.

- he was born c. 1884;
- his occupation in 1919 was '1st class Air Mechanic';
- his residence was 'Soldiers and Sailors Service Club Belfast';
- his father was James Quinn, farmer.

If MY William James Quinn, ie. Air Mechanic 1 grade (with birth years varying from 1870 to 1873 to 1882) who was discharged to Belfast a fortnight before the marriage of YOUR William James Quinn to Maggie Beckett isn't him, then it means that there must be 2 William James Quinns who were Air Mechanics (1st class) at that time in that location.   

In terms of probability, that's why I'm leaning slightly towards mine being yours. If we could only get some minor detail (like an address)  to either tie them together or disconnect them ...

If there are any images posted above that are important to you, take your own copy - I cannot guarantee they will appear indefinitely.

Geraldine1234

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 66
Re: Quinn/Beckett
« Reply #9 on: July 17, 2019, 05:06:17 PM »
Hi . I have to get back to GRONI and display the full birth registrations to get the addresses. I do know the others were registered in Belfast district only Austin and Walter were registered in Ards district. When my grandmother Margaret remarried 28.4.1953 her age was given as 52 but with this lot I do not know if it is fact or wishful thinking on their behalf lol. This time she recorded her father as William Thomas Beckett. All the family as far as I am aware are C.O.I.  I'm intrigued, what was the neighbour dispute in 1929? Once again thank for your time, I really do appreciate it.
Geraldine

Geraldine1234

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 66
Re: Quinn/Beckett
« Reply #10 on: July 17, 2019, 07:35:47 PM »
CMcG  looking at this birth record
Henry John Quinn. 13.7.1877
District Clougher. Parents James Quinn. (Scutcher) / Margaret Quinn(nee Ferris)
My dad used to mention his Uncle John???.

Geraldine1234

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 66
Re: Quinn/Beckett
« Reply #11 on: July 17, 2019, 08:24:16 PM »
Sorry dismiss my last post. It was incorrect. I have found John Watson Quinn 3.1.1868
Born to the same parents you indicated for William James. As I said my dad would mention his Uncle John and I think Aunt Martha(?) and something about them having a boarding house along the front near pickie pool in Bangor.


CMcG

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8510
Re: Quinn/Beckett
« Reply #12 on: July 18, 2019, 12:40:07 AM »

... I'm intrigued, what was the neighbour dispute in 1929? ...


Here's the start of the article, it's from the North Down Herald and County Down Independent of 31 August 1929, it then continues on and on... and on and on, with the central allegations being the throwing of flower pots, the upshot is that everyone was bound over to keep the peace:



When it talks about the wife's condition above, presumably it means that she was expecting Walter, elsewhere it mentions that they have 4 children, who are presumably Daisy, William James, Major and Gerald.

If there are any images posted above that are important to you, take your own copy - I cannot guarantee they will appear indefinitely.

Geraldine1234

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 66
Re: Quinn/Beckett
« Reply #13 on: July 18, 2019, 12:50:17 AM »
Thank you so much. Now I am a descendant from a bunch of hooligans lol. Will post the other addresses when I get them.
Many thanks
Geraldine

CMcG

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8510
Re: Quinn/Beckett
« Reply #14 on: July 18, 2019, 03:40:22 AM »
Here is the death on 24 April 1917 of Margaret Quinn of 16 Neely Street, widow of James Quinn, the informant is her son WJ Quinn of same address:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1917/05216/4443133.pdf

16 Neely Street was the same address cited in both the Royal Airforce record #2 and Army Service Corps record for William James Quinn.

Margaret Quinn was buried in grave C3 560 in Dundonald Cemetery, here are the grave occupants:
https://dof.belfastcity.gov.uk/burialsearch/BurialSearch.aspx?GraveSection=C3&GraveNumber=560&CemeteryName=Dundonald%20Cemetery

Which reads across to these folk in 1901 and 1911 (it's widow Margaret Ferris Quinn, as verified by the births for children Wilson, David etc.):
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Antrim/Falls_Ward/Leoville_Street/980584/
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Antrim/Shankill/Raleigh_Street/152520/

As usual, ages are all over the place in these various records.

If there are any images posted above that are important to you, take your own copy - I cannot guarantee they will appear indefinitely.