Author Topic: Quinn/Beckett  (Read 1125 times)

CMcG

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Re: Quinn/Beckett
« Reply #15 on: July 18, 2019, 10:55:28 AM »
When Margaret (Beckett Quinn) Neill died in 1967, her last residence was recorded as 207 Tennent Street. The 1960 Belfast street directory on the Lennon Wylie website shows the following entry for Tennent Street: 207. Neill, Mrs. Margaret.

Since the following appeared within that time period, in May 1962, it could imply that there was a sister Lily (Lilian?/Elizabeth?) Beckett who married a Thompson:




Geraldine1234

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Re: Quinn/Beckett
« Reply #16 on: July 18, 2019, 02:12:01 PM »
Just finished looking at the records. How on earth do you do it? You have discovered more in a few hours than I have in a lifetime! I remember visiting my grandmother a few times in Tennent Street. Austin and his wife Marie lived with her. I cannot recollect meeting her second husband so I am unsure if they were separated or if he was deceased. I cannot express my appreciation enough. I feel pieces of the jigsaw are slotting together eventually. I have to say they are very creative regarding their ages lol. Here's looking forward to more discoveries.
Thank you
Geraldine

CMcG

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Re: Quinn/Beckett
« Reply #17 on: July 19, 2019, 11:14:37 AM »
When you mentioned that Margaret Beckett gave her father's name as William Thomas in 1953 (compared to John in 1919), that rang alarm bells, for that sort of uncertainty can sometimes indicate illegitimacy. Park that for now.

Here's another speculative punt, this time on the Beckett side, there are some big gaps in terms of key records missing to support the story and there is the usual 'looseness' over ages, names (eg. Beckett / Bickett) etc., however other aspects seem to hang together quite well...

It is all based on the premise that when Maggie Neil posted the above death notice (reply #15) in 1962 for Lily Thompson, late of Bangor, who died in Victoria, Australia, Maggie described herself as Lily Thompson's sister.

When I went to look for the death in the Australian Death Index, I couldn't see one for a Lily, but there was one registered in Victoria in 1962 for a 70 year old Elizabeth Thompson, father's forename William, and intriguingly, mother's surname stated as Beckett (mother's forename was given as Elizabeth, but as you will see, the informant must have got this bit confused).

I then looked at passenger lists in the preceding years and the following one in 1953 quickly jumped out: a 65 year old Elizabeth Thompson and a 25 year old Mary Maisie Thompson (maybe a daughter?) travelling from London, England to Australia (moving permanently), specifically going to 310 Waiora Road, MacLeod, Melbourne, and here's why it jumped out - her last address in the UK was given as 19 Clandeboye Road, Bangor.   

Then note the following death notices in 1941 for a Mary Adams, wife of William, with daughters Martha, Winnie and Rose, also an only son sergeant William Beckett of 22 Clandeboye Place and a daughter Elizabeth Thompson of 19 Clandeboye Road, Bangor:



Then fast forward several decades to the 1976 death notice for William Thomas Beckett (Distinguished Conduct Medal) of 22 Clandeboye Place, husband of the late Agnes:



Which reads across to the following marriage in 1920, in which William Beckett D.C.M. married Agnes Morrow, the groom's father described as William Beckett deceased, farmer:   
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1920/09278/5359255.pdf

There was also the following snippet from 1919, mentioning addresses in King Street Bangor and East Street Newtownards:



More to follow.


CMcG

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Re: Quinn/Beckett
« Reply #18 on: July 19, 2019, 11:23:02 AM »
Continued...

Cutting to the chase, I found the following marriage registered in Newtownards in 1891 for a William Thomas Beckett and Mary Mays:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1891/10674/5890218.pdf

And the following births shortly thereafter in Belfast:

Lizzie b. 1892:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1892/02350/1878427.pdf

William Thomas b. 1893:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1893/02296/1861305.pdf

Also the following, the marriage of a Lily Bicket to William Thompson in Bangor in 1911, the bride's father given as William Thomas Bicket deceased (so now we know that Elizabeth was a.k.a. Lily):
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1911/09956/5619903.pdf

Then I noticed the following family in 1901 in East Street Newtownards:
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Down/Newtownards_Urban/East_Street/268212/

I haven't yet found the birth registration for 'Jeanie' in the above census return, but the birth registration for Martha shows that she was illegitimate:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1905/01777/1698850.pdf

I haven't yet found the marriage of Mary (Mays) Beckett to William Adams, but they went on to have children, eg. Winifred in 1911 - presumably the one mentioned in the 1941 death notice - note how it cites the mother as Mary Adams formerly Beckett previously Mays:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1911/01533/1621592.pdf

So you're probably wondering, where is Margaret/Maggie who married William James Quinn?  At this point, that's a gap, I haven't yet found a birth registration, however everything is still a work in progress, but given that Martha was illegitimate, one scenario has to be that she was as well (hence my opening comment at reply #17).  I can't yet find her in the 1901 census, was she perhaps farmed out, informally adopted / renamed?  More work in progress.  Another gap is that I cant readily see a death for William Thomas Beckett, clearly it was before 1911 according to the marriage of Lily Bicket and William Thompson.  Maybe he died in the mid 1890s and Mary went on to have more children (inc. Margaret and Martha) before meeting up with William Adams?

I'll stop at this point to let you digest and hear back what you think.


Geraldine1234

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Re: Quinn/Beckett
« Reply #19 on: July 19, 2019, 12:27:08 PM »
Dear Lord. I remember saying my dads family would be a challenge....I wasn't far wrong. Re:1911 census I noticed Jeanie place of birth is Scotland while the others are Co.Down
As I said previously I do remember my dad mentioning his Aunt Martha's guest house(?) in Bangor. Can't thank you enough for your time. Most difficult bit for me is recording this lol.
Geraldine

Geraldine1234

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Re: Quinn/Beckett
« Reply #20 on: July 19, 2019, 05:55:06 PM »
CMcG  I'm probably way off line here but on the 1911 census return there is  Margaret and a Mary Beckett living with their grandmother Mary Kerr(widow aged 68) in Ballywalter.

Geraldine1234

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Re: Quinn/Beckett
« Reply #21 on: July 19, 2019, 08:18:32 PM »
Hi torture here again. Now, as you know I get have a habit of gathering family that aren't mine but here goes. I was looking at the entry for Maggie and Williams marriage. One witness was Rachel Lester and Maggies address was given as  97 Wilton Street. I wondered what connection they had. Probably none but anyhow. The Lesters....Rachael Lester and Daniel Lester from Urney Street had a son Joseph.
Joseph Lester married Elizabeth Boyle 30.4.1914. They had a daughter Rachel born 23.6.1915 address 97 Wilton Street.
Elizabeth father is named as John Boyle. Now just humour me....
Birth registeration 22.9.1882 Elizabeth Boyle father Robert(John?) Boyle
                                            Mother Maggie Boyle formerly  Kerr
(Newtownards register)
Now I'm probably clutching at straws but could this be a connection re: Ballywalter census  1911 Kerr/Beckett and the Kerr/Boyle/Lester 97 Wilton Street .
Hope to hear your thinking soon
Geraldine

sam barry

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Re: Quinn/Beckett
« Reply #22 on: July 19, 2019, 08:40:31 PM »
Kerr/Beckett Marriage:
Record Type Civil Marriage
Date of Marriage 26 Mar 1877
Groom Name Henry KERR
Bride Name Mary BECKETT
Church Ballyhalbert Church of Ireland
Parish Ballyhalbert (St Andrews)
Civil District Newtownards
County Down


https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1877/11123/8072694.pdf


Henry Kerr's Death: 6th Feb 1895.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1895/05945/4689266.pdf


Hope this assists your research.

Geraldine1234

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Re: Quinn/Beckett
« Reply #23 on: July 19, 2019, 08:54:06 PM »
Thanks Sam. If you have been following this thread you will see I haven't a clue lol I have a Habit of making connections that are wishful rather than factual.  thankfully CMcG has been extremely helpful. This lot has the making of a soap opera!.
Geraldine.

CMcG

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Re: Quinn/Beckett
« Reply #24 on: July 19, 2019, 09:49:54 PM »

CMcG  I'm probably way off line here but on the 1911 census return there is  Margaret and a Mary Beckett living with their grandmother Mary Kerr(widow aged 68) in Ballywalter.


Still looking for births of Margaret and Mary Beckett, but note that a 70 year old widow Mary Kerr of Ballywalter died in 1913, the informant was her son Hugh of Ballywalter:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1913/05338/4486464.pdf

This looks like a candidate for Hugh in 1901 and 1911:
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Down/Ballywalter/Springvale/1256442/
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Down/Ballywalter/Springvale/265609/

The Hugh Kerr in the above census returns married Jane Beckett in 1885:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1885/10866/5968159.pdf


Geraldine1234

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Re: Quinn/Beckett
« Reply #25 on: July 19, 2019, 10:26:09 PM »
I thought the Quinn lineage was the awkward one but now the Becketts!. I'm probably reading too much into the Ballywalter connection just because my dad mentioned the family having houses in Ballywalter. I just was thinking along the lines that Elizabeth Lester and Maggie Beckett were related/known to each other as I mentioned in my other post. If Jeanie Beckett place of birth on the image of the 1901 census is recorded as Scotland could this have any bearing on William Thomas Beckett death not showing?. Once again I'm in your debt
Geraldine

CMcG

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Re: Quinn/Beckett
« Reply #26 on: July 19, 2019, 10:30:50 PM »
It could, but another possibility I haven't ruled out is that he simply upped and left, as opposed to having died in the period concerned, that would explain why a death registration isn't readily jumping out for him, but more importantly, it would also explain why I can't find a marriage for William Adams and Mary.  I'm not saying this is the case, I'm just not ruling anything out for now.


Geraldine1234

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Re: Quinn/Beckett
« Reply #27 on: July 19, 2019, 10:45:39 PM »
I'm doing it again.....getting Maggie a relative in WiltonStreet/Ballywalter and killing off William Thomas Beckett in Scotland. I can't believe how interested I have become in finding out more about the family history. Must be an age thing.

CMcG

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Re: Quinn/Beckett
« Reply #28 on: July 20, 2019, 09:23:38 AM »




My suspicions were justified, the death of Mary Adams mentioned above, who died on 1 August 1941, was registered in Newtownards under the name of 'Mary Beckets' (the name Adams was stroked out), she was recorded as 'married' (not a widow), as the 70 year old wife of William Thomas Beckets a labourer, the informant was her daughter 'W. Sterling' (daughter Winifred Adams married a Laurence Stirling in 1934). Presumably an Adams marriage never happened because of the risk of bigamy.

So regardless of William Thomas senior being described as 'deceased' in the marriage registrations for his children (Lily Bicket to William Thompson in 1911, William Beckett D.C.M. to Agnes Morrow in 1920), the reality must be that Winifred either knew he was still alive or didn't know either way, and therefore played it safe with her mother's death registration.  So I'm guessing that William Thomas senior got offside some time before Martha Beckett's illegitimate birth in 1905, how long before, I don't know.  I'm still none the wiser about Margaret Beckett's birth, it might not even have been registered.  Thank goodness Margaret Neil posted that brief death notice about Lily Thompson in 1962, otherwise her Beckett family lineage may never have been determined.


Geraldine1234

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Re: Quinn/Beckett
« Reply #29 on: July 20, 2019, 09:43:45 AM »
This sounds like a Catherine Cookson novel. So, do you think the Ballywalter or Scotland link has no bearing?
Oh, hit in Imperial Yeomanry and typed W. Quinn. 4 different enteries appeared.
One in particular I thought was interesting for W. Quinn North Irish Horse Company 17th Battalion the service number was either 11138 or 41907
Do you think this is far as we go with Quinn/Beckett.
Many thanks CMcG