Author Topic: Quinn/Beckett  (Read 1585 times)

CMcG

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Re: Quinn/Beckett
« Reply #30 on: July 20, 2019, 10:36:07 AM »

Cutting to the chase, I found the following marriage registered in Newtownards in 1891 for a William Thomas Beckett and Mary Mays:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1891/10674/5890218.pdf


On the Beckett side I'm not optimistic, William Thomas Beckett senior is something of an enigma, for as much as I don't know where he went to after the 1890s, I also don't know where he came from before the 1890s, for his father's details in the above 1891 marriage registration were recorded as 'not ascertained'.  It's difficult to see how any further progress could be made on him.

However, details for Mary Mays father were recorded, he was Andrew Mays, a labourer.  The following 1871 birth registration has to be a possibility for Mary in terms of timing and location, parents recorded as Andrew Maze and Jane Bell:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1871/03315/2215044.pdf

I can see a transcript of a civil registration for a marriage that took place on 23 July 1859 between 25 year old bachelor Andrew Maze, a labourer living at 'Ballycormack Bangor', son of Michael Maze a farmer, and 20 year old spinster Jane Bell of 'Cottown Bangor', daughter of Hugh Bell a farmer, witnessed by Michael Maze and Margaret Tanner.

This is the family in 1901 and 1911:
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Down/Bangor/Cottown/1251722/
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Down/Bangor/Ballycroghan/259975/

Griffiths Valuation shows an Andrew Maise and a Michael Maise jointly on a holding of just over 18 acres in 'Cotton' (local print date 1863).

As well as having Mary in 1871 and the other children you can see in the above census returns, it looks like Andrew Mays and Jane Bell also had a daughter Elizabeth Ellen, note the address and father details for the bride in the following 1883 marriage:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1883/10923/5991136.pdf

I specifically bring this up because of the following 1916 clipping, again about William Beckett junior (ie. of 2nd Royal Irish Rifles, D.C.M. as he was to become), note the reference to the aunt:



So once again, a minor detail joins dots and propels a 'possibility' (ie. for Mary's birth) into something a bit stronger.

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CMcG

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Re: Quinn/Beckett
« Reply #31 on: July 20, 2019, 10:58:21 AM »

On the Quinn side, there is reasonable amount of circumstantial evidence to support what has been posted, but there is no slam dunk or smoking gun.  As I mentioned, for the James Quinn / Margaret Ferris line, as posted, to be the wrong one, there needs to be a second William James Quinn who was an Air Mechanic at that time in that location.  So the balance of probablity for now says that what has been posted is the correct Quinn line.  It would still be worthwhile looking again at the early births for William James Quinn and Margaret Beckett to see if there is any minor detail that might join the dots and strengthen the case, in terms of an address or informant name and qualification. The other thing to add is that once this initial flurry is over, there comes the slow burn, and years down the line someone could post to this topic who is related and has substantial additional family lore and evidence.

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Geraldine1234

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Re: Quinn/Beckett
« Reply #32 on: July 20, 2019, 11:15:58 AM »
Can't thank you enough for your guidance. I am going to visit GRONI to get the addresses registered to the earlier Quinn siblings births. Major Quinn moved to Liverpool in the 50's. I have my cousins address so will contact her to see if she has any information. Daisy married John Faulkner Walker. They lived in Springvale Ballywalter were John worked on Dunleath Estate . They returned to Johns native Dunkineely where the Walker family had farms. Unfortunately I do not know where any of cousins are now. William James served in the RAF. I have some photos. When Walter died in 1944 William wasn't allowed home. The brothers

Geraldine1234

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Re: Quinn/Beckett
« Reply #33 on: July 20, 2019, 11:17:39 AM »
Sorry....my dad and Uncle Billy never spoke about their parents with much affection.
Thanks again CMcG
Geraldine

Geraldine1234

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Re: Quinn/Beckett
« Reply #34 on: July 23, 2019, 10:19:37 PM »
CMcG I visited GRONI today and as you suggested I got some addresses for the earlier births for my dads siblings.  The records show William James Quinn occupation  as a motor driver but the 1924 birth of William James Quinn (junior)  states motor driver R.U.C.  The marriage records of three of the siblings state Father William James Police Constable.
More importantly I think some of the dots may be joined....
.re#3 record 3 regarding address of 33 Townsend Street
Daisy Diana Walker born 23.12 1919 ( my dads sister) father William James Quinn ,
Of 33 Upper Townsend Street, Belfast.
This seems to confirm your findings.
I noticed Margaret Beckett did not have an insertion in the obituaries for Mary Adams .
I was wondering when Margaret Neill (Quinn Beckett) died on 15.9.1967 at 207 Tennent Street were there any other Beckett or Adams  names appearing in her obituaries?
I spoke to my brother and we were trying to remember any other pieces of "family folklore" He remembers our dad mentioning helping out at Dunleath Estate with sister and brother-in-law (Daisy and John) during holidays and about his father William James being in the Boer War.
Geraldine.

CMcG

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Re: Quinn/Beckett
« Reply #35 on: July 24, 2019, 08:46:46 AM »

... More importantly I think some of the dots may be joined....
.re#3 record 3 regarding address of 33 Townsend Street
Daisy Diana Walker born 23.12 1919 ( my dads sister) father William James Quinn ,
Of 33 Upper Townsend Street, Belfast.


Brilliant stuff, exactly what was needed, that contemporary match in address propels the William James Quinn (in the various records mentioned previously, son of James Quinn and Margaret Ferris etc.) from 'balance of probability' to 'beyond reasonable doubt' in my book, here's a small snippet from the relevant record:



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CMcG

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Re: Quinn/Beckett
« Reply #36 on: July 24, 2019, 08:56:21 AM »

... I noticed Margaret Beckett did not have an insertion in the obituaries for Mary Adams .
I was wondering when Margaret Neill (Quinn Beckett) died on 15.9.1967 at 207 Tennent Street were there any other Beckett or Adams  names appearing in her obituaries?


No, only her direct family was mentioned:



But there is so much that is unknown and may remain unknown, Margaret may have been 'off to the side' for want of a better phrase, in terms of the family relationships, she may have been an illegitimate half sister rather than full sister, she could well have been brought up separately, maybe Lily was the one she interacted with most, add in a marriage to William James Quinn with a possible religious connoctation... I'm speculating, I don't know.  Also by 1967, how many of her peers were still alive?
 
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Geraldine1234

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Re: Quinn/Beckett
« Reply #37 on: July 24, 2019, 09:05:27 AM »
I was so excited when I seen the address, I had a smile from ear to ear. Another branch discovered thanks to your expertise. Re: James Quinn and Margaret Ferris Did their marriage take place in Ballygawley Presbyterian and have you details of the church the children were baptised?

CMcG

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Re: Quinn/Beckett
« Reply #38 on: July 24, 2019, 10:30:17 AM »

I'm now thinking that the children of James Quinn and Margaret Ferris were baptised into the Church of Ireland, not the Catholic Church.  In the transcripts I've seen, despite there being links to the NLI Catholic parish registers from the records, when I go looking in the original register for the baptisms, they aren't there, not one baptism can I find for the 10 children I've checked so far.  So I think that the 'RootsIreland' website has simply got the denomination wrong in all of the records and that the children were baptised CoI - a mix of Errigal Kieran (Keerogue) and Aghaloo parishes.

And yes, the marriage took place in the Presbyterian Church:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1865/11583/8262235.pdf

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Geraldine1234

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Re: Quinn/Beckett
« Reply #39 on: July 24, 2019, 11:09:38 AM »
Yes, that is the record I seen.  10 children! I got details for the following:
Sarah  1866
John Watson. 1868
William James 1870
Henry John 1880
Wilson Foster 1879.                 1 sibling missing??
Henry  1881
Alexander 1884
George 1887
David 1889
There seems to be a gap between Wiliam James 1870 and Henry John 1880.
Think I found James Quinn (the father) death
24.12.1896 Lisdoart C. Tyrone


Geraldine1234

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Re: Quinn/Beckett
« Reply #40 on: July 24, 2019, 11:26:38 AM »
Think I found no. 10.  Robert Quinn 29.1.1872

CMcG

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CMcG

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Geraldine1234

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Re: Quinn/Beckett
« Reply #43 on: July 24, 2019, 01:03:10 PM »
I put in his death instead of birth   oops
So are Robert 29.1.1872
            Isaac. 26.1.1874
            Thomas. 24.12.1875
In addition to my list?   :o :o
My goodness they were busy! And the births all seem to be in Lisdoart with the exception of John Watson and William James (Ballygawley) and it looks like Sarah was the only girl.

CMcG

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Re: Quinn/Beckett
« Reply #44 on: July 24, 2019, 10:20:35 PM »
On 18 February 1862, in Ballygawley Presbyterian Meeting House, 22 year old bachelor Alex McDowell, a whitesmith living in Ballygawley, son of William McDowell a whitesmith, married 21 year old spinster Eliza Ferris of Ballygawley, daughter of John Ferris a bailiff, the witnesses were Robert Anderson and Robert Beatty. BTW, an Alexander McDowell was a witness to the marriage of James Quinn and Margaret Ferris in 1865.

Also this one:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1872/11308/8149278.pdf

Griffiths Valuation shows John Ferris living in a house with garden and yard in Meeting House Street, Ballygawley, print date is 1860.

John Ferris' death in 1888 (note the informant):
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1888/06159/4759889.pdf

Looks like John's wife was called Esther, note the informant Margaret Quinn and location:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1896/05898/4673166.pdf

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