Author Topic: Ballycairn Church Records  (Read 512 times)

My Mum Is Irish

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Ballycairn Church Records
« on: August 22, 2019, 10:17:25 AM »
Would like to search records for baptism and marriages held at Ballycairn Presbyterian Church, Ballylesson, Co Down between 1845-1860. PRONI has confirmed they do not hold copies. Has anyone searched the archives at this church and have a contact name or email I can only find a postal address online I am in New Zealand. Thank you

JimG

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Re: Ballycairn Church Records
« Reply #1 on: August 22, 2019, 02:19:16 PM »
Hello again
PRONI guide to church records has
“BALLYCAIRN PRESBYTERIAN CHURCH, CO. DOWN
[see under DRUMBO] “
going to heading Drumbo
“P. Ballycairn Baptisms, 1860-; marriages, 1845-.In local custody”
so these records should exist

suggestions
email Presbyterian historical Society of ireland  asking for name, email etc of current Rector
they are very helpful  also ask the secretary to confirm that  Ballycairn church is keeping those originals , Are they aware of anyone else holding microfilm etc eg a branch of NIFHS  Also ask them 1a below, they may do much more and expect a donation if they do so.

Contact that rector
email is best 
If you use postal address is Ballycairn Presbyterian Church 43 Ballylesson Road Belfast BT8 8JS send a stamped? address return envelope.
 
1a. Ask him has anyone indexed the records for the churches use  and learn from his reaction 
1b  he may already have a system for look ups  find out fees carefully. OR ask him first 1 c.
1c  2. Ask him is there a member of his congregation who could volunteer to help you find your relatives in Drumbo civil parish as you live in New Zealand and have very modest earnings or whatever is the truth

If you ever get to PRONI out of interest
PRONI Reference :   D3670/B/18
Title :   Printed booklet of summer fete and bazaar
Dates :   May 1923-June 1923
Description :   Printed booklet of summer fete and bazaar organized by Ballycairn Presbyterian Church, including advertisements placed by automobile agents such as Harry Ferguson Ltd, W.J. Chambers (Donegall Pass, Belfast), Foster and Reay, 64 Bedford Street, Belfast, W.H. Alexander, May Street, Belfast, and also including details of the organization of the event.
If you ever go the area don’t forget The Giant’s Ring, a neolithic henge monument in state care, is between Edenderry and Ballylesson.
Good luck

Elwyn

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Re: Ballycairn Church Records
« Reply #2 on: August 22, 2019, 05:46:50 PM »
Would like to search records for baptism and marriages held at Ballycairn Presbyterian Church, Ballylesson, Co Down between 1845-1860. PRONI has confirmed they do not hold copies. Has anyone searched the archives at this church and have a contact name or email I can only find a postal address online I am in New Zealand. Thank you

     You’ve specifically asked about baptisms and marriages 1845 to 1860.  I don’t think there are any baptism records for that period. If there ever were any, I suspect they have since been lost.  The baptisms only look to start in 1860.  The marriages from 1845 onwards do exist. However they will be on-line on the GRONI site (and other pay to view sites).  Statutory registration of marriages began in April 1845, so from that year onwards there has been a copy of each marriage held by GRONI as well as by the church.
 
Elwyn

My Mum Is Irish

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Re: Ballycairn Church Records
« Reply #3 on: August 22, 2019, 08:27:30 PM »
Hello again JimG I am still searching for the same records following the leads from our last conversation. I found a death record for Andrew Graham in 1901 that took me on a paper trail back to this location it all fits if only I could find the baptism records to confirm.

Shows daughter Eliza was present at death (1911 census says she was born in Ballymagarrick, is she a sibling to my James Graham?)
he was an ag labourer and found that he remarried at the Ballycairn Church in 1874. My Andrew Graham's first wife was Eliza who died before 1871.
 

I have been in contact with the Presbyterian Historical Society this week. They have done a search for the baptism records for Drumbo with no success same with Carryduff. They have given me the name of the minister for Ballycairn Church with a contact postal address he is not on email, the church is vacant. I have asked for them to check what records are available before I write to him.

Thanks again.


JimG

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Re: Ballycairn Church Records
« Reply #4 on: August 22, 2019, 09:12:37 PM »
Elwyn’s grasp of Family history is unique so birth search might be in vain , and even marriages night only be found by his method.. Try it  You don’t need to register or log in to use the free name search via the green link below. This search will return the number of records that match in each of the registration types which are birth, death or marriage.  I tried https://geni.nidirect.gov.uk for Alexander Graham 1846-1848 marriage 2 results which could be anywhere in NI so that why you need to search very carefully or the bill will mount up If you want to carry out further searches of the records and see the details, you must first register for a GRONI account. Once you've registered, you'll then need to buy credits. You can buy credits when you're logged in. Follow the green link below to login.etcetc
Surorised to find tombstones recorded Ballycairn Presbyterian Church Memorials found on line[/size]
Search https://www.findagrave.com/cemetery/2647339/memorial-search?
3 memorials found
Edgar Dorman
19 Aug 1908 – 1977


Margaretta Greer
unknown – 19 Oct 1952


Robert Fisher Nicholson
unknown – 13 Jan 1945
Keep going

Elwyn

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Re: Ballycairn Church Records
« Reply #5 on: August 23, 2019, 12:26:12 AM »
     I would expect a marriage in Drumbo to be registered in Lisburn. Jim mentions searching for Alexander Graham. Should it not be Andrew? I searched the GRONI indexes for 1845 – 1859 and there were no Alexander Graham  marriages registered in Lisburn. There were 117 Graham marriages with other forenames.
 
One was an Andrew, who married Eliza Doherty on 26.4.1847. It’ll cost you £2.50 to view the actual certificate on the GRONI site but from another site I have access to I can tell you they married in Lisburn Register Office, so it was possibly a mixed marriage. Both were from Drumbo. Andrew was 18 and a weaver, a bachelor and both fathers were named James. Witnesses were John & Ellen Hutchinson.
 
Elwyn

My Mum Is Irish

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Re: Ballycairn Church Records
« Reply #6 on: August 23, 2019, 01:59:13 AM »
Thank you Elwyn. Yes definitely Andrew Graham my 3rd gt grandfather. I have come across the marriage for Andrew and Eliza Doherty previously on Ancestry she was 17.

The reason for my search in and around the Drumbo area is purely based on the marriage record of my 2nd gt grandfather James Graham in Scotland in 1871.... father Andrew Graham a gardener, mother Eliza Dunlop deceased. 1871 and 1881 Scottish census show James Graham was born in Ireland after his marriage and birth of the first few children the family moved to Belfast, he was a boilermaker/rivetter.

Other than that the closest match is a death record for Andrew Graham in Sept 1901, a labourer aged 69, daughter Eliza Weir present Hind Street, Belfast
Eliza Jane Graham married Hugh Weir in Belfast 1880 father Andrew Graham, labourer
1911 census handwritten copy shows she was born in Ballymagarrick which was crossed out and replaced with Co Antrim. 1901 census says she was born in Co.Down.

1901 census record for Andrew Graham (widower) living in Ballylenihan, Breda, Down a superannuated ag labourer 69, wife Ellen 59.
1874 Andrew Graham widower, residence Ballynaleigh? Parish of Knockbreda father James Graham, farmer married Ellen Fisher, Oughley solemnised at Ballycairn, Parish of Drumbo, registered Lisburn

I was hoping to find Eliza's baptism which would give me her mothers name, however a search has been conducted on my behalf through parish records at Drumbo and Carryduff Presbyterian for James (1846-1850) and Eliza (1855-1860) without success.

Have I exhausted all avenues?

Thank you for your help

My Mum Is Irish

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Re: Ballycairn Church Records
« Reply #7 on: August 23, 2019, 02:11:23 AM »
The archives expert who searched Carryduff records for me said...

For a gardener there were 2 large estates in the Breda area south of Belfast, Purdysburn and Belvoir, both now gone. [/font][/size]

Elwyn

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Re: Ballycairn Church Records
« Reply #8 on: August 23, 2019, 06:38:55 AM »
     I can’t find the first marriage either. If Andrew was 69 when he died, he was born c 1831, and so his first marriage ought to be have been after 1845. It doesn’t appear to have been in Northern Ireland anyway. Obviously if Eliza died before 1864 in Ireland, there will be no death certificate to find.
 
Regarding Ballycairn as the possible church for Andrew’s first marriage, tradition was to marry in the bride’s church (after which she’d attend her husband’s) so Ballycairn may have been his 2nd wife’s family church but not necessarily Andrew’s. Nor may it have been where his first marriage took place.
 
Belvoir and Purdysburn both still exist but they are no longer private estates. They have both been hospitals for the past 100 years or so.
 
I notice that the 1901 census Andrew was a superannuated ag labourer. That’s quite unusual. The state pension didn’t start till 1909. Prior to that the only people who routinely paid pensions were the police and military. Few ordinary employers paid one, especially to a labourer. I wonder if that Andrew had been in the police or military, earlier in his life? Just a thought.
 
Elwyn

My Mum Is Irish

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Re: Ballycairn Church Records
« Reply #9 on: August 23, 2019, 09:34:12 AM »
Andrew's second wife Ellen was living in Oughley, Saintfield, Co Down at the time she got married in 1874. This same location was recorded when she died in 1911.

I have no way of confirming this is my Andrew Graham as I have no more information other than what I have detailed, I simply have one document that says he was a gardener in 1871. Think I have hit the infamous brick wall for Andrew, Eliza Dunlop and James. Any suggestions on where to look next for Eliza Jane Graham if she was born in Ballymagarrick, Down 1855-1860 Ballycairn Church is out if there are no baptism records before 1860?

The information you have shared with me is invaluable, thank you.

Nick Keene

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Re: Ballycairn Church Records
« Reply #10 on: August 26, 2019, 09:40:45 PM »
Sorry I cannot be of much help, but I do know that both Graham and Dorman families still life in the Drumbo area, maybe Facebook links could be another avenue for your search. Those who live in and around Drumbo, included the families mentioned here better associate with the city of Lisburn, as opposed to Belfast. I went to school with Grahams and Dormans, circa 1970's.

My Mum Is Irish

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Re: Ballycairn Church Records
« Reply #11 on: August 27, 2019, 03:27:47 AM »
They could be extended family still in the Drumbo area but still to confirm they lived there at all. No doubt there would be siblings for my 2nd and 3rd gt grandparents that remain a mystery. From 1890 my Grahams are documented living in Belfast. Thanks for your interest.

Elwyn

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Re: Ballycairn Church Records
« Reply #12 on: August 27, 2019, 10:22:42 PM »
Any suggestions on where to look next for Eliza Jane Graham if she was born in Ballymagarrick, Down 1855-1860 Ballycairn Church is out if there are no baptism records before 1860?


     If she was Presbyterian and attended Ballycairn Presbyterian church and was born before their records begin then there won't be any record of her birth. No other duplicate records were held.
 
Elwyn

Nick Keene

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Re: Ballycairn Church Records
« Reply #13 on: August 28, 2019, 02:41:02 AM »

They all come under Belfast as a postal area. Drumbo, Ballycairn, Lisburn all have a Belfast postal prefix, i.e. BT**

They could be extended family still in the Drumbo area but still to confirm they lived there at all. No doubt there would be siblings for my 2nd and 3rd gt grandparents that remain a mystery. From 1890 my Grahams are documented living in Belfast. Thanks for your interest.