Author Topic: looking for information on Mary Ann Parsons born 14 April 1881.  (Read 337 times)

wb54

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looking for information on Mary Ann Parsons born 14 April 1881.
« on: October 08, 2019, 08:53:29 PM »
Hi everyone,

               Looking for any thing about Mary Ann Parsons born 14 April 1881 in Bangor.
               Have got her birth on Irish Genealogy, but nothing after that.

              She was born to Samuel & Margaret Parsons, did find another birth in Bangor
              of Mary Jane 24 October 1889.  If Mary Ann was stillborn would there be any
              record?   

              Also in the 1911 census, Samuel has but down 8 children born alive, 7 living.
              There was another death, Elizabeth Ann age 5 months, 1893.

              Many thanks for any in put,

                                               Billy.

CMcG

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Re: looking for information on Mary Ann Parsons born 14 April 1881.
« Reply #1 on: October 08, 2019, 11:54:15 PM »
Have you ever found a birth registration for the daughter who went on to marry Thomas Whiteside?  That is, the one  variously named Ellie/Ella/Ellen and who was described in the 1901 and 1911 censuses as being born in Bangor c.1882 or Belfast c.1883?  If not, you can see where I'm going with this.
 
If there are any images posted above that are important to you, take your own copy - I cannot guarantee they will appear indefinitely.

Elwyn

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Re: looking for information on Mary Ann Parsons born 14 April 1881.
« Reply #2 on: October 09, 2019, 12:02:29 AM »
     Stillbirths werenít registered in 1881. If Mary Annís birth was registered then you can take it she was born alive.
 
Elwyn

wb54

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Re: looking for information on Mary Ann Parsons born 14 April 1881.
« Reply #3 on: October 09, 2019, 08:58:02 PM »
Hi CMcG ,Elwyn.
                        Many thanks for your help, going by Irish Genealogy, Iam sure Mary Ann was born alive
                         also with the other daughter called Mary Jane  makes me think there was a early death.

                          Will try a search for her death or something.  Many thanks for your help.
                           Best regards,      Billy.

CMcG

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Re: looking for information on Mary Ann Parsons born 14 April 1881.
« Reply #4 on: October 09, 2019, 11:25:58 PM »
Did you find a birth registration for Ellie/Ella/Ellen?

If there are any images posted above that are important to you, take your own copy - I cannot guarantee they will appear indefinitely.

wb54

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Re: looking for information on Mary Ann Parsons born 14 April 1881.
« Reply #5 on: October 10, 2019, 05:58:39 PM »
Hi CMcG,

              Sorry to say I canít find anything for Ellen, only the marriage
              she died in 1929.  Found bits more of her live.
                Best regards,  Billy.
             

wb54

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Re: looking for information on Mary Ann Parsons born 14 April 1881.
« Reply #6 on: October 13, 2019, 05:58:18 PM »
Hi CMcG,

             Thanks for your message canít find any birth on Ellen.
             Did have a good look at dates and ages between both girls
             Makes me think if they are the same person.
              But why change names, or twins?

              I do know there was two sets of twins later on.
               Best regards,    Billy.
             

CMcG

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Re: looking for information on Mary Ann Parsons born 14 April 1881.
« Reply #7 on: October 14, 2019, 10:21:21 AM »
This is a bit of a yarn, but yes, when I previously said 'you can see where I'm going with this', that is exactly what I meant, ie. that this may have been one and the same person.  It would certainly make the arithmetic work regarding 'children born' and 'children living' in the 1911 census. The contra argument is that both the death of Mary Ann and the birth of Ellie/Ella/Ellen went unregistered or were wrongly indexed or something like that - but that scenario doesn't fit the 1911 census arithmetic.

I wouldn't want to overstate the likelihood of this being one and the same person, but there again, until you can rule it out to the contrary (by finding a death for Mary Ann and/or a birth for Ellie/Ella/Ellen), it would have to remain on the books as a possibility. 

What I'm describing here definitely isn't common, in my experience, I've only encountered a few (maybe a dozen, I haven't been counting) instances.  However, one of the first instances involved a member of my own family, which is why I have subsequently kept an eye out for this phenomenon.  In short, my grand uncle lived the first 60 odd years of his life as Joseph, blissfully unaware of any problem with that name, until he applied for the old age pension in the 1960s, when the authorities struggled to reconcile a birth registration for him. It then transpired that he was actually registered as Samuel, whereafter his parents must have had a change of mind, for he was subsequently baptised Joseph.  To support his pension application, his older brother and an old family friend had to attend the Registrar's Office in the 1960s to make a statutory declaration that Joseph and Samuel were indeed one and the same person and his birth registration written 60 odd years previously was annotated to that effect.

After that case, I happened upon several more over the years, the usual giveaway being an annotation to the birth registration to indicate the alternative forename.  In some of the cases, the forename differed to both the original birth registration forename and the baptismal record forename.

In this case, since Ellie/Ella/Ellen died in 1929, she was too young to have triggered any identity issue associated with a pension application.  I couldn't see a baptismal record online for the forename Mary Ann or Ellie/Ella/Ellen, but there's no guarantee that this would prove anything conclusively either.

So not a common occurrence by any stretch, but equally it can't really be ruled out for now.

If there are any images posted above that are important to you, take your own copy - I cannot guarantee they will appear indefinitely.

wb54

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Re: looking for information on Mary Ann Parsons born 14 April 1881.
« Reply #8 on: October 14, 2019, 05:48:13 PM »
Hi CMcG,
                Thatís some story, when you think what we have just at a touch of a button.
                 When you paid taxes and stuff all you life, then to be told something like that.
                  Glad it was sorted out in the end.

                 I agree with what you have said, till I can find more information on Mary.
                 Will keep both names as different people.
                 She was called after her Grandmother who died in 1891.

                Again many thanks for your help and time.     Best regards.

                         Billy.