Author Topic: Fyfe/Fyffe/Fife Questions.  (Read 213 times)

80sChild

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Fyfe/Fyffe/Fife Questions.
« on: October 28, 2019, 12:50:27 AM »
First and foremost thank you so much for all the amazing help you kind folk bring to this forum. The answers to my last question opened up a wealth of information for me  :-* [/font]

I have reached my first official ‘Brick wall’ and this one is made from heavy duty Accrington brick.

Facts: George (Montgomery) Gibson married ‘Ellen Fyfe’ - 2nd February 1920.

Facts: I know ‘Ellen’ to be called EILEEN. (Her Daughter and GrandDaughter were named Eileen in her honour)

The Fyffe family (and all its spellings) are the puzzle, but ‘Annie’ who I believe to be Eileen’s (Ellen) Mummy is my brick wall.

On ‘Ellen’(Eileen) Fyfe’s marriage certificate it states:
Address: 8 Fife Street
Father: John Fyfe (labourer)

Census 1911 - ‘Ieleen’ Fife living at 3 Fife, and she is the niece of the head of house - Jane Ellis.
There is also an ‘Annie Fife’ living there who is Jane Ellis’s Sister. She is who I believe to be Eileen’s (Ellen/Ieleen) Mummy.

I don’t want to confuse things so here are links to the 1901 and 1911 census.

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Antrim/Duncairn_Ward__Belfast/Fife_Street/932544/

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Antrim/Duncairn_Ward/Fife/132438/

I followed the information from both the 1901 census and the 1911 census, and came up with this:

Birth Certificate: Eileen Fife - 4th February 1901 - 5 Carnforth Street - Jane Ellis present at birth. No Father.

I looked up Carnforth Street on both the census and Lennon Wylie, and there was nothing of the Fyfe/Fife/Ellis name.

I started to research the other members of the family in the census.

I presumed that Mary Ann Fife/Fyfe was ‘Eileen’s’ Granny, and Annie’s Mummy.

I found a few Mary Ann Fyfe/Fife/Fyffes through various websites, newspapers, the usual places.

I followed a lead from the Belfast Telegraph obituaries for It stated Mary Ann Fyfe - 8 Fife Street who died in 1914, late husband was John Fyfe, and he was formerly from Cookstown.

I found Mary Taylor married John Fyffe in Cookstown. 5 Oct 1853 - Derryloran Cookstown.

I think I found their children.

Johnston Fyfe - 26 Jan 1860
Jane Fyfe - 2 Mar 1865 (Jane Ellis?)
Anna Fyfe - 8 Apr 1867 (Annie Fife/Fyfe?)
Alfred Fyfe - 17 Jul 1869

The 4 children above were with the spelling ‘Fyfe’ and were all to the same parents.  The 4 children below are spelled differently but the details of the parents are the same.

James Fyffe - 7 Jul 1854
John Taylor Fyffe - 15 Sep 1856
Alfred Fyffe - 31 Oct 1858
John Walter Fife - 2 May 1862

I found all this through the Derryloran Parish Church website, which is fantastic. Those wonderful people have provided us with so much information.

In the Belfast Telegraph there was an obituary for Alfred Fyfe, he died on 27 Apr 1898 aged 27.  It stated that he was the sixth Son of the late John Fyfe of Cookstown, and I found 6 son of John and Mary Fyfe in the parish registers.

I know this Alfred Fyfe to be fact, as he is buried along side people I know to be correct.

I feel as if I’m being overbearing with information! So I’ll cut to the chase.

I know through other facts, that Annie Fyffe (Eileen’s Mother) lived at 108 Templemore Avenue in 1949.

In her Belfast Telegraph obituary (5 Jan 1945) it states that Annie Fyffe 108, Templemore Avenue was the wife of the late John Fyffe! (Eh, I thought she was an unmarried Mother, and her maiden name was Fyffe, and her Father was John Fyffe.

There is also a notice from a son Douglas Boyd, Daughter-in-law Eileen Boyd, and GrandDaughter Anna.

I am so confused. I can find no record of Douglas Boyd, and him being the child of Annie Fyffe (and all her spellings)

I can not find any kind of marriage record for Annie Fyffe? Why was it noted in the Telegraph that she was the Wife of the late John Fyffe, when she was apparently never married, and her Father was called John Fyffe! Is it a misinformation from the newspaper? Would they say Wife instead of Daughter.[/font]

Why can't I find any record of her apparent Son Douglas Boyd? I know the ages on all the documents are a tad suss (they either lied a lot, or they just guessed an age!) but Annie Fyffe (Anna) was apparently born in 1867, so she was 78 at her time of death.  Douglas must have been born around 1912 at the latest, unless she was an older Mummy in her later 40s/50s? 

Could she have adopted him? Could she have had him and had him adopted, then he got back in contact? I doubt that last one, as  the records I have state that she already had and brought up a child (Eileen) while being unmarried.

I can not find any record of John Fyfe (the Father, Mary’s Husband) apart from his marriage. I can not find his burial details, birth details…..Argh, I’m starting to do my head in…..by just thinking haha.

I’m sorry for rambling. I tried to give as much information as possible without being confusing, and I bet I’ve ended up being confusing!

If you read all this - THANK YOU! At least I’ve put my confused thoughts on paper per se.
I would like more information on John Fyfe, Annie Fyfe, Douglas Boyd. Any help greatly appreciated :)


80sChild

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Re: Fyfe/Fyffe/Fife Questions.
« Reply #1 on: October 28, 2019, 01:47:37 AM »
I found a John Fyfe death certificate.  He must have died before his son Alfred, so that's before 1898.

John Fyfe died 22 Jun 1895 - 19 Ritchie Street

Married

63

Book Canvasser

Bronchitis

Daughter-in-law present - Mary A Fyfe - 28 Collyer Street.

I checked Lennon Wylie, 1890 and there is a:

John Fyfe/Book canvasser/ 3 Cosgrave Street

and

John Fyfe/Labourer/11 Cosgrave Street <-------His Son?

I have yet to find a suitable burial.


CMcG

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Re: Fyfe/Fyffe/Fife Questions.
« Reply #2 on: October 30, 2019, 11:08:15 AM »

... There is also a notice from a son Douglas Boyd, Daughter-in-law Eileen Boyd, and GrandDaughter Anna.

I am so confused. I can find no record of Douglas Boyd, and him being the child of Annie Fyffe (and all her spellings)

I can not find any kind of marriage record for Annie Fyffe? Why was it noted in the Telegraph that she was the Wife of the late John Fyffe, when she was apparently never married, and her Father was called John Fyffe! Is it a misinformation from the newspaper? Would they say Wife instead of Daughter.

Why can't I find any record of her apparent Son Douglas Boyd? I know the ages on all the documents are a tad suss (they either lied a lot, or they just guessed an age!) but Annie Fyffe (Anna) was apparently born in 1867, so she was 78 at her time of death.  Douglas must have been born around 1912 at the latest, unless she was an older Mummy in her later 40s/50s? 

Could she have adopted him? Could she have had him and had him adopted, then he got back in contact? I doubt that last one, as  the records I have state that she already had and brought up a child (Eileen) while being unmarried.


Not sure what the connection is, for now I'm guessing an informal adoption, what I do know is that:

- when Douglas Haig Boyd married Eileen Crooks in 1940, he left his fathers details blank;
- his age at the time of marriage places birth c. 1918;
- the electoral registers 2003-2010 show a Douglas Haig Boyd born c. 1945-47 living in the Newtownards area.

The closest hit I could find for a c. 1918 birth with those distinctive forenames (maybe a nod to Earl Haig?) is the following one:

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1917/01298/1537270.pdf

However, I cannot yet find a likely marriage for John Boyd and Isabella Anderson.   

1960 death notices for Billy, the son of George and Eileen Gibson, include one from 'his sorrowing Uncle and Aunt, Douglas and Eileen Boyd; also Anna and Douglas, 66 Chadolly Street'.  I would guess that the second Douglas mentioned is a son and might be the person mentioned above as living in Newtownards?

If there are any images posted above that are important to you, take your own copy - I cannot guarantee they will appear indefinitely.

80sChild

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Re: Fyfe/Fyffe/Fife Questions.
« Reply #3 on: October 30, 2019, 06:40:54 PM »
CMcG, thank you so much for firstly reading my essay, and then taking the time to help me. You’re a superstar  :-*

Wow another Father’s name blank on a certificate. Oh how my family loved a good ole game of ‘find the Father’

If that was Annie Fyfe’s biological Son then she would have been 51 when she gave birth. Highly unlikely eh. Saying that the family is notorious for giving the wrong age details!

If the birth certificate for the Douglas Haig Boyd is the same Douglas Haig Boyd in the marriage certificate, then why leave the Father’s name blank, when it clearly states the Father’s details?  Why is he saying he is Annie’s Son and William’s Uncle?  I’m typing my thoughts, I have so many questions haha!  Of Course I don’t expect you to answer!

Yes, the Douglas Haig Boyd from Newtownards does seem to be the Douglas Haig Boyd who married Eileen Crooks Son.   I did find a death notice from a Crooks Family from Chadolly Street for William Stanley Gibson (Annie’s Grandson), so there is a definite connection to a Crooks family.

As for Earl Haig, I knew someone who used to live in Earl Haig Park!  That’s as far as my knowledge goes in regard to him!

It’s all so very Agatha Christie on this side of my family. The other side is an open book so far, thank goodness.  It’s just sad and disappointing that bits of the tree are going to be blank.

I’m hoping one day, my DNA list will maybe shred light on the blanks.

I’m off now to do some more digging.  I will of course report back here with my findings/musings.

Thank you so much once again for being a wonderful investigator  :-*

80sChild

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Re: Fyfe/Fyffe/Fife Questions.
« Reply #4 on: October 30, 2019, 07:14:56 PM »
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Is this the same marriage license you found CMcG?