Author Topic: Press ganged  (Read 517 times)

RBR60

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Press ganged
« on: November 26, 2019, 05:27:31 PM »
Were people ever press ganged at Belfast docks ?

Bread Basket

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Re: Press ganged
« Reply #1 on: November 26, 2019, 07:24:08 PM »
Were people ever press ganged at Belfast docks ?

People were Press Ganged at EVERY Dock in the world. Hairs could be split in using the term Press Ganged as in its early day it was more a reference to Royal Navy Sailors and Merchant Seamen. However it is very clear that Dock Workers were treated appallingly by employers. Dock workers did not just include those who loaded and unloaded cargo, it also included Carters, Boilermakers, Shipyard Workers and many other trades revolving around the Docks.
Iím at present reading a book, The Irishman, which mainly talks about corruption in the 30ís to the 80ís in America, some of which centered around Dock and Transport workers and Unions. Getting back to Belfast Docks, the best thing to happen for Dock Workers Rights was when James Larkin rose above the parapet. You may differ in your opinion BUT Larkin and his followers gave the Dockers a fighting chance and the right to withdraw their labour when they were treated unfairly or different to others.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1907_Belfast_Dock_strike

Just my opinion by the way 🧐👍🏼

CMcG

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Re: Press ganged
« Reply #2 on: November 26, 2019, 10:44:28 PM »






If there are any images posted above that are important to you, take your own copy - I cannot guarantee they will appear indefinitely.

gray_marian

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Re: Press ganged
« Reply #3 on: November 26, 2019, 10:48:59 PM »
People were Press Ganged at EVERY Dock in the world. Hairs could be split in using the term Press Ganged as in its early day it was more a reference to Royal Navy Sailors and Merchant Seamen. However it is very clear that Dock Workers were treated appallingly by employers. Dock workers did not just include those who loaded and unloaded cargo, it also included Carters, Boilermakers, Shipyard Workers and many other trades revolving around the Docks.
Iím at present reading a book, The Irishman, which mainly talks about corruption in the 30ís to the 80ís in America, some of which centered around Dock and Transport workers and Unions. Getting back to Belfast Docks, the best thing to happen for Dock Workers Rights was when James Larkin rose above the parapet. You may differ in your opinion BUT Larkin and his followers gave the Dockers a fighting chance and the right to withdraw their labour when they were treated unfairly or different to others.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1907_Belfast_Dock_strike

Just my opinion by the way 🧐👍🏼

 Thank you for the link Bread Basket, most informative. M

city hall

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Re: Press ganged
« Reply #4 on: November 27, 2019, 12:04:32 AM »
Hi Bread Basket, I know you have a close association with Sailortown and its people, so I thought you might be interested to know that James Joseph Walls emigrated from Sailortown to New York in 1930, aged 12,travelled on his own, and is still alive,aged over 100.He was a Longshoreman (Docker) all his working life. I have a photo somewhere of him wearing Nuala McAllister's chain of office in New York when she was Mayor of Belfast a couple of years ago. Oh the stories he could tell.

Paul.

Spudz

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Re: Press ganged
« Reply #5 on: November 27, 2019, 01:43:50 AM »


Hi Bread Basket, I know you have a close association with Sailortown and its people, so I thought you might be interested to know that James Joseph Walls emigrated from Sailortown to New York in 1930, aged 12,travelled on his own, and is still alive,aged over 100.He was a Longshoreman (Docker) all his working life. I have a photo somewhere of him wearing Nuala McAllister's chain of office in New York when she was Mayor of Belfast a couple of years ago. Oh the stories he could tell.

Paul.

There were quite a few Walls lived in Sailortown according to the 1911 census, they lived in Corporation. Earl, Nelson, Pilot, Henry Street and Edward Street

gray_marian

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Re: Press ganged
« Reply #6 on: November 27, 2019, 08:35:50 AM »
Hi Bread Basket, I know you have a close association with Sailortown and its people, so I thought you might be interested to know that James Joseph Walls emigrated from Sailortown to New York in 1930, aged 12,travelled on his own, and is still alive,aged over 100.He was a Longshoreman (Docker) all his working life. I have a photo somewhere of him wearing Nuala McAllister's chain of office in New York when she was Mayor of Belfast a couple of years ago. Oh the stories he could tell.

Paul.

Good for him, would Mr Walls ever consider sharing a few, I sincerely hope so, social history at it's very best.

Bread Basket

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Re: Press ganged
« Reply #7 on: November 27, 2019, 09:36:41 AM »
Iím on holiday in Portugal at the moment but will get stuck into a bit of research when I get back in a few days. My Motherís Aunt married a John Walls ( his 2nd marriage after his 1st wife died). John had his own business at Belfast Dock as a Steveadore. Pictured below at a family wedding in the 50ís.
JJ Walls aged 12 very well may have been a Son by his 1st marriage.  🤔🤔


Bread Basket

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Re: Press ganged
« Reply #8 on: November 27, 2019, 09:50:06 AM »
Just had a quick check.... my Great Aunt married John in 1928 so the 12 year old JJ May fit the bill 👍🏼

Bread Basket

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Re: Press ganged
« Reply #9 on: November 27, 2019, 11:09:59 AM »
Steveadore  >:D  obviously the Belfast way of spelling it

Stevedore.... the correct spelling of it 😄😄

gray_marian

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Re: Press ganged
« Reply #10 on: November 27, 2019, 04:21:18 PM »
Iím on holiday in Portugal at the moment but will get stuck into a bit of research when I get back in a few days. My Motherís Aunt married a John Walls ( his 2nd marriage after his 1st wife died). John had his own business at Belfast Dock as a Steveadore. Pictured below at a family wedding in the 50ís.
JJ Walls aged 12 very well may have been a Son by his 1st marriage.  🤔🤔



That would be tremendous, great photograph thank you Bread Basket. Does a ''Wharfie'' in Australia mean the same as a Steveadore? I had a gt,uncle there who immigrated in the 1900's. A Fisherman previously in the Mull of Kintyre, hard worker all his days, strong hands too.

PS Feel free to answer on your return home! LoL

Bread Basket

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Re: Press ganged
« Reply #11 on: November 27, 2019, 06:12:19 PM »
That would be tremendous, great photograph thank you Bread Basket. Does a ''Wharfie'' in Australia mean the same as a Steveadore? I had a gt,uncle there who immigrated in the 1900's. A Fisherman previously in the Mull of Kintyre, hard worker all his days, strong hands too.

PS Feel free to answer on your return home! LoL
I never heard of the term Wharfie.  however as you probably know a wharf is a dockside where cargo is loaded and unloaded so people who work there are Dockers.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stevedore

Bread Basket

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Re: Press ganged
« Reply #12 on: November 27, 2019, 06:28:42 PM »
Synonyms for "stevedore" include: "docker", "dock laborer", "wharfie", '"wharf rat", "lumper", and/or "longshoreman".[/font][/size]

Australia[size=initial]Edit[/color][/size]In Australia, the informal term "wharfie" (from wharf labourer) and the formal "waterside worker", include the variety of occupations covered in other countries by words like stevedore. The term "stevedore" is also sometimes used, as in the company name Patrick Stevedores[/color]. The term "docker" is also sometimes used, however in Australia this usually refers to a harbor pilot[/color].[/size][/color]
The Maritime Union of Australia has coverage of these workers, and fought a substantial industrial battle in the 1998 Australian waterfront dispute[/color] to prevent the contracting out[/color] of work to non-union workers[/color].[/color]
In 1943 stevedores in Melbourne and Sydney were deliberately exposed to mustard gas while unloading the ship Idomeneus[/i]. The result was death and permanent disabilityóall as a result of military secrecy.[size=0.75em][13][/font][/size][/font][/size][/color]New Zealand[size=initial]Edit[/color]

[/size]

gray_marian

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Re: Press ganged
« Reply #13 on: November 29, 2019, 02:04:32 AM »
Synonyms for "stevedore" include: "docker", "dock laborer", "wharfie", '"wharf rat", "lumper", and/or "longshoreman".

In Australia, the informal term "wharfie" (from wharf labourer) and the formal "waterside worker", include the variety of occupations covered in other countries by words like stevedore. The term "stevedore" is also sometimes used, as in the company name Patrick Stevedores The term "docker" is also sometimes used, however in Australia this usually refers to a harbor pilot
The Maritime Union of Australia has coverage of these workers, and fought a substantial industrial battle in the 1998 Australian waterfront dispute to prevent the contracting out of work to non-union workers
In 1943 stevedores in Melbourne and Sydney were deliberately exposed to mustard gas while unloading the ship Idomeneus. The result was death and permanent disabilityóall as a result of military secrecy. New Zealand


Many thanks for your trouble Bread Basket, 'tis obviously the Australian term.

JohnKelly

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Re: Press ganged
« Reply #14 on: November 29, 2019, 06:49:11 AM »
Synonyms for "stevedore" include: "docker", "dock laborer", "wharfie", '"wharf rat", "lumper", and/or "longshoreman".[/font][/size]

Australia[size=initial]Edit[/color][/size]In Australia, the informal term "wharfie" (from wharf labourer) and the formal "waterside worker", include the variety of occupations covered in other countries by words like stevedore. The term "stevedore" is also sometimes used, as in the company name Patrick Stevedores[/color]. The term "docker" is also sometimes used, however in Australia this usually refers to a harbor pilot[/color].[/size][/color]
The Maritime Union of Australia has coverage of these workers, and fought a substantial industrial battle in the 1998 Australian waterfront dispute[/color] to prevent the contracting out[/color] of work to non-union workers[/color].[/color]
In 1943 stevedores in Melbourne and Sydney were deliberately exposed to mustard gas while unloading the ship Idomeneus. The result was death and permanent disabilityóall as a result of military secrecy.[size=0.75em][13][/font][/size][/font][/size][/color]New Zealand[size=initial]Edit[/color]

[/size]

G'day Bread Basket, further to your above quoted post, I'm not sure what the current situation is but I recall the days of the Painter and Dockers which were a very militant union and were always in the headlines along with the Warfies.

My understanding was that vacancies in these jobs were handed down from father to son and there was no way an outsider could get a look in.

Cheers.