Author Topic: McKillers Court / McKellors Court  (Read 1016 times)

Spudz

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McKillers Court / McKellors Court
« on: January 10, 2020, 02:08:04 AM »

McKellors Court previously known McKillers Court was off Nelson Street, Belfast.
Lennon Wylie lists that it comprised of 8 small houses but does not list where in Nelson Street it was.
Would anyone have information as to where exactly it was on Nelson Street and who the occupants were particularly between 1890 and 1900
Spudz

CMcG

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Re: McKillers Court / McKellors Court
« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2020, 07:45:35 AM »
The 1880 Belfast street directory entry for Nelson Street on the Lennon Wylie website lists a 'McKillen's Court' intersecting with it, between nos. 137 and 139.  I'm going to guess that that is it...

137. Black, James, rigger
...McKillen's Court intersects. ..
139. Jamison, Jas., pawn broker

http://www.lennonwylie.co.uk/ncomplete1880.htm

If there are any images posted above that are important to you, take your own copy - I cannot guarantee they will appear indefinitely.

Spudz

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Re: McKillers Court / McKellors Court
« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2020, 10:39:50 AM »

Thanks CMcG for your prompt reply, really appreciate your input.
Would there be any way of finding out the inhabitants of the houses 1890 - 1900.
Spudz

CMcG

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Re: McKillers Court / McKellors Court
« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2020, 04:05:19 PM »
As you may know, a lot of the Belfast alleys and courts weren't shown on maps of that era, rather they were hidden within a block of property.  Likewise their occupants weren't individually listed in street directories because their rent was below a certain amount and the directory entry would simply say something like 'A number of small houses'  - Mary Lennon on the Lennon Wylie website referred to them sympathetically as the 'little people'.

On the basis of the available information, I'm optimistic that my red 'X' reflects, on the following 1901-1902 map, where the entry on Nelson Street to the Court was, the unnamed street above it where I've drawn a red line is, I think, Ann Street North:



If there are any images posted above that are important to you, take your own copy - I cannot guarantee they will appear indefinitely.

CMcG

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Re: McKillers Court / McKellors Court
« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2020, 04:25:45 PM »

Would there be any way of finding out the inhabitants of the houses 1890 - 1900.


I think you will struggle, over the past few hours (besides the PRONI / Lennon-Wylie street directories)  I've looked at the likes of PRONI Revaluation Books and newspaper references, but no joy, maybe others might have more success... another approach would be if you could provide details of the person you are researching...?   

If there are any images posted above that are important to you, take your own copy - I cannot guarantee they will appear indefinitely.

Bread Basket

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Re: McKillers Court / McKellors Court
« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2020, 04:48:42 PM »



Canít help you the residents but the above pic will give you an idea of the area. Obviously this pic in probably from 50ís / 60ís but Nelson St was one of those streets that didnít tend to alter much.

Looking at the pic, the direction in which it was taken would have been , Great Patrick to the back of the camera looking towards Whitla St.

There are a few clues in the pic to help you pinpoint where Mc Killenís court actually as.
Looking down the right hand side of the street, in the distance you will see the roof of 2 tall houses, This is the junction of Dock St and Nelson. Back tracking on the same side of the street you will see a parked lorry and a car... the lorry belonged to a local family named Thompson.
If you zoom in on the right hand side you will see a series of lollipop style street signs which were at the corners of all the streets.
So, still backtracking you will see the next signpost which is North Thomas St, the next being Earl St, next North Ann St
Next is Trafalgar St

If you then look closely at the roof lines between Trafalgar St & North Ann St you will see a definitive break in the terraced housing. That was McKillenís Court. The pic shows that it was closed over by the use of as RSJ and steel doors, probably used as a lock up yard.

Hope this helps .

I realise that it would have been easier if I had described it from the lady at the front door but wanted to give you a fuller confirmation of the area.
👍🏼

Bread Basket

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Re: McKillers Court / McKellors Court
« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2020, 05:00:53 PM »
As you may know, a lot of the Belfast alleys and courts weren't shown on maps of that era, rather they were hidden within a block of property.  Likewise their occupants weren't individually listed in street directories because their rent was below a certain amount and the directory entry would simply say something like 'A number of small houses'  - Mary Lennon on the Lennon Wylie website referred to them sympathetically as the 'little people'.

On the basis of the available information, I'm optimistic that my red 'X' reflects, on the following 1901-1902 map, where the entry on Nelson Street to the Court was, the unnamed street above it where I've drawn a red line is, I think, Ann Street North:



CMcG.  you are right on the mark with the red x 👍🏼

CMcG

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Re: McKillers Court / McKellors Court
« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2020, 05:13:14 PM »


Canít help you the residents but the above pic will give you an idea of the area. Obviously this pic in probably from 50ís / 60ís but Nelson St was one of those streets that didnít tend to alter much.

Looking at the pic, the direction in which it was taken would have been , Great Patrick to the back of the camera looking towards Whitla St.

There are a few clues in the pic to help you pinpoint where Mc Killenís court actually as.
Looking down the right hand side of the street, in the distance you will see the roof of 2 tall houses, This is the junction of Dock St and Nelson. Back tracking on the same side of the street you will see a parked lorry and a car... the lorry belonged to a local family named Thompson.
If you zoom in on the right hand side you will see a series of lollipop style street signs which were at the corners of all the streets.
So, still backtracking you will see the next signpost which is North Thomas St, the next being Earl St, next North Ann St
Next is Trafalgar St

If you then look closely at the roof lines between Trafalgar St & North Ann St you will see a definitive break in the terraced housing. That was McKillenís Court. The pic shows that it was closed over by the use of as RSJ and steel doors, probably used as a lock up yard.

Hope this helps .

I realise that it would have been easier if I had described it from the lady at the front door but wanted to give you a fuller confirmation of the area.
👍🏼

Brilliant photo!

I'm pursuing a possible link for this address to the Hendron Brothers, does that ring a bell?

If there are any images posted above that are important to you, take your own copy - I cannot guarantee they will appear indefinitely.

Bread Basket

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Re: McKillers Court / McKellors Court
« Reply #8 on: January 10, 2020, 07:02:20 PM »
Brilliant photo!

I'm pursuing a possible link for this address to the Hendron Brothers, does that ring a bell?

Just back from my daughterís and not had time to look for Hendron Brothers but somewhere in the back of my mind a bell rings... was it a Haulage / Carters or maybe Scrap Dealer?

CMcG

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Re: McKillers Court / McKellors Court
« Reply #9 on: January 10, 2020, 08:51:11 PM »
Hi Bread Basket, the 1951 and 1960 street directory listings for Nelson Street on the Lennon Wylie website are showing them in the immediate vicinity...

1951: 139-141. Hendron Bros. (Belfast), Ltd., yard
1960: 139-141. Hendron Bros. (Belfast), Ltd., yard

Previous posts to the forum suggest that they were into metal scrap, boilers, hiring out cranes and the likes, also, they apparently had premises in Eliza Street.

I'm wondering if McKiller's Court at Nelson Street became incorporated into one of their yards, it certainly looks to be in the right area in this later map extract:



What do you think?

If there are any images posted above that are important to you, take your own copy - I cannot guarantee they will appear indefinitely.

Bread Basket

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Re: McKillers Court / McKellors Court
« Reply #10 on: January 10, 2020, 09:56:52 PM »
Hi Bread Basket, the 1951 and 1960 street directory listings for Nelson Street on the Lennon Wylie website are showing them in the immediate vicinity...

1951: 139-141. Hendron Bros. (Belfast), Ltd., yard
1960: 139-141. Hendron Bros. (Belfast), Ltd., yard

Previous posts to the forum suggest that they were into metal scrap, boilers, hiring out cranes and the likes, also, they apparently had premises in Eliza Street.

I'm wondering if McKiller's Court at Nelson Street became incorporated into one of their yards, it certainly looks to be in the right area in this later map extract:



What do you think?

Iím just off the phone to my brother (Belfast), he is slightly older than me but clearly remembers as a lad helping out on one of the Hendron lorries. The driver was a guy who lived in Ship St, a stones throw away. The guy was Gerry Hughes and he was a driver for Hendronís. He used to park up at the end of the day in Trafalgar St and then walk home. So all in all it sounds on the mark.

As an aside Gerry Hughes was the father of a little girl, Clare who was tragically killed in a bombing... 15 yards from the house that I was born and reared in.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benny%27s_Bar_bombing


Spudz

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Re: McKillers Court / McKellors Court
« Reply #11 on: January 10, 2020, 10:22:58 PM »

Once again thanks CMcG for your time and expertise, really appreciated. And given what you say about these little houses it is going to be very difficult to find out who lived there.

Thanks to Bread Basket for the great photo and explanation,


Bread Basket

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Re: McKillers Court / McKellors Court
« Reply #12 on: January 10, 2020, 10:26:15 PM »
Once again thanks CMcG for your time and expertise, really appreciated. And given what you say about these little houses it is going to be very difficult to find out who lived there.

Thanks to Bread Basket for the great photo and explanation,
Spudz.... have you a name of any person who may have lived there?

CMcG

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Re: McKillers Court / McKellors Court
« Reply #13 on: January 11, 2020, 09:05:14 AM »
Here are the only 1890s newspaper references I could see, though the search facility in the subscription website I use is  unreliable and tends to miss lots of 'hits':

'... Daniel Boal, residing in McKellor's Court, off Nelson Street ...' (3 July 1895)

'... James Ireland, 2 McKeller's Court, off Nelson Street ...' (2 November 1896)

'... William John Edgar (46), dock labourer, of 4 McKeller's Court ...' (4 August 1897)

'... James Hamilton and his wife, Sarah Hamilton, of 2 McKellar's Court ...' (6 October 1897)

If there are any images posted above that are important to you, take your own copy - I cannot guarantee they will appear indefinitely.

Bread Basket

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Re: McKillers Court / McKellors Court
« Reply #14 on: January 11, 2020, 09:22:41 AM »
Here are the only 1890s newspaper references I could see, though the search facility in the subscription website I use is  unreliable and tends to miss lots of 'hits':

'... Daniel Boal, residing in McKellor's Court, off Nelson Street ...' (3 July 1895)

'... James Ireland, 2 McKeller's Court, off Nelson Street ...' (2 November 1896)

'... William John Edgar (46), dock labourer, of 4 McKeller's Court ...' (4 August 1897)

'... James Hamilton and his wife, Sarah Hamilton, of 2 McKellar's Court ...' (6 October 1897)

🧐🧐🧐... head scratching here.  I use BNA.... and did a search yesterday but nil results.  did an advanced search..
If you have any search tips then iím All ears