Author Topic: Latitia St, Belfast  (Read 519 times)

CMcG

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Re: Latitia St, Belfast
« Reply #15 on: March 05, 2020, 11:51:07 PM »

I think the Nora Kane in the above family may have married a William James Jenkins in 1907...


https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1907/10079/5665791.pdf

I'm pretty sure the above marriage to William James Jenkins in 1907 was indeed the correct Nora, William and her went on to have a number of children (eg. Mary in 1912, Ellen in 1913, Jeanette in 1918 and Susan in 1921), the couple were living with his parents in the Shore Road area of Belfast in the 1911 census, and it looks like they continued to live in the Shore Road area over the longer term:

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Antrim/Duncairn/Shore_Road/171060/

Nora died in 1955:



One year later, the following 'in memoriam' notices appeared, including mention of siblings Winifred and Patrick:



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Irene53

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Re: Latitia St, Belfast
« Reply #16 on: March 06, 2020, 03:11:22 AM »
Yes this Nora Kane did marry William Jenkins.  She was my gran - on my mothers side- and Iím so thankful for the information that you have shared as we keep hitting roadblocks.  Iím on ancestry but it seems like there are so many documents that we canít access. I think Iíll have to try going directly to the pages you have shared to see if I can access more information.  Iím trying to find a date of death of Nora Kaneís father - I believe her fathers name was John Kane and he married Mary Anne Fitzpatrick.  I have one date of death as 1957 but not sure if it is the correct John Kane and also not sure how to verify if it is the correct John Kane.  Any ideas would be helpful.  Once again, thank you for your help!

CMcG

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Re: Latitia St, Belfast
« Reply #17 on: March 06, 2020, 04:11:41 PM »

...  Iím trying to find a date of death of Nora Kaneís father - I believe her fathers name was John Kane and he married Mary Anne Fitzpatrick.  I have one date of death as 1957 but not sure if it is the correct John Kane and also not sure how to verify if it is the correct John Kane ...


The following John Kane who died on Sunday 10 February 1935 has to be a distinct possibility (this from the Belfast Telegraph on the afternoon/evening of Monday 11 February): 



There was a subsequent coroner's inquest (20 February) that described John as a 73 year old slater from Durham Street and confirmed that he died of cardiac failure following chronic heart disease. There was mention of his wife Mary and a son called Patrick at home with him.     

So looking at the evidence... for one thing, the reported age of 73 (72 according to the death registration) is in the ball park (ie. consistent with the 1901 census age of 40). Furthermore, the occupation is spot on - slaters called John Kane were very uncommon, in fact and by way of illustration, in addition to your John in the 1901 census living at Clovelly Street, there were only two other slaters called John Kane in the whole of Ireland in 1901, neither of them in the Belfast area. And finally, there is a match on the forenames of his wife and son.  So yes, a distinct possibility.

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Irene53

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Re: Latitia St, Belfast
« Reply #18 on: March 06, 2020, 06:32:01 PM »
This certainly seems like a good possibility especially mentioning wife Mary and son Patrick.  Others on ancestory show Mary Anne Fitzpatrick as passing on in 1920 although no death  certificate or announcement to support that.  Iíll keep digging.  Is the Belfast Telegraph a good source for obituaries?  Thank you!

CMcG

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Re: Latitia St, Belfast
« Reply #19 on: March 07, 2020, 08:04:39 AM »
For Protestant death notices it can be, for Catholic deaths, one really needs access to the Irish News (I haven't found a good source online), but there's a list of caveats that I would place over this whole area that I could write a book on, suffice to say that online newspapers aren't some sort of genealogical silver bullet, my experience is that they are hard work and surprise and disappoint in equal measure.   

If there are any images posted above that are important to you, take your own copy - I cannot guarantee they will appear indefinitely.

Irene53

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Re: Latitia St, Belfast
« Reply #20 on: March 08, 2020, 02:49:29 AM »
Will have to see what I can find out about these papers. Really appreciate the help you have given me! 

CMcG

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Re: Latitia St, Belfast
« Reply #21 on: March 08, 2020, 05:08:42 PM »

... Believe son John immigrated to the States - not sure of date ...


The only thing I can add to this now (about son John), is that I can see a transcription of a baptism in St. Peter's RC Church Belfast on 4 June 1890 for a John Kane whose parents were recorded as John Kane and Mary Fitzpatrick (I can't see a civil registration)... the baptismal record was subsequently annotated to indicate that John married a 'Margaret' Mulligan at Queen of All Saints Church in Brooklyn on 23 June 1931.

I can see a possible relevant marriage licence in 1931 for a John Kane and Marjorie Mulligan... or maybe a co-incidence of names...
But struggling to find anything else for now... maybe fresh eyes needed.  :)
 

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Irene53

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Re: Latitia St, Belfast
« Reply #22 on: March 08, 2020, 08:18:16 PM »
I need to ponder this for a bit and go back through information that I have.  I feel there is a link here but not quite sure where.  There is confusion to the names.  I do recall my mother talking about her mother having 2 brothers that went to America. Lawerence definitely was one brother and I thought the other was Patrick but with the information you shared about the death of the father I think Patrick stayed in Ireland and perhaps it was his brother John.  Will have to organize the information I have and also take a break and try to come back with ďfresh eyesĒ.  Once again, thank you!

CMcG

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Re: Latitia St, Belfast
« Reply #23 on: March 09, 2020, 02:15:43 AM »

OK, the marriage of John Kane and Mary Fitzpatrick took place in 1884 in St. Peter's RC Church Belfast, the record is free to view in the following Irish Government website link, the two fathers were given as Patrick Kane, a carpenter, and Bernard Fitzpatrick, a blacksmith:

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1884/10888/5977001.pdf


Just another thing to note, while the above 1884 civil marriage registration identifies both fathers, a transcript of the St. Peter's church version of the marriage record additionally identifies both mothers' forenames: Anne Kane and Ellen Fitzpatrick.

While I've had no luck finding out more about John Kane's parents Patrick and Anne, there is a church marriage record for a Bernard Fitzpatrick and Ellen O'Neill in St. Patrick's Belfast on 16 July 1862, the couple then had a daughter Mary Ann baptised in the same church on 13 May 1863 (below - right page, 7 lines up from bottom):

https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633210#page/222/mode/1up

The following death registration shows a 40 year old widow called Ellen Fitzpatrick who died in December 1886, the death informant indicates that her maiden name was O'Neill and her address of 'Cinnamond St.' was in the immediate vicinity of both addresses cited in the 1884 marriage of John Kane and Mary Fitzpatrick (ie. Cullingtree Road and Massereene St.), so just maybe Mary's mother?

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1886/06235/4784923.pdf

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CMcG

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Re: Latitia St, Belfast
« Reply #24 on: March 09, 2020, 03:49:07 AM »

Just another thing to note, while the above 1884 civil marriage registration identifies both fathers, a transcript of the St. Peter's church version of the marriage record additionally identifies both mothers' forenames: Anne Kane and Ellen Fitzpatrick ...


Hmmm, the above forename Anne isn't consistent with what follows... compare the following two records in 1884 which are for the exact same Belfast address - 3 Ton Street (which was just off the Cullingtree Road) - and which reflect two events that took place just one week apart:

1. On 14 July, a 49 year old widow called Norah Kane died, the informant present at death was 'John Kane son of deceased':

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1884/06317/4811691.pdf

2. On 21 July, John Kane and Mary Fitzpatrick had their son Patrick:

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1884/02683/1988320.pdf

If there are any images posted above that are important to you, take your own copy - I cannot guarantee they will appear indefinitely.

Irene53

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Re: Latitia St, Belfast
« Reply #25 on: March 10, 2020, 02:05:43 AM »
On a different persons family tree I see that the person has Norah Kane married to Patrick Kane with their source Ireland, Catholic Parish registers, 1655-1915.  I can not make out the information.  They also have no documentation on the person Norah (Patrickís spouse).  What you have included here about the ď49 year old widow Norah Kane died ď and her son John as being informant and present at death makes me wonder if Patrick Kaneís spouse was Norah?
I will not be able to look at this until the weekend- perhaps a few days away will allow me to look at this with Better eyes!  Thank you for all your help!

CMcG

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Re: Latitia St, Belfast
« Reply #26 on: March 10, 2020, 08:59:53 AM »
The St. Peter's Church marriage record of 1884 that I've seen for John Kane and Mary Fitzpatrick is only a transcript of what someone interpreted from the original document, which unfortunately isn't online.  It's difficult to imagine how 'Anne' would have been mistranscribed from 'Nora' or a variant thereof, but it is a possibility regardless. Or of course, Patrick Kane may have married twice. The problem is that we are already back to an era where the records available, and/or the bits if information within them often simply aren't there to allow a conclusive determination.   

In relation to the Catholic Parish Registers, 1655-1915 Collection, the nearest match on the names 'Patrick Kane' and 'Nora' I can see is of Patrick Kane to Honorah Keogh, but it doesn't work for me as the marriage took place at the other end of the country (St. Patrick's Cork City), and the year it took place (28 July 1844) doesn't sit well with the age profile of the Norah Kane who died in 1884 at 3 Ton St. Belfast.

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St.Anthony

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Re: Latitia St, Belfast
« Reply #27 on: March 12, 2020, 04:36:24 AM »
For information purposes, Letitia Street was in the parish of St. Mary's, Chapel Lane, Belfast

Irene53

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Re: Latitia St, Belfast
« Reply #28 on: March 12, 2020, 12:56:03 PM »
Thank you!