Author Topic: Joseph Kinnear Close  (Read 641 times)

JKC

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Joseph Kinnear Close
« on: July 26, 2020, 10:34:32 AM »
Iím interested to know of any history or of any relatives of  Joseph Kinnear Close born Carrickfergus in 1864.

The second son of William Close, a Minister with the Loughmourne Reformed Presbyterian Church, he was educated at Rockview Intermediate School Carrickfergus. Christened William Joseph Close, he changed his name to Joseph Kinnear Close, Kinnear being l think maybe his motherís maiden name. Joseph had an older brother Robert who died aged 15 in 1880, and a younger sister Eliza born in 1870. Did Eliza have any children?


I have quite a lot of information about Joseph as he had a long and distinguished career in the Indian Medical Service.


Joseph married a Sara Burnay Johnson at Newtownbreda in the parish of Knockbreda 30th September 1890. They had one daughter Edith Mary Isabel Close who was born in Ballylesson Down Ireland 25th July 1891. His wife Sara passed away in 1942 aged 76 in Oxfordshire and his daughter Edith in 1974 in Fulham Middlesex aged 82.


If anyone knows anything about this family Iíd love to hear from them.


sam barry

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Re: Joseph Kinnear Close
« Reply #1 on: July 26, 2020, 11:08:14 AM »
His parents Marriage, which might assist you:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1851/09402/5405833.pdf

Surname(s)   Graveyard   Civil Parish   Graveyard Location   County
CLOSE   Loughmourne Pres   Carrickfergus   North East Division   Antrim
Gravestone Inscription   Erected by the congregation of Loughmourne in loving memory of Rev Wm Close, ordained 7th Nov 1848, died 12th May 1899 He was their faithful and esteemed pastor for almost 50 years, an able expounder of scripture, an earnest preacher and a diligent worker for the spiritual and temporal welfare of his people He being dead yet speaketh .
Comment   [White marble tablet in entrance hall of church]

Surname(s)   Graveyard   Civil Parish   Graveyard Location   County
CLOSE   Loughmourne Pres   Carrickfergus   North East Division   Antrim
Gravestone Inscription   In memory of the Rev William Close, born 17th January 1822, ordained minister of Loughmorne Congregation 7th November 1848, died 12th May 1899 Also his wife Eliza Kinnear Close, born 27th April 1829, died 26th May 1906 And of their son Robert Close, born 9th October 1866, died 5th December 1905 And of their daughter Mary Close, born 25th July 1858, died 23rd May 1928
Comment   [Large granite stone] [Probate of the will of the Reverend William Close, formerly of Loughmorne, Carrickfergus, and late of Clinen, The Knock, county Down, Presbyterian minister, who died 12 May 1899, granted at Belfast 16 June 1899 to Robert Close of Clinen, Knock, bank official Effects £2,460 5s 6d ].

JKC

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Re: Joseph Kinnear Close
« Reply #2 on: July 27, 2020, 09:17:48 AM »
Hi Sam. Thank you so much for this information, this gives me quite a bit more correct data about Josephís family data. Great to see his parents marriage records.

I was wondering if you help me with another question. Josephís registered birth name was William Joseph Close, presumably named after his father. Some time between then and 1886, when he qualified as a Doctor, he had changed his name to Joseph Kinnear Close. I had always assumed that Kinnear was maybe motherís maiden name. Is this common practice in Ireland? I just wondered because Josephís wifeís maiden name was Sara Burnay Johnson and ďBurnayĒ sounds more like a surname. Iím also curious to know why he might have changed his name.

Many thanks


Elwyn

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Re: Joseph Kinnear Close
« Reply #3 on: July 27, 2020, 10:42:10 AM »
Presbyterians often used a surname as a middle name. Quite often it could be the motherís maiden name or another close relative. Sometimes it might be someone they respected eg the local Minister or Schoolteacher.
Elwyn

JKC

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Re: Joseph Kinnear Close
« Reply #4 on: July 27, 2020, 11:18:22 AM »
Thanks Elwyn, thatís interesting. It just seems odd that he changed his name electing to drop his fathers name, l wonder if they had fallen out or something.

sam barry

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Re: Joseph Kinnear Close
« Reply #5 on: July 27, 2020, 12:54:20 PM »
Do you have this:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1865/03589/2323053.pdf

U/1865/130/1016/1/283, William Close, 22nd December 1864, Male, Kinnear, Larne

JKC

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Re: Joseph Kinnear Close
« Reply #6 on: July 27, 2020, 02:27:31 PM »
Hi Sam

Many thanks for this, presumably the original registration document? I didn't have it, but I did have a "Certified Copy of Entry in the Registry Book" that Joseph Kinnear Close provided the Indian Medical Service when he joined in 1887, it's definitely the same man, and refers to Entry No 283, matching what you have given me. It now seems like he was originally registered as "William Hugh" in the register and not "William Joseph", but still changed his name to Joseph Kinnear Close by 1886 when he qualified as a Doctor and joined the IMS. 

sam barry

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Re: Joseph Kinnear Close
« Reply #7 on: July 27, 2020, 06:12:30 PM »
Was wondering about the "Burney " in Sara Johnson's name, might it have come from this generation ?
 
Surname
First Name
Year
Father's First Name
Johnson
John
1712
AntrimCivil Marriages
Date of Marriage00/03/1712
Husband's NameJohn Johnson
Wife's NameMary Burney
Wife's AddressLisburn town
DenominationChurch of Ireland
Commentdate of marriage unclear; Julian calendar date 2/03/1711/12
Address 1Blaris (Lisburn) Church of Ireland

Just a thought, ??

JKC

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Re: Joseph Kinnear Close
« Reply #8 on: July 27, 2020, 06:49:47 PM »
I was convinced that his wifeís name was Burnay not Burney because I have a copy of their marriage registry entry and although it could be an a or and e, from the hand writing it looked just like an a from other words. Iíve now compared the document l have with the entry from irishgenealogy  and itís a different handwriting so Iím confused. Does someone re-write parts of the register to give a legible copy? I need to find her birth certificate to see what that shows for her surname.

JimG

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Re: Joseph Kinnear Close
« Reply #9 on: July 29, 2020, 10:06:56 AM »
trying to unravel further names appearing
William Close  information
https://apps.proni.gov.uk/WillsCalendar_IE/WillsSearchImage.aspx?id=222602
Close   William   12 May 1899   16 Jun 1899   Probate of the Will of The Reverend William Close formerly of Loughmorne Carr...   Open Image in a new window Image
Probate of the Will of The Reverend William Close formerly of Loughmorne Carrickfergus and late of Clinen The Knock County Down Presbyterian Minister who died 12 May 1899 granted at Belfast to Robert Close of Clinen
the image shows the wording of the will
the executor is his son Robert Close of Clinen, Knock, bank official Effects £2,460 5s 6d see https://apps.proni.gov.uk/WillsCalendar_IE/WillsSearchImage.aspx?id=222602] the will mentions two daughters ie Mary Close and Eliza Kinnear Close  [with no mention of any other son.]
so has Edith Mary Isabel become Mary?


Robert Close information
PRONI Will Calendars
https://apps.proni.gov.uk/WillsCalendar_IE/WillsSearchImage.aspx?id=246730
Surname   Forename   Death   Grant   Abstract   
Close   Robert   5 Dec 1905   16 Jan 1906   Probate of the Will of Robert Close late of Clinen Knock Belfast Bank Officia...   Open Image in a new window Image
Probate of the Will of Robert Close late of Clinen Knock Belfast Bank Official who died 5 December 1906 granted at Belfast to William Burrowes Close Accountant and Mary Close Spinster effects £xxxx.xx
the image of the will shows relationships
Robert Close bank official d 1906 late of Clinen his will 24 Jun 1905 leaves interest and income to his mother, all my property to my sister Mary Close and my brother William Burrowers Close with 2 signaturies at Belfast Bank Belfast. when did Robert die?
residences




other notes
William Close,
last residence Clinen, The Knock, county Down notes Clinen is the name of a building consisting of two semi detached houses in  1900 street directory at PRONI listed as Rev William Close living at Clinen Barnetts Road, Knock he is also listed under clergy in 1899,   Barnetts Road is off Kings Rd and appears to have a no1 and no 2 it was between  Marietta and Hillview.  In 1894 Edward Garrett and Alexander Morrison so it looks like no 2 is where the Close lived for a short time
eg1901 Mrs Close is 2nd name, 1906 clinen no 1 isvacant
other residences
1864 Rock View Carrickfergus.is the address of where Robert b1864 was born.   Carrickfergus district was registered within Larne District explains why Larne keeps appearing.


obituaries briefly search for either
William Close b 1822 is not listed by UHF ancestryireland.com
William Joseph Close b 1864 is not listed by UHF ancestryireland.com
Joseph Kinnear Close m 1890 has 2 m entries in UHF ancestryireland.com
Close in carrickfergus but not connected in https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Special:SearchPerson
William Close b 1822 not in genesreunited


over to you all


JKC

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Re: Joseph Kinnear Close
« Reply #10 on: July 29, 2020, 04:29:39 PM »
Hi JimThank you so much for the information you have provided.From what l can see William, his wife Eliza, son Robert and daughter Mary are all buried in the same plot in Carrickfergus. Edith Mary l believe was Williamís Granddaughter born 25th July 1891 or it could be his daughter Mary. It would make sense that Joseph Kinnear Close is neither mentioned on the grave stone because he died in Wimbledon 12 years after his sister died in 1928. It also makes sense that Joseph was not mentioned in Williamís will as he left Ireland in 1886/7 and as far as I know only ever returned once to marry his wife Sara(h) Burnay or Burney Close 30th September 1890. William Close married  Joseph and Sara 30th September 1890.Robertís will is more confusing because it mentions a William Burrowers Close and his sister Mary. Who is William Burrowers Close?Robert died 5th December 1905 but was born 9th October 1866. It was Joseph who was born in 1864 22nd December, but just confuse was registered as William Hugh Close and then changed his name at some point before 1886 to Joseph Kinnear.Iím still confused about Josephís wifeís name. I have a copy marriage register entry direct from the GRO, and from this document Iím sure her name was Sara Burnay Johnson. Iíve spoken to the GRO who say that their document is the Original and Official copy. The signature of Joseph appears to match others l have for him and looks like his hand. the copy l have from Irishgenealogy has different handwriting and Is difficult to read. Do you know why these are different documents?

JimG

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Re: Joseph Kinnear Close
« Reply #11 on: July 29, 2020, 05:31:30 PM »

a quick reaction:- the GRO dublin copy is what I assume is the original, after Northern Ireland formed I thought the same document that related to the NI area were given to PRONI or the GRONI. if copies were made by hand for NI all the real signaturies would be hand copied but nothing like the originals.  I am not sure of what stage of development in photocopying around 1921-1930 if copies were made the copy might be useing  larger silver crystals which would make an inferior copy. I have only encountered something similar once, which was a family tree copied by the blueprint process , in about quarter real size it looked sharp but once back to full size it lost much detail and looked like ďmodern pixels had disappearedĒ which were not around in those days.(Unless it was the way transmitted to me which used pixels!)


The other thought was how different does a church marriage certificate look rather than civil. it might have copied the civil arranged layout for marriages which is tight in preprinted columns forms and entry spacing for so many marriages per upright page, unlikely the extended rectangular oblong shape of a marriage certificate.
I also donít know if a carbon copy was supplied to the registrar, but a pen entry would not make an image worth having.
it is an intriguing question


so hoping others know more


JKC

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Re: Joseph Kinnear Close
« Reply #12 on: July 29, 2020, 05:42:25 PM »
Hi Jim that makes sense. The copy l got from GRONI looks more like the original copy. The one from Irish.genealogy looks more like a poorly written copy or maybe a church copy.

The mystery still remains who is the William Burrowes Close mentioned in Roberts Will as  my brother William Burrowes Close and in Maryís will as William Burrows Close gentlemen?

sam barry

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Re: Joseph Kinnear Close
« Reply #13 on: July 29, 2020, 06:58:44 PM »
Will of William Burrowes Close:

Title :   Mr   Date of Death :   18 October 1941
Surname :   Close   Date of Grant :   20 February 1942
Forename :   William Burrowes   Reseal Date :   
Registry :   Belfast   Effects :   Effects £137 10s 1d
No Image
Full Abstract :
Close William Burrowes of Clonbeg Courtlands Cross Exmouth county Devon died 18 October 1941 Probate Llandudno 20 February to Clara Harvey Burrowes Close the widow. Effects in Northern Ireland £137 10s. 1d. Re-sealed Belfast 13 May.


JKC

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Re: Joseph Kinnear Close
« Reply #14 on: July 29, 2020, 07:31:43 PM »
I canít seem to find his birth registration. Can anyone else help? William Burrowes Close?