Author Topic: Carnmoney / Whitewell  (Read 55148 times)

Townharry

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Carnmoney / Whitewell
« on: March 13, 2008, 02:16:16 PM »
Hi everybody, I wonder if anyone would remember or have pictures of the row of cottages which were situated on the hill where the entrance to Belfast zoo is now.
My Grandfather worked for a time in Whitewell quarry and he lived in one of these cottages.
Any help would be most appreciated !!
Many thanks,
Town Harry :)
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sj

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Re: Carnmoney / Whitewell
« Reply #1 on: May 01, 2008, 01:10:36 PM »
Harry
Hope that you get one...I remember the cottages and the bloke who had the horse and rode it up and down the Antrim Rd.
I had a conversation with him one night and he bought the horse from the London police and kept it next to the cottages.
I'm patient with stupidity but not with those who are proud of it ...

fionalorraine

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Re: Carnmoney / Whitewell
« Reply #2 on: May 09, 2008, 09:26:40 AM »
Hi my Dad lived on the Whitewell and I have been looking at some of the famlies there - my great grandfather Bill Traynor worked on the quarry and I have a very old photo of the workers.  He was related to Finnegans - Adam in particular - who was blind [we think blinded in a quarry explosion].  I am associated also with the Palmer and McAleavey families.  We know of a person who writes articles about the area for the Newtownabbey times - we have some of them - he has a lot of photos of this area.  Which families are you connected with?

Would the old houses have been on the side of the road down from the Bellevue Arms [my dad was born in one of these] or on the side of the Zoo up a small lane [there is still a farm there]?

Fiona

sj

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Re: Carnmoney / Whitewell
« Reply #3 on: May 09, 2008, 11:03:53 AM »
Hi my Dad lived on the Whitewell and I have been looking at some of the famlies there - my great grandfather Bill Traynor worked on the quarry and I have a very old photo of the workers.  He was related to Finnegans - Adam in particular - who was blind [we think blinded in a quarry explosion].  I am associated also with the Palmer and McAleavey families.  We know of a person who writes articles about the area for the Newtownabbey times - we have some of them - he has a lot of photos of this area.  Which families are you connected with?

Would the old houses have been on the side of the road down from the Bellevue Arms [my dad was born in one of these] or on the side of the Zoo up a small lane [there is still a farm there]?

Fiona

Fiona

I'm talking about the cottages at the side of the Zoo and up a lane.  On the other side of the road I don't think that there were any cottages.  It is possible that if there were that they were demolished when the M2 motorway was built. ::)
I'm patient with stupidity but not with those who are proud of it ...

Townharry

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Re: Carnmoney / Whitewell
« Reply #4 on: May 09, 2008, 07:15:15 PM »
Hi Fiona,
Many thanks for that information, My Grandfather was Thomas Colgan and he and some of his brothers moved from Tobermore to Carnmoney to work in the quarry. The cottages in question where on the zoo side and looked down unto the Antrim Road.
I'm told that they used to enjoy a drink in the Bellevue Arms.
Any further information you could help me with would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks again,
Townharry
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fionalorraine

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Re: Carnmoney / Whitewell
« Reply #5 on: May 10, 2008, 08:19:17 AM »
I'll ask my dad if he knows anything.  Here is a quick list of families in 1911 on the Whitewell - notice the Colgan Family and the quarry workers too - Nathaniel Roberts is an interesting one.  Gimore is another family we know of.

Whitewell 1911: here are some of my quick notes - I use them just as a reference - notes taken in great haste so may be mistakes - I still have more info to put in this mainly children and ages - hope this helps someone! [8/3/1 means Number of years of marriage/ Number of children born /no alive]

William Swann Pres 47 Laundry Man Married 23/3/3/ Co Antrim;
Mary McAllister 72 Single and James Son Farm Labourer all born Antrim;
John [labourer] and Jane Campbell aged 40 and 37 and May 3 8/3/1/ Born Co Antrim/Antrim/Antrim;
Mary Widow 70 Kirkpatrick and Samuel 28 Incapable Mary 25 Millworker James 24 Labourer Farm All Pres Born Co Antrim;
Mary Montgomery 57 Widow 14/6/6 and Thomas 30 Quarryman and Lizzie 25 and Isabella 23 and Hugh 21 COI All Co Antrim
James Kelly 50 Labourer RC and Ellen 29/5/5 Patrick 26 Sarah 24 Mary 16 Brigid 13
Robert and Agnes Foster Pres with David Ayr 19 Ellen 17 Robert 15 James 13 Margaret 11 Agnes 72 Widower - MIL
John and Mary Jane McCauley COI 21/5/4 with John 17 Robina 15 Sasrah Jane 12 Mary Ann 5
Joseph Gilmore 39 Widow and Mary 20 COI and Thomas 18 John 16 William 14 Joseph 11 James 8 Lizzie 6
John and Mary McWatters Andrew 9 Co Tryone COI 19/1/1
Robert and Sarah Colgan Robert Mary Elizabeth Sarah John Isabella ALL Co Antrim Sarah Jane Sister Co Derry COI 14/4/4
James and Margaret Jane Bick Thomas Lavina Mary Agnes John Matilda James David 21/8/7
George Tate 52 Sarah Jane Ellen Margaret Elizabeth Mary Agnes
Samuel and Elizabeth Patton Sarah Bella John Sam James taggart Robert Joseph Scott
Agnes Atchinson 58 Mary 48 Sister
Samuel and Elizabeth Ann McKinley? 1 year marriage
Sarah Nugent and Sarah John Elizabeth Adamson
Daviel Cavanan and Elizabeth Ellen McCarthy Lucinda Cavanan Agnes and Daniel McCarthy
Jane Beggs 34
Elizabeth Kelly and Mary 60
Matthew and Bridget and Mary Kelly 1/1/1
Arthur and Elizabeth Adams 26/30 3/-/-
Michael 42 and Julia  14 Norris Kildare/Co Antrim
Bridget M? Slone RC 45
Elizabeth and Chris MCA? 85/38
Owen Carroll 32 RC Co Louth
Thomas and Mary Kelly 46 and 42 years old Mary Lizzie H? Mggie John Dan? Patrick Co Antrim Scotland Co antrim
Annie Robb 45
Jane Campbell Pres and Jane and Mary Connor
John and Susanna Maxwell COI Thomas Hugh Bryce james Susan 15/9/6 Antrim
James Quarry Man and Rachel Wylie James Lizzie Maggie Chr? Rachel John Malachy Theresa 16/9/8 CO Antrim
Thomas and Margaret Higgans
James and Mary Finnegan
Charles and Margaret McCarthy Elizabeth 8/2/1 Co Antrim
Patrick and Catherine MCKernon 29 and 30 years 1/-/- Co Antrim
Ellen and Robert Finnegan and family
James and Mary McKernon Elizabeth James RC 2/2/2 Co Antrim
James and Elizabeth McCarthy 33/11/10 and family
Neil and Martha Jane McKillen etc Glasgow Londonderry Antrim
Felix and Ellen Jane Quinn etc
Sarah McKillen Rc 69 etc
Annie McKernon etc
Michael and Elizabeth Malone
James and Rose Duffy 20/9/7
William John and Lizzie McGuiness etc
Nathaniel McRoberts Quarry Man 56 Agnes 50 Samuel 17 David 16 Thomas 14 Sarah 12 William 10 By? 9 20/6/6 Co Antrim Carnmoney Pres
Henry COI Co Antrim 45 and Mary Ann Connor  RC 44 Co Louth 22/6/6 William John 21 Thoams Henry 19 Patrick Joseph 16 Maggie 14 M? Alice 7 Francis 7 Co Antrim

Whitewell on Drumadrough Film [part off - may be another part!]

George and Sarah Higgins and family
Isabella Kirkpatrick 70
James Ellen and Sarah Wilson
William McConnell
James and Jane Simms and Family
James and Ellen Reilly and family
Thomas McMaster and family Retired Tramway Superintendent
John and Elizabeth Balmer and Family
William and Emily McKernan and Family
james and Jane Scott
William John McDonald and family
John Agnes John Tate
Robert and Martha Stevenson and family

George Ingram
John Carson? etc
Jane Hamilyon Widow
Matilda Allison
Sarah O'Hara
Willim Beggs.

Townharry

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Re: Carnmoney / Whitewell
« Reply #6 on: May 10, 2008, 06:57:07 PM »
Very many thanks for that Fiona, this must be by Grandfather's brother Robert.
I can remember my father talking about Aunt Sarah Jane in Carnmoney, again this would tie in.
And you have mentioned Drumnadrough, my Father's birth was recorded in 1912 as Drumnadrough isn't that brilliant !!
Thanks again for all your help, i hope your Dad may remember something.
Townharry
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fionalorraine

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Re: Carnmoney / Whitewell
« Reply #7 on: May 11, 2008, 07:47:36 PM »
My dad can't speak for 3 weeks as he has a nodule on his vocal chords - I get him to write to me next weekend about this!

I can give you a photo of the quarry workers if you wish.  Send me a Personal Message with details - I can't seem to upload an image here.

GM CANADA

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Re: Carnmoney / Whitewell
« Reply #8 on: June 25, 2008, 03:17:42 AM »
Hi TownHarry and Fiona,
I came accross this by Site/Forum by accident, but am pleased i did. Not sure if you can help me. My grandparents Patrick and Elizabeth McKernan lived above a pub when they first married. The Pub was thought to be called the Bellevue Arms and was run by a relative (???). Do either of you have any recollections of said pub and who it was run by.
Long shot, but I thought I would try.
GM Canada

Mageeka

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Re: Carnmoney / Whitewell
« Reply #9 on: June 25, 2008, 03:27:28 AM »
Hi G M
The old Bellevue Arms is going stronger that ever   I know the current manager and will ask and see what he can come up with in answer to your question   The pub is now a restuarant and i have spent a lot of time in it recently
M IN THE USA

sj

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Re: Carnmoney / Whitewell
« Reply #10 on: June 25, 2008, 11:34:05 AM »
Hi TownHarry and Fiona,
I came accross this by Site/Forum by accident, but am pleased i did. Not sure if you can help me. My grandparents Patrick and Elizabeth McKernan lived above a pub when they first married. The Pub was thought to be called the Bellevue Arms and was run by a relative (???). Do either of you have any recollections of said pub and who it was run by.
Long shot, but I thought I would try.
GM Canada

Hello G.M.

tHE PUB USED TO BE OWNED BY THE dIAMOND FAMILY AND hARRY dIAMOND WAS AN OLD rEPUBLICAN lABOUR PARTY OR lABOUR PARTY MEMBER.OOpps.

I will try and find out who owned it before him....What year are we talking about. O0
I'm patient with stupidity but not with those who are proud of it ...

harrydunn

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Re: Carnmoney / Whitewell
« Reply #11 on: June 25, 2008, 11:01:25 PM »
1951 Belfast st directory lists Bellevue arms( B&P Bradley Prop's)
also listed same building ? Joseph Bradley. spirit merchant.

sj

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Re: Carnmoney / Whitewell
« Reply #12 on: June 25, 2008, 11:22:29 PM »
Thanks Harry....I had forgotten about street directories. O0
I'm patient with stupidity but not with those who are proud of it ...

GM CANADA

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Re: Carnmoney / Whitewell
« Reply #13 on: June 26, 2008, 02:45:33 AM »
Thx Everyone. My grandparents married in 1902 and family lore has it that they first lived above a pub (Thought to be named the Bellevue Arms). Again family lore has it that this pub was destroyed by a fire. I did write to the present Bellevue Arms, hoping they would have knowledge of the old one (I was led to believe the current one is only 30-40 years old), unfortunatley I did not receive a response. With Townharry,s mention of  the Bellevue and Fionalorraine,s list of residents including McKernon/McKernans, I was hoping perhaps that it was one of these McKernans that occupied or ran this pub. So if anybody can shed any light on the period 1902-1910 I would be extremely grateful.
My grandfather (Patrick McKernan) listed his residence as "Whitewell Seefort" on he marriage certificate. Does this mean anything to anyone ?
GM CANADA

JohnC

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Re: Carnmoney / Whitewell
« Reply #14 on: June 26, 2008, 08:50:57 PM »
There was another pub before the present Bellevue Arms - just about 100 yards on the Belfast side.  During my time at Whitewell 1935 - 1953 it was owned by the Bradley family but only opened one day each year (I understand this was to keep the licence).  There was living accommodation above this pub but I do not know the names of any of the residents.