Any ex St. Malachy's guys out there?
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1963 1968
Any ex St. Malachy's guys out there?My late father was there in the 1940s. My brother and I went there in the late 1960s. Dad loved the place, and could never understand why my brother and I hated it.
Yes Stickyra
Gerry is one of my sons
Maggie
My Brother is the Vice Principal there and has been for many a year.
My late father was there in the 1940s. My brother and I went there in the late 1960s. Dad loved the place, and could never understand why my brother and I hated it.
The educational standards were high, but my abiding memory of the place is the bleakness. Education was something to be thumped into the students, and there was no joy of learning. After 5 years at St Malachy's, I went to a comprehensive in Australia and the contrast was stunning. In Australia, we had teachers who were passionate about their subjects, as opposed to teachers who had been dictating the same notes for years (in some cases, since my dad had been a pupil there) and whose pedagogical imagination didn't extend beyond the cane or the strap.
Sorry if that sounds negative. I'm sure that there were people who enjoyed the place!
Stiofan: I know what you mean. It had not changed a great deal by the early seventies and I have mixed feelings about the place. There were one or two teachers who should not have been allowed anywhere near young people. Unfortuntely they are dead now so I will not live out my fanasies about the retribution I always had in my heart to deal out to them when I got old enough.
Any ex St. Malachy's guys out there?
HI Stickyra
Yes that's our Gerry.He lives in Singapore,been there about 16 years.Three kids ,two girls and one son.
Maggiemay
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Hi, Went to St Malachys 56 to 63. Patch Kerr was President followed by Walter Larkin. Beef McCorry was Dean. - Ray
Some of the classrooms at our school, Crumlin Road Convent faced some of the classrooms of St. Malachy's.
You would have thought we had never seen boys in our lives the way we would be hanging out the windows and shouting after the boys. :D
Of course we had the severest punishment when we got caught :angry2:
Geraldine - Wish my classrooms had looked out over the convent but all I could see was Crumiln Road jail :angry2: :angry2:
stickyra, the nurses home was beside us as well and I am wondering if there were any of those windows in sight of St. Malachy's. ;) ;)
There's a conicidence. One of the contestants on last night's Australian version of Who Wants To be a Millionaire was Eugene McConville, who started St Malachy's in 1967 and emigrated in 1972 or thereabouts.
Hi, Went to St Malachys 56 to 63. Patch Kerr was President followed by Walter Larkin. Beef McCorry was Dean. - Ray
Hi, Went to St Malachys 56 to 63. Patch Kerr was President followed by Walter Larkin. Beef McCorry was Dean. - Ray
What has happened to the Alumni site? It seemed to die off a few years back.
Eugene McConville is my wife's cousin. How did he do on the show?Dunno - I haven't seen the show yet. I should confess that I'm assuming that it's the one and only Eugene McConville. I only know about it because my mother told me that a 54 yo guy from Belfast had been on and his name was Eugene McConville. I've got a tape, so I'll let you knw when I've watched it.
There's a conicidence. One of the contestants on last night's Australian version of Who Wants To be a Millionaire was Eugene McConville, who started St Malachy's in 1967 and emigrated in 1972 or thereabouts.Eugene was in my class in Park Lodge. I hope he won a few thousand Dollars :smile:
Muckermcd I am trying to think who your brother might be.
I got a hold of Eugene through email and he says he didn't win any money (probably to stop the begging letters), but he is now reviewing TV and movie opportunities.. :D
Walter Larkin could have kept fish fresh. .. ;)
Poor old Walter had a Hiatus Hernia to beat all others. When he later became parish priest in Crossgar the ladies of the parish were very careful not to make him laugh in case he created unbearable hell in the confines of the confession box.
I had an older handicapped brother with the same problem. Before I went to school each day he would ask me to put on his tie. I could never hold my breath long enough no matter how I tried.
So what? Nothing wrong with poor taste.
Barney Mc Laverty in his book of short stories " Secrets" obviously didn't appreciate Hugo Lynch as he depicted a character who taught him ( he was a priest ) as a social, snob and only interested in students whose parents had money or influence. However when you read Hugo's obituary it tells you of a very lonely man with real feelings. Sometimes in the teacher / pupil relationship we are not aware of these points. ;)
I never knew Dirty Dick Dynan to lay into anyone 1958-1964, certainly Purdy did. He waited for me every morning at the head of the avenue, hiding in the door of the English school, to dole out two for being late. Walter did the same for a couple of years prior before he grew tired and delegated to Purdy. Purdy died of a brain tumour not too long after. (RIP).OMG - perhaps Dirty Dick was telling the truth when he said that I was the first person to whom he had ever given six! However, I presume that he didn't carry that strap around as a fashion accessory.
I think that you're doing MacLaverty a disservice! A crucial part of that story (The Exercise) involves Waldo's apologising to the boy for behaving like a snob.
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I didn't intend to do Barney Mc Laverty a disservice. Some people are not suited to being teachers with younger people especially when they have spent sometime studying Theology. However that happens in all schools. ;) Don't forget the smileys.
Never did French, SJ. I presume that was Frog's subject.When I was there, his subject was officially titled "Elocution". However, that seemed to cover a lot of ground, ranging from proper forms of address to (I clearly remember) instructions on how to wipe your bottom properly. He also did a bit of RE, in the form of Bible studies. His biblical interpretations tended to be rather basic - to this day, I have word-perfect recall of his quotations from Paul which condemned homosexuality. BTW is it true that he operated a pirate IRA radio station during WW2 and had been interned?
Didn't Dirty Dick also teach the girls at St Dominic's, Rathmore and Fortwilliam "how to speak proper". As far as I remember he was at St Malachy's on only one day per week.
I had a bad stutter and he invited me to private elocution lessons but he lost interest when he was told my 5 pounds annual levy had never been paid. Do I now owe the college 30 quid for my six years?
When I was there, his subject was officially titled "Elocution". However, that seemed to cover a lot of ground, ranging from proper forms of address to (I clearly remember) instructions on how to wipe your bottom properly. He also did a bit of RE, in the form of Bible studies. His biblical interpretations tended to be rather basic - to this day, I have word-perfect recall of his quotations from Paul which condemned homosexuality. BTW is it true that he operated a pirate IRA radio station during WW2 and had been interned?
Frog doesn't ring any bells. Our French teacher was "Sambo".
I never knew Dirty Dick Dynan to lay into anyone 1958-1964, certainly Purdy did. He waited for me every morning at the head of the avenue, hiding in the door of the English school, to dole out two for being late. Walter did the same for a couple of years prior before he grew tired and delegated to Purdy. Purdy died of a brain tumour not too long after. (RIP). Afternoons of my last year 1964 was spent mainly at the Plaza midday hop or roaming North Down in John Conway's old Standard Vanguard. He tried to drive the thing up to Napoleon's Nose.
Now I remember Frog. Dan something. So it was the frogmarch he adapted to move us firstyears out of the way. I thought it was the goosestep.
I'm just checking my pockets for the thirty quid now. I might have to ask for terms.
No relation SJ. Jim and his brother Dennis played for Derry.
I had three brothers at the college. Frank and Cormac both received Kings Scholarships. They were too hard an act for me to follow. Peter preferred to play hurling and took to drink at an early age.
Och sure didn't youse have a coal-burning stove in the nissen hut.
SJ in China. Have you heard of Rewi Allen, a New Zealander? People here in NZ are told that he was considered a God in China. Nothing to do with St Malachys, I'm aware.
So NZ has got a claim to some good work done by Rewi!
Back to St Malachy's college. .Are your brothers older or younger than you....Sam
You and everyone else on this thread seems to be years younger than I am. Wellyrec is near my age and we almost bumped into one another years ago. :smile:
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yep sam 61 this year. ....i think purdy enjoyed giving the strap ..cassidy the cane and lefty lenaghan i think it was the stap .be interesting to highlight each "teachers" preference ie strap/cane. who used strap only. :angry2:
So NZ has got a claim to some good work done by Rewi!
I was the youngest of the family. Cormac went to the college around 1946, Peter around 1948 and Frank around 1950. I didn't get there until 1958. Both Peter and Frank were good alley players. When Frank went to Queens he took up squash and went on to play for Ulster and Ireland. Like I said before Peter took up the drink early and regrettably(?) I followed suit. Only Cormac and I are left and also our only sister.
Frog's last name was Flaherty. Occasionally, he'd sneak into the Criterion for a drink after school.Lovely story Expat. It gave me a real buzz.
Your brother Pete was proud of the fact that he went into the Criterion one day , stood alongside the Frog and ordered a drink. Frog didn't speak to hm and couldn't turn him in because he'd be turning himself in at the same time.
Fr0gs name was Coughlan. In the early 50s he nad a son attending the school. Yes you guessed it his nickman was Tadpole.
I am sure that the Frog whom I refere to was not Coughlan.. I came to the college in the late 50's. I have found one old collegian but I can't recognise the name. By the late 50's he was quite elderly and doesn't appear in the 63 collegian. ;)sj,I remember the Frog ,Mr. Coghlan, teaching me French in the early 50's and he had a son attending the College then. There are 1958 and 1963 "Staff photos" on the website, he's in both. :smile: :smile: :smile:
I never knew Dirty Dick Dynan to lay into anyone 1958-1964, certainly Purdy did. He waited for me every morning at the head of the avenue, hiding in the door of the English school, to dole out two for being late. Walter did the same for a couple of years prior before he grew tired and delegated to Purdy. Purdy died of a brain tumour not too long after. (RIP). Afternoons of my last year 1964 was spent mainly at the Plaza midday hop or roaming North Down in John Conway's old Standard Vanguard. He tried to drive the thing up to Napoleon's Nose.
If it didn't do us any harm, what was the point of it?!?! The problem with the canings was twofold.
In spite of all the canings we seemed to accept it and I'm not sure that it did us any harm (nor any good) Ray
If it didn't do us any harm, what was the point of it?!?! The problem with the canings was twofold.
The first was that it was a totally innappropriate way to deal with fairly intelligent kids. We'd all been through the 11 plus and could therefore be assumed to be reasonably intelligent and interested in learning. Instead of building on that, St Malachy's took education down to the level of brute force: encouragement was replaced by fear.
The second problem with the over-use of the cane was that it bred a culture of violence in the school. Many teachers appear to have assumed that there was no difference between caning and punching or slapping students. I was punched in the eye by one teacher and slapped across the head by two others (in one case, so hard that I was knocked off the bench in the changerooms near the gym). None of this was regarded as particularly noteworthy.
The only teacher that I recall in the changing rooms was Mick. I don't think that he carried a strap ...so did he use the inside of his hand to slap you or was it someone else. I didn't have a problem with discipline if there was a reason for it. In Latin I saw a teacher strap a boy because he got a verb wrong which is I think inappropiate behaviour for a teacher. For not trying maybe but for making a mistake then that is inappropiate. However we lived in different times. Such times as when the b...specials raided the school looking for a 16yr old student. The boy was a boarder and went over the back wall. ;)I had left my gym gear at home. I was given a set of sheets that had to be filled in for the annual athletics carnival. The teacher left the changing rooms for about 15 minutes. When he returned, he found that I had filled in the sheets incorrectly. He lifted his hand and walloped me.
Walter Larkin definitely took his turn for a year or two waiting for latecomers between Beef McCorry and Purdy. It was just after he took over as President. Does anyone remember the time he gave us all a days holiday when the college won the McLarnon Cup and the day we were sent home as soon as we arrived when there was a snowstorm building up?
Purdy didn't join the staff until 1963. Before that Beef McCorry used to wait at the top of the avenue for latecomers. In spite of all the canings we seemed to accept it and I'm not sure that it did us any harm (nor any good) Ray
One for you Ray. ...
(http://i497.photobucket.com/albums/rr332/spacetinker/63Staffsm.jpg)
They just wanted us boys to grow up and be more wee priests. .might have worked if we had better examples to live up to!
I was hopeless at Latin...so my opinion is a bit biased. :smile:
Cheers m'dears. ...Tink.
(http://i497.photobucket.com/albums/rr332/spacetinker/druid.gif)
Hi to all those ex-St.Mals students with fond and not so fond memories of the school. I was sent this link by a friend who lives in New York and who didn't even go to the school!! Found the comments very enlightening as I thought I was the only one who was battered about the head on a regular basis.On one occasion I was punched about the head until I was black and blue by Fr. Brendan Mc Mullan but this didn't surprise me greatly as I had the dubious pleasure of being taught by him in P.3 before he joined the priesthood. In those days one of his many forms of punishment was to lift us off the ground by our hair.On another occasion in the mid 60s I was punched full in the face by Mr.Johnny Porter (Esq) but this was by mistake.His intended target,Martin Walsh, had ducked and I was the unfortunate victim.Did Mr. Porter apologise? Not a bit of it.He just shouted louder at the unfortunate Walsh who was now squirming in the corner. On another occasion I was thumped on the side of the head by Lefty Lenaghan.He hit me so hard that I slid across the seat of the old desk in A block and landed on my ass on the floor.This was the only occasion when I had actually deserved the punishment.Purdy got me at the old arch on many occasions.He didn't listen to excuses despite the fact that I had come down the Falls on on an old trolleybus renowned for coming off the rails and then had walked across the Shankill.Incidentally I think you'll find that Frog's name was actually Jimmy Frazer.Rubberneck Murray wasn't too bad when he started at the school but too many people, including myself, took advantage of his soft nature so he soon had to change.In answer to an earlier query on the site I knew Paul Donnelly who went to the school in the 60s. We were quite good friends and were in the same class. I had 4 brothers who also went to the school from the 40s through to the 70s.
::) Hello again.I would just like to say that I also met Fr. Brendan Mc Mullan socially outside of the school system and his personality was completely different. He seemed very gentle and soft spoken. I didn't remind him of any of the encounters we had during my time at school as I do not hold grudges against any of my former teachers but I can ensure you the punches were real. His brother Kevin, known as Elvis, was a very nice man and I always got on with him. As for Jimmy Frazer I also found him very pleasant and don't recall him ever losing his temper.Incidentally ,I sometimes socialise with Lefty Lenaghan as he occasionally frequents the local G.A.A. club to have a few pints of Guinness. Flipper.I know Jimmy Frazer is dead, and to the best of my knowledge, Lefty passed away a few years ago? :scratch_ones_head:
Was drinking with Lefty Leneghan tonight so reports of his demise are greatly exaggeratted!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :girl_blum: :girl_blum:I'm very glad to hear that, I like Lefty, but I was told that he and his bike got crushed by a bus, so if it's not true, that's great. :sorry:
:smile: Glad to hear that you're pleased to hear about Lefty.He's in his 70s but still very active. He does a lot of walking. He did spend a lot of time ,until recently, walking in The Pyrenees but it has become too much for him now. His wife died recently and since then he has become more withdrawn. Personally I think he is very lonely. Quite a few years back,when he retired, he told me that he even had to organise his own retirement do.He said the college did nothing for him and even made him come back to the college for the last two days of August since his retirement didn't technically begin until September 1st. So as I'm sure you can imagine !his parting memories are not pleasant. Incidentally, tonight I was having a drink with a nephew of Leonard Sudway and he would be interested to know what memories former pupils have of him, pleasant or unpleasant. I wasn't able to help him as he never taught me and I never had any encounters with him. He has heard that he was a targe!!! "Suds" is also still alive and I believe he's in his 80s. I think he may live in the Channel Islands. Thanks for your help!The Sudways were friends of my parents, so perhaps it was lucky that I never had him for a teacher. However, I did go with him on the school French trip to Belgium in 1969 or 1970 (my memory fails me). This type of excursion seems to be standard fare for schoolkids these days, but I thought it was a big deal back then. Apart from making sure that we all got on and off the proper trains and ferries, he let us do what we wanted most of the time - I'll bet that today's school trips are a LOT more tightly supervised, even though we didn't come to any harm just wandering around Belgium and Northern France.
Big Pad and Colm Beckett are dead too. Wee Bill McEvoy is alive and living in Australia. Hugh McEvoy is dead.I'd love to hear more about Bill McEvoy. I was in the same class 1958-1964 and smoked many a fag with him over the toilet bowls. I met him at the old-boys when he got a teaching post but he wasn't willing to small-talk.
Its in a better location now up the Antrim Road at Fortwilliam. I served on the Executive Council for a couple of years but had to resign when I left Belfast in 2001. By the way I cant say I know your old mate Eddie despite the fact that I am no stranger to the local arts scene. Maybe I have met him but am unaware of his identity.
Opposite the junction between Antrim Road and Skegoniell Avenue. Right beside Dr Ivan Goldblatt's medical/dental surgery.
StiofanDunky, indeed I did.
Apologies - I've only just found this thread. Did you used to live in Glengormley in the 1960s?
Dunky, indeed I did.
I remember being taught Religious knowledge by Father Des Wilson (Yea the one of some fame).
He often threw me out of his class for being "outspoken".
I would roam around trying to avoid Patch Kerr, the President, peering round corners, spotting him and keeping out of his way.
Des often had a rant about the injustices done to American Indians--I took the side of the cowboys.
I think that he changed his attitude years later. .maybe when Philbin became Bishop? ;)Greetings from the land of the long white cloud, Sam.
Greetings from the land of the long white cloud, Sam.
I reckon. Wasn't he told "Bi i do thost"
Hello Brian.....I had forgotten thatyou lived in a foreign country....I may have asked this before but are you related to Jim Mc Keever??What is the weather like with you. .Dessi Wilson then became a quite rebellious priest....against authority and I believe that today he is one of two priests who says Mass on the steps of St Joseph's church in Pilot Street that Walsh wanted to close.....I still can't believe that a college that is 176 yrs old still does not have a managed Alumni website. ;)
I've read your previous criticisms of the Alumni site which has remained not updated for yonks. I agree it is shameful.
Back to Dessi--he is a great favourite with the West Belfast ladies so we perhaps should not criticise him too much.
My sons went to St Malachys Jim,Gerry.Kev,Brendan,Michael and Conor O'Toole
My sons went to St Malachys Jim,Gerry.Kev,Brendan,Michael and Conor O'Toole
Hiya,Gerry is fine
He's moving to Australia in January
Maggiemay
Brian,
Sorry to hear that your brother Pete died. Did he live in Belfast? I thought he had moved to London after leaving school.
Probably not-I was in the same year but not the same class. I do remember the scrap he had in his final year at the top of the stairs by the old office.
I was at malachy's from '63 to '70, and I remember being given six by Larkin on my first day!!! He liked both cane and strap, but gave me the cane (for being out of my seat). The college was a brutalising experience in those days, and the priests were usually the most violent. Somewhat like the inaptly named Christian Brothers I had experienced before. I remember some teachers well, only one Cusack for chemistry, was any good. the biology teachers were terrible. drinan was a giant and faherty had one tooth and taught english. his gown was so ancient it had lichen growing on it. The bottom chemistry lab always stunk of hydrogen sulphide as the chemicals were kept at the back and pupils used to keep a constant bubbling supply of iron sulphide and hydrochloric acid! I also remember fights with squirty bottles full of mercury - absolutely lethal. The college was a health and safety nightmare.
I was at malachy's from '63 to '70, and I remember being given six by Larkin on my first day!!! He liked both cane and strap, but gave me the cane (for being out of my seat). The college was a brutalising experience in those days, and the priests were usually the most violent. Somewhat like the inaptly named Christian Brothers I had experienced before. I remember some teachers well, only one Cusack for chemistry, was any good. the biology teachers were terrible. drinan was a giant and faherty had one tooth and taught english. his gown was so ancient it had lichen growing on it. The bottom chemistry lab always stunk of hydrogen sulphide as the chemicals were kept at the back and pupils used to keep a constant bubbling supply of iron sulphide and hydrochloric acid! I also remember fights with squirty bottles full of mercury - absolutely lethal. The college was a health and safety nightmare.Bad start, only showing "First post" At St.Malachy's 1953-59. Hated every minute of those 6 years, Big Walter taught me Trigonometry and unbelievably made me love it!! I always found him very courteous and fair and he maybe favoured me as he had taught my brother Gerard a few years before at Maths and he was a real whizz kid. It has all changed so much since then but I have fond memories of the fellows I met there and some who are still friends. Anyone out there of this vintage??
Bad start, only showing "First post" At St.Malachy's 1953-59. Hated every minute of those 6 years, Big Walter taught me Trigonometry and unbelievably made me love it!! I always found him very courteous and fair and he maybe favoured me as he had taught my brother Gerard a few years before at Maths and he was a real whizz kid. It has all changed so much since then but I have fond memories of the fellows I met there and some who are still friends. Anyone out there of this vintage??Was there a little later 1956-62. Don't have the same bad memories - most of the same staff but I enjoyed most of it - Rayk
The office used to be at the left of the quadrangle. If you went through the door and turned left you'd go up two flights and there was a small classroom on the left and then if you went through the double doors there was another larger classroom on the left. Both rooms overlooked the canteen and the Crumlin Road.
My memory must be completely shot! When I went there in 67, the office was off to the right when you came in the main entrance. The seminarians' wing was to the left. And Eia Street was a long way from st Malachy's. :scratch_ones_head:
Your directions triggered some memories from my time there (65-72). Did you ever go beyond that double classroom and into the seminarians’ wing? I always had some vague superstitious unease walking through the dark corridor beyond that empty classroom on a weekend afternoon. It wasn’t ghosts that bothered me, but the thought of who might pop out of one of the rooms. They had their names on the door, and some of them I saw more than enough of in the normal school day.
The wing (long since demolished and replaced) was actually the inside of a row of terraced houses in neighbouring Eia St that the college had bought over the years. Some upstairs inside walls were demolished to produce a corridor of habitable rooms but the downstairs rooms were left untouched and unused. Sometime around 68 or 69 Noel Conway (Santa) used his influence to get one of the old bathrooms converted into a photographic darkroom. Nothing elaborate - blacked out window, sturdy wooden platform resting on the bath, check the electricity and water supply, nab a hundred or so from some budget for basic darkroom equipment. I spent a fair few weekend afternoons there trying to get something close to the print quality that Willie McCrum (remember the car dealer on Clifton St?) used to contribute to our occasional exhibitions but I never even achieved good contrast.
Still, it kept me off the streets!
My memory must be completely shot! When I went there in 67, the office was off to the right when you came in the main entrance. The seminarians' wing was to the left. And Eia Street was a long way from st Malachy's. :scratch_ones_head:
When you're traumatised directions can seem to be confused....Eia St was at the top of the Duncairn Gdns but we get the drift. :D ;)
When you're traumatised directions can seem to be confused....Eia St was at the top of the Duncairn Gdns but we get the drift. :D ;)
Your starter for 10 How did it get it's name?? EIA Street
EIA derives from the first three initials of the three daughters of the 3rd Earl of Donegal who were burnt to death in the old Belfast castle in 1708.
Your starter for 10 How did it get it's name?? EIA Street
I think you could be right there Maura, captain Samuel, W, Allworthy, an American Dermatologist built the Manor House, 183 Duncairn St and lived in it, he also had a daughter Evelyn. In case people don,t know "Duncairn St " ran from CARLISLE. CIRCUS TO LIMESTONE RD ie, the lower Antrim Rd
Have a look here:-
http://applications.proni.gov.uk/DCAL_PRONI_WillsCalendar/willsSearchResultsDetails.aspx (http://applications.proni.gov.uk/DCAL_PRONI_WillsCalendar/willsSearchResultsDetails.aspx)
Have a look here:-
http://applications.proni.gov.uk/DCAL_PRONI_WillsCalendar/willsSearchResultsDetails.aspx (http://applications.proni.gov.uk/DCAL_PRONI_WillsCalendar/willsSearchResultsDetails.aspx)
Your starter for 10 How did it get it's name?? EIA Street
Have a look here:-
http://applications.proni.gov.uk/DCAL_PRONI_WillsCalendar/willsSearchResultsDetails.aspx (http://applications.proni.gov.uk/DCAL_PRONI_WillsCalendar/willsSearchResultsDetails.aspx)
When are we going to get your explanation smith19.
I'll try again with this link. If you click on Edward ALLWORTY "details" and "image", you will see that he is the father of Samuel William ALLWORTHY, a doctor.
The bottom one, Marion is possibly Samuel's mother.
New link:- http://applications.proni.gov.uk/DCAL_PRONI_WillsCalendar/WillsSearchResults.aspx (http://applications.proni.gov.uk/DCAL_PRONI_WillsCalendar/WillsSearchResults.aspx)
I'll try again with this link. If you click on Edward ALLWORTY "details" and "image", you will see that he is the father of Samuel William ALLWORTHY, a doctor.
The bottom one, Marion is possibly Samuel's mother.
New link:- http://applications.proni.gov.uk/DCAL_PRONI_WillsCalendar/WillsSearchResults.aspx (http://applications.proni.gov.uk/DCAL_PRONI_WillsCalendar/WillsSearchResults.aspx)
(http://img573.imageshack.us/img573/4051/7a5882006dc2ed06e9ac661.jpg) (http://)
Suffer the little children :D
ANYONE ANY NEARER WHERE EIA STREET CAME FROM?
Smith 19..was that not resolved sometime ago. ;)No it wasn,t, Maura put a spanner in the works that it couldn,t be who i said it was so we have to go back to the drawing board. It defo was called after someone,s three daughters though.
No it wasn,t, Maura put a spanner in the works that it couldn,t be who i said it was so we have to go back to the drawing board. It defo was called after someone,s three daughters though.
No it wasn,t, Maura put a spanner in the works that it couldn,t be who i said it was so we have to go back to the drawing board. It defo was called after someone,s three daughters though.
I remember a small cafe where we used to go to and buy tea at lunch time, your directions sound very much like the place. This was early 50's. There was a photo of it on BF all boarded up. I have been trying to find this photo and will continue to do so, though it may have gone the way of so many others by being deleted. cannon.
Quite right Apalachie, it remains unsolved but I'll keep on digging! Does anyone remember the Venice Cafe just off Carlisle Circus on Crumlin Road or even the Bonbon where we hung out at lunchtime and boggled at the girls from Belfast High School? "Those were the days my friend!"
I remember a small cafe where we used to go to and buy tea at lunch time, your directions sound very much like the place. This was early 50's. There was a photo of it on BF all boarded up. I have been trying to find this photo and will continue to do so, though it may have gone the way of so many others by being deleted. cannon.
Quite right Apalachie, it remains unsolved but I'll keep on digging! Does anyone remember the Venice Cafe just off Carlisle Circus on Crumlin Road or even the Bonbon where we hung out at lunchtime and boggled at the girls from Belfast High School? "Those were the days my friend!"
Luchtime took us to the Venice or the Reo or the Olympic.
The owner of the sweetie shop always threatened to move us on for scaring off other customers as we hung around smoking our blues or greens.
There was also the ex-army place in Clifton St--I forget it's real name--you could get a cheap lunch there.
Luchtime took us to the Venice or the Reo or the Olympic.
The owner of the sweetie shop always threatened to move us on for scaring off other customers as we hung around smoking our blues or greens.
There was also the ex-army place in Clifton St--I forget it's real name--you could get a cheap lunch there.
I remember the Venice cafe at lunchtime. I also remember it at night some times. It was a haunt for some of the young bands that were around in late 50's early 60's. Last time that I was in it Gillespie who was in my year was there with a band that he managed. He was also a priest (Redemptorist rings a bell) ;)
Quite right sj, I only learnt that about the bands a few nights ago when I fell in with an old friend who used to play in a "showband" he said the name was "Judge Joey and the Jury" and I can't find any sign of them through the vast number of websites available. Was the "Gillespie" you mention one of brothers two of whom were albinos? The lady who ran the Venice apparently would stay open very late to accomodate the bands after their late gigs.
Nearly all the posts here talk about the '50s to the '70s, which makes me feel superficial and callow. I was there from 1983 to 1990 and there was quite a different set of teachers there from the ones twenty years before, (and many of them were women - something St Malachy's had never had before!).We had a female music teacher in 1970, so stop big-noting yerself! ;)
Among the teachers I knew were Fr Donal McKeown (alias Da Whizz), Mr Burns (Groucho), Ms Pettigrew (English, one of the most competent teachers I had the good fortune to have), Mr Gunning and Mr Cusick (Physics and chemistry respectively, two more very good teachers) and Mr Soetens (a Fleming who taught French and German).
By 1983, D block and E block were already standing and C block was still a wooden shack and the quad was all tarmac except for the shrine to Our Lady.
And the view from E block was of the Crumlin Road jail and next to the Big Field was an army Barracks.
This was St Malachy's College in the 1980's.
Oh, and my father Brian and his two brothers Gerry and Danny were there in the 50s and 60s...
Judge Joe and the Jury were in the main, Methody boys....they had a Rolls Royce hearse as their transport to lug about their gear....they were allowed to play in the boys gym at Methody to raise funds for Methody's effort to raise £1,000 for African charity...circa 1963--first live pop band I heard and they were good...the captain of the 1st XV did the vocals.... in fact, here we go.
http://irishshowbands.net/bgjury.htm (http://irishshowbands.net/bgjury.htm)
A great story Smith 19. .so you have friends who went to Methody :D ;) It's amazing G how many bands want a hearse as a road vehicle. Around here there are a few guys who have a band and use a hearse. They dress up in Tails and use white make up and eye liner when driving around. It's a bit scarey to glance at the vehicle beside you at the traffic lights and find a white face with sunken eyes staring at you.
The Gillespie to whom I refer was one of the brothers. I read a website a few years ago and there was information that he had gone blind . Can't remember where he lived ;)
I have friends who even went to borstal. I have found out a lot more about Judge Joe see my reply to Giannineo and the Gillespies to whom you refer lived around the Antrim Road. In fact if you can find an old Collegian there is a photo of them as they were three brothers at the college at one time - I think He was an albino and I remember him in his twenties and he had rapidly deteriorating eyesight at that time. But then he was an albinio and quite a brilliant pupil. Keep in touch.
Well done Giannineo. I had given up hope in trying to find anything on Judge Joe and then I found a photo in the personal photo collection of Liam O'reilly in the Irish Showbands Website. I only know of them because I got to know one of the band in recent years. Peter Sinnamon (of butcher's business) played drums with them and he was one of the odd ones out as he went to INST or so he claims. Were they really very good, he would be pleased to hear that. I see him for a very odd pint, it used to be the odd 10 or 12, those were the days!! I'm puzzled by your parting remark "in fact here we go" were you with them? Keep in touch and thanks for the info.
smith,"here we go"...referring to"here we go with the website on them"... I can remember them playing Brian Poole and the Tremeloes numbers---it was quite unusual for Methody to allow anything as decadent as pop music within its walls.....mind you, some of the boarders had a band, and the Few were mainly Methody boys-Brian Russell and the Wheeler twins..I managed a pop group of Methody boys and we were allowed to play at the second form party-3 numbers in all....the lead guitar was an old mate,Peter Cochrane who is well known still in the rock genre in Belfast---I recognise 3 of Judge Joe-the second from right is a guy called Jackson who was full back for the Methody 1st XV.
smith,"here we go"...referring to"here we go with the website on them"... I can remember them playing Brian Poole and the Tremeloes numbers---it was quite unusual for Methody to allow anything as decadent as pop music within its walls.....mind you, some of the boarders had a band, and the Few were mainly Methody boys-Brian Russell and the Wheeler twins..I managed a pop group of Methody boys and we were allowed to play at the second form party-3 numbers in all....the lead guitar was an old mate,Peter Cochrane who is well known still in the rock genre in Belfast---I recognise 3 of Judge Joe-the second from right is a guy called Jackson who was full back for the Methody 1st XV.
That guy Gillespie married a girl from Alexander St West, unfortunately he died a year back. He was a brother of Father Tony. Do you remember him.
Nearly all the posts here talk about the '50s to the '70s, which makes me feel superficial and callow. I was there from 1983 to 1990 and there was quite a different set of teachers there from the ones twenty years before, (and many of them were women - something St Malachy's had never had before!).
Among the teachers I knew were Fr Donal McKeown (alias Da Whizz), Mr Burns (Groucho), Ms Pettigrew (English, one of the most competent teachers I had the good fortune to have), Mr Gunning and Mr Cusick (Physics and chemistry respectively, two more very good teachers) and Mr Soetens (a Fleming who taught French and German).
By 1983, D block and E block were already standing and C block was still a wooden shack and the quad was all tarmac except for the shrine to Our Lady.
And the view from E block was of the Crumlin Road jail and next to the Big Field was an army Barracks.
This was St Malachy's College in the 1980's.
Oh, and my father Brian and his two brothers Gerry and Danny were there in the 50s and 60s...
Do you remember the skiffle group from the college, the way way back days?Can anyone refresh my memory on an energetic character called Derek someone who left the college around 1968 or so? He was known as Big Derek for two obvious reasons: he was over 6 feet, and he was fat. But very energetic with it. He had a clear passion for public appearance. At the college he was the guiding light in a project to make a film documentary of everyday life in the college (much the same as the rather sanitized one that you can see on the college website today) and he spent much time obstructing people and pushing a wind-up cine camera in their face. I don’t think the documentary was completed because around that time I started to take an interest in the camera club and I think I would have heard about it. I later saw Derek at a dance in Donegal where he was fronting his own showband “Big Derek and the …”, some name very similar to “Big Tom and the Mainliners”. Derek also did some TV news reporting for RTE. I recall him sitting bizarrely in a rowboat in a lake, occupying most of the boat and looking a bit precarious but still talking energetically. That was one larger than life character whose picture doesn’t appear among the college website’s front page heroes!
I see from the Barnageeha thread that Sean Devenney died a few months ago. There goes part of our past. Sean was there on my first day in 1965, giving out textbooks from a store room in the corridor leading to the old canteen. He and Gerry O'Hare usually got some rowdy stick when they had to come into the study hall to take the roll. And now he's gone. As Mick McCormick is reported to have said at a colleague's funeral: "the queue is getting shorter".
That guy Gillespie married a girl from Alexander St West, unfortunately he died a year back. He was a brother of Father Tony. Do you remember him.
Can we do anything about the non event of the internet Alumni Assoc.and the management of the website. I wrote to the president a few years ago .maybe I should call to the college when I am in Belfast next. ;)Very glad to hear that the reports of Sean's death are much exaggerated. :smile:
Bernie perhaps you could help me with some information. As I recollect the Gillespie who became the priest was the Albino and who managed pop groups. I seem to remember him in my class for French and something else. ;)
No Tony the priest was not the Albino, it was John. and he passed away last year
Can we do anything about the non event of the internet Alumni Assoc.and the management of the website.Yes, I think we can. I've just phoned the college to find out who to talk to about it. The helpful secretary told me that they were aware of the problem; that the alumni site is the responsibility of the Old Boys' Association; that the college's dealings with the alunmi website are handled by the burser Shane O'Brien or the principal Dr. Morrin. She even offered to put me in contact with the principal when he was a bit less busy but I refused on the grounds that he had more important things to do than hack a website.
Are you in Belfast . The least that can happen is that we have a drink together in the Antrim Rd premises. ;)First, I haven't yet heard from Jim or OBA but it's early yet.
First, I haven't yet heard from Jim or OBA but it's early yet.
No, I'm not in Belfast but not far away. I live not far from Liverpool and within ferry trip. I was there a few weeks ago visiting my mother on the Limestone Road. I didn't call into the OBA because they wouldn't have known me from Adam, and most of my teenage friends are long settled somewhere else.
OK, let's see what Jim Holland says about reviving the alumni site. I'm hopeful that the OBA will accept the offer of free labour. The site management can be done from anywhere in the internet.
Apart from that, I'm due to take my daughter to Belfast soon to remind her where some of her ancestors came from. If you've plans to be there, let me know. Even if we don't pass the OBA interview, that part of the world isn't short of drinking holes.
Eamon
Good luck with your endeavours. I knew the alumni site and when it was alive it worked well, sorry to see it die. I am a life member of SMCOBA and know the chairman, Vincent Hunt and treasurer Jack Smith very well. In fact I will be seeing Jack this evening and if you wish I can sound him out. It's a shame that such an institute as the college is not better represented on the internet. I will report my findings to you.
Will it be one Smith talking to another?? ;) We should if possible meet up at the Old Boys place on the Antrim Rd....all three of us and encourage the O.B. to act on the Alumni site. :(
I am a life member of SMCOBA and know the chairman, Vincent Hunt and treasurer Jack Smith very well. In fact I will be seeing Jack this evening and if you wish I can sound him out.Sounds like a good opportunity to try to get things moving. :smile:
There's a few of us about, even in the antipodes!! I might even go to the annual dinner on Friday, but whatever I'll try and get you as much information as possible. My tenure of study at the college was 1953-1959 and by means of a quick calculation you can determine that I am well into my 3 score. Unfortunately my energy level is rather low due to a few pathologies which act upon me, so I may not be of much use in contribution but I'll help wherever I can.
Smith 19...the priest who said Mass in the middle of China on the 175th Anniversary of the founding of the college was a Joe Houston who was at the college around your time. I commenced in 1959 when some great people left. I can remember Barney Mc Laverty and Joe Mc Williams leaving about 1959. ;)
Did not know Joe but Barney and I were in same year, Joe a little older. I have Barney to thank for introducing me to classical music in my 17th year when we were in the throes of Rock and Roll. Have you read any of his books? Joe has his own Art Gallery and still succeeds with the brush and palette! At a recent exhibition in Ulster Museum one of his works was on display at a starting price of £10,000!!! Needless to say I did not bid!! I missed Jack Smith this evening - yes he is my cousin and retired Professor of Computer Science at QUB. I will see him and Vincent Hunt and hopefully Jim Holland on Friday and will report back to you. Are you really in Australia, and if so where?
I will see him and Vincent Hunt and hopefully Jim Holland on Friday and will report back to you.Some confusion to be sorted out. I've just had a phone call from St.Mal's office. The lady tells me that they've now decided - contrary to what I was told last week - that the College is responsible for the alumni website that Jim used to run in his alumni officer days at the College. They intend to revamp and relaunch it by end/June/2011.
Some confusion to be sorted out. I've just had a phone call from St.Mal's office. The lady tells me that they've now decided - contrary to what I was told last week - that the College is responsible for the alumni website that Jim used to run in his alumni officer days at the College. They intend to revamp and relaunch it by end/June/2011.
Oh...ye of little faith.....of course I am in Oztralia. I live 24klms North of Cairns in the rainforest area. It;s the wet season and we have just experienced one metre of rain during February.
I don't really know Barney although we lived not too far away from one another. I have read some of his books and St Malachy's did have an influence on him. Tim Holland was in my class. Vincent Hunt would know my name as I was an insurance broker in Carrickfergus when he worked for the local council.
Joe Mc Williams is my 2nd cousin , I have just in the past two weeks discovered the connection between us and how it was formed. The skiffle group photo that appeared on the Alumni site was a classic that included both Barney and Joe.....good to talk to you...Sam. ;)
Just spoke to Vincent. Would you have also known the late James Noel Smith??
Just spoke to Vincent. Would you have also known the late James Noel Smith??
It's been a long weekend at their dinner I think :smile:
Some confusion to be sorted out. I've just had a phone call from St.Mal's office. The lady tells me that they've now decided - contrary to what I was told last week - that the College is responsible for the alumni website that Jim used to run in his alumni officer days at the College. They intend to revamp and relaunch it by end/June/2011.
I wasn't really bothered by the interview possibility. I should have used a smiley to indicate some humour. It just struck me as something that you might expect from a traditional golf club trying to decide who's good enough to join their club. :smile:
I went to AGM last evening and it seems they are hoping to relaunch website although the enthusiasm was not over flowing. The college do feature on Facebook so I think they rely on it to reach past pupils. Paul Sullivan is the man in harness. I raised the point about possible interviews being required for membership as it states on the application form, but they seemed to be unaware of such existence and if so it is never really used. Good luck with your pursuits.
I wasn't really bothered by the interview possibility. I should have used a smiley to indicate some humour. It just struck me as something that you might expect from a traditional golf club trying to decide who's good enough to join their club. :smile:
Regarding the disappeared alumni website, now I'm a bit confused again. My call from St.Mal's office left me with the impression that the College had taken responsibility for the alumni website and would supply the effort to manage it, so why should the OBA be enthusiastic or otherwise about something that isn't its responsibility? Maybe the OBA prefers to rely on the facebook facility and is happy to let the older website lapse? I suppose the easiest option is to see what happens at the end/June. I've avoided Facebook to date because it's something my daughters do to swap trivia with their friends, but now I'll have a look at it.
Many congratulations to Professor Jack Smith on being elected as President of the Old Boys Association. Well done Jack the family now has the distinction of having a Cardinal AND a president in it's ranks!!
Well done ....tell me ....is it a silly question but who is the Cardinal. ;) and which is more important. .I am in Belfast in June. .hope to meet you ::)
Are there any older members out there who may have remembered Cyril or Noel Moorehead?
Thanks Smith 19....you'll have to P.M. me and let me have your real name.
Dorothy when did the Mooreheads go to St Malachy's .I might be older than them. ;)
Cyril was in the class of 54, Wavy haired guy, fairly tall. I think he lived on the Antrim Rd. but I'm not sure.
Dorothy , Are you related to him?
Thanks Smith 19....you'll have to P.M. me and let me have your real name.
Dorothy when did the Mooreheads go to St Malachy's .I might be older than them. ;)
I feel guilty being on here. I should be sorting through that box of print outs that I retrieved from the loft.
No, I'm certain that he would have been older than you. How old do you think Cyril would be? Some one on this thread must remember him.
I feel guilty being on here. I should be sorting through that box of print outs that I retrieved from the loft.
No, I'm certain that he would have been older than you. How old do you think Cyril would be? Some one on this thread must remember him.
He was in the class that would have done Senior in 1954. In other words he would have graduated in 1954. In Cyril's case he might have done Senior also in 1953 and hung around to get better results for university admission. I don't live there but I seem to think that he did dentistry. Fr. Danny White in Glengormley was in the same year and would have known him as would Silver Brennan,Brasso Brennan, John McHugh, Fr.Tom Toner, Fr. Charlie Murphy, Paddy Mulgrew, Pete McKeever, Mick and Frank Murray.
The Smiths that I remeber had red hair. Is that your family?
There were some good teachers, a few of whom were excellent, but they were in the minority. Others have referred to the regime of casual brutality.In earlier postings I’ve read about pupils’ experience of violence from teachers. I have to say that that really wasn’t my experience of St.Mals. Maybe things had changed before my arrival (1965-72). There was certainly a use of corporal punishment that wouldn’t generally be tolerated today, but not casual violence. I’ve gone over a mental list of my teachers. Maybe my memory has simply failed me, but most of them never used corporal punishment to my recollection. McNally (French), Noel Conway (physics), Alec Cusick (chemistry), Noel Savage (maths), Doc Cunningham (Latin), Jimmy Fraser (Irish). Some would indeed punish, and in some bizarre ways, but not frequently and never without reasonable provocation in my recollection. Maurice Drinan (Tosh, Irish) would tug hair painfully. Big John Porter (art) used some sort of metre stick or rod to batter hands. Hugh McEvoy (English) delegated the act with his phrase “See the Dean, boy.” Gerald Gorman used a cane but I suspected even at my tender age that at that very early stage of his career he was unconfident of his authority over the class. Most of the punishment was given by the specialized agent, the Dean of Discipline, and very occasionally by the Boss Walter Larkin if your offence was one that took you to the general office. I was told years later that at least several of the Deans detested the job, but when you’ve taken a vow of obedience then you’re stuck with all aspects of the duty. There were certainly some rough yobs among the pupils and it’s not surprising that they attracted attention in a corporal punishment regime. There were also some disruptive boys who, despite passing the 11+, discovered at St.Mals that they really had no interest in academic work.
In earlier postings I’ve read about pupils’ experience of violence from teachers. I have to say that that really wasn’t my experience of St.Mals. Maybe things had changed before my arrival (1965-72). There was certainly a use of corporal punishment that wouldn’t generally be tolerated today, but not casual violence. I’ve gone over a mental list of my teachers. Maybe my memory has simply failed me, but most of them never used corporal punishment to my recollection. McNally (French), Noel Conway (physics), Alec Cusick (chemistry), Noel Savage (maths), Doc Cunningham (Latin), Jimmy Fraser (Irish). Some would indeed punish, and in some bizarre ways, but not frequently and never without reasonable provocation in my recollection. Maurice Drinan (Tosh, Irish) would tug hair painfully. Big John Porter (art) used some sort of metre stick or rod to batter hands. Hugh McEvoy (English) delegated the act with his phrase “See the Dean, boy.” Gerald Gorman used a cane but I suspected even at my tender age that at that very early stage of his career he was unconfident of his authority over the class. Most of the punishment was given by the specialized agent, the Dean of Discipline, and very occasionally by the Boss Walter Larkin if your offence was one that took you to the general office. I was told years later that at least several of the Deans detested the job, but when you’ve taken a vow of obedience then you’re stuck with all aspects of the duty. There were certainly some rough yobs among the pupils and it’s not surprising that they attracted attention in a corporal punishment regime. There were also some disruptive boys who, despite passing the 11+, discovered at St.Mals that they really had no interest in academic work.Wee Legs, I had resolved not to revisit the violence issue until I read your post.
The ready recourse to physical and unwarranted violence is summed up for me in an incident towards the end of my time at the College. My class was informed that, because the baize on a noticeboard in our home room had been damaged, we were all being levied a small amount to pay for the damage. I believed that the damage had been inflicted while another class were in our room, and I certainly hadn't damaged the noticeboard myself, so I refused to pay the levy.
Along with another pupil who didn't pay the levy, I was sentenced to a week's detention. Halfway though the detention, we were summonsed to Walter Larkin's office. The other guy told Larkin that his father had refused to pay the levy. He was dimissed. I hadn't told my parents what was happening, so my only defence was that I didn't believe the levy was fair. Walter's response to this was inflict six of the best.
Two days later, I was called out of class to find out why I hadn't been doing my detention. When I said that I thought that Larkin's punishment had ended the matter, I was disabused.
In view of other events in Belfast around that time, I still find some grim amusement in the fact that my very private opposition to collective punishment ended up in my being singled out for punishment in what was supposedly one of the top Catholic schools in Northern Ireland.
Mick McC - what a piece of work he was. One day I forgot my gym gear and was so scared of him that I used a compass to cut open my hand, giving me an excuse for not doing PE. :swoon:
You had more guts than me, stiofan.
We had a similar incident in my final year when some person or persons unknown trashed our classroom. We were all then kept in for detention five days running (unless of course the villains would own up or someone shop them) writing out 200 times each day something along the lines of "I must respect the property of
the College at all times blah blah".
I did tie four pens together to speed up doing the pointless exercise and so did a few others and in fairness to the teacher charged with supervising us, he chose to ignore that.
But I go back to the overall mediocre level of teaching. It was not until my daughter showed me that I realised algebra was easy-peasy. I was good at geometry (well done, wee Hughie) but my introduction to algebra was through an unfrocked PE Instructor who might have been a master in the gym but knew as little about maths as my big toe knows about snipe shooting.
Talking about PE Instructors reminds me of Mick McC who was unpleasant and sarcastic and given, from time to time, to try to drag students' hair out by the roots.
Wee Legs, I had resolved not to revisit the violence issue until I read your post.
I don't know which part of it is the more offensive: the suggestion that other people are making up stories of violence or the suggestion that, if their stories are true, they were either yobs or "had no interest in academic work".
St Malachy's almost completely destroyed my interest in academic work. Coming from a primary school in which learning was encouraged (we studied Latin in the 11 plus year, just for the fun of it), it was a shock to hit St Malachy's and discover that education was apparently about rote learning backed up by physical punishment. I only rediscovered the joy of academic work when I emigrated and went to a different school.
At that school, corporal punishment was very rare, and I was amazed that there was almost no violence between pupils (cf St Malachy's, were bullying was common - and, believe me, getting a lit cigarette pressed into your skin is not the kind of thing you easily forget).
Your time at the college overlapped with mine, and "casual violence" by teachers definitely occurred. As I've said in previous posts, I was slapped or punched at least three times that I can remember. As a lawyer, I can assure you that two of those assaults would have been regarded as criminal even in those days.
The ready recourse to physical and unwarranted violence is summed up for me in an incident towards the end of my time at the College. My class was informed that, because the baize on a noticeboard in our home room had been damaged, we were all being levied a small amount to pay for the damage. I believed that the damage had been inflicted while another class were in our room, and I certainly hadn't damaged the noticeboard myself, so I refused to pay the levy.
Along with another pupil who didn't pay the levy, I was sentenced to a week's detention. Halfway though the detention, we were summonsed to Walter Larkin's office. The other guy told Larkin that his father had refused to pay the levy. He was dimissed. I hadn't told my parents what was happening, so my only defence was that I didn't believe the levy was fair. Walter's response to this was inflict six of the best.
Two days later, I was called out of class to find out why I hadn't been doing my detention. When I said that I thought that Larkin's punishment had ended the matter, I was disabused.
In view of other events in Belfast around that time, I still find some grim amusement in the fact that my very private opposition to collective punishment ended up in my being singled out for punishment in what was supposedly one of the top Catholic schools in Northern Ireland.
I don't know which part of it is the more offensive: the suggestion that other people are making up stories of violence or the suggestion that, if their stories are true, they were either yobs or "had no interest in academic work".Stiofan,
Stiofan,
It certainly wasn't my intention to imply that others were making up their own history. I simply said that it wasn't MY experience. The remark about uninterested yobs was badly judged and could have been better explained, and again I didn't intend to imply that you had to be some sort of misfit to suffer at St.Mals. But I assure you that such pupils existed and I could even name some of them. They were kids who clearly had a brain and equally clearly wanted to be somewhere else. The guys I'm thinking of were disruptive from year 1 so it can't ALL be explained as the result of brutalization.
After I posted, some more teachers came to mind, and I acknowledge that they were licensed by the standards of the time to use a degree of violence that would be unacceptable today. I was perhaps lucky enough not to have any contact with them, and my academic interest was well nurtured. I've been luckier than you and others in my teachers.
I've already given an example of injustice so it's clear that the discipline regime could produce these events. This regime had a lot to do with the attitude of the clerical staff towards discipline. Recall that they had all taken a vow of obedience and therefore whatever happened by lawful authority was to be accepted. You may object that that shouldn't have transferred to the lay staff, but it was an organization led by priests and no lay teacher would have questioned the Boss's moral judgement.
I caused a couple of very minor stirrs in my 6th form by questioning this general attitude. On one occasion I wrote something to the effect that a general difference of opinion was to be expected between the pupils and the clerical staff because the latter had volunteered after much consideration for a particular way of life. This was written anonymously in a class's collection of essays. It obviously caused some discussion over the priests' dinner table because Dennis Newbury (who had been a pupil and was then a student priest) later raised the matter in a class discussion and was surprised that I readily admitted to being the author. I can't remember how the class discussion went from there, but I suspect that these occasions were deliberately set to acclimatize the newer priests to adolescent scepticism. On another occasion towards the end of my 6th form Wee Doc Cunningham was chewing the cud with a class when he idly asked who would be sad to leave the College. I tactlessly expressed the view that we'd been there for 7 years and were eager to see somewhere else. It was even more tactless than I knew at the time because a fair number of the pupils who stayed on to become priests with the intention of travelling to foreign parts to do great things in God's name in fact ended up doing routine jobs around the College and fairly locally. Vow of obedience again!
Again Stiofan, I didn't mean to imply that anyone who had an unhappy experience at the College was a misfit or a liar, although there ware certainly some people who clearly didn't want to be there. I acknowledge that some of the teachers behaved in a way that wouldn't be tolerated today, and that I was perhaps lucky to come into contact with only the better ones. ;)
A final remark about Mick. He definitely had a view on what constituted a good character, and if you weren't athletically inclined then he had little time for you. I was always one of the kids last to be picked off the wallbars to join the basketball team, so you can guess how he judged me. For 5 years I exercised resistance as passive as possible to his PE activities and then discovered in 6th form when it all became optional that I actually enjoyed jogging around the track. A late blossoming or just a perverse nature?
I do not really want to enter this discussion and no doubt there are many of us who could comment,Excellent suggestion!
I do not really want to enter this discussion and no doubt there are many of us who could comment, but it would be interesting to know your respective years of attendance. I enrolled in 1953 and departed in 1959!!
However on a more mundane subject and the answer to which still evades us!! Why was EIA Street so named??? Look back a few postings.
A quick google took me to
No idea why EIA St was so named - RayK
SJ
Many thanks for the information about Frank Gogarty. It may well have been him that I read about in the Observer around 1958. I was working in England and was no regular reader of that paper. I came across the article by chance. It included a large photo of the master David Kennedy.
I was at the school 1946 -51. I believe when I was about 11 I had a tooth pulled by a dentist called Gogarty whose practice was in the Duncairn Gardens. I lived a couple of streets away in Spamount Street. If I am remembering the name correctly it may have been Frank's father's practice. Your information about what happened to Frank is very enlightening. I never knew him but he sounds an admirable Irishman.
I do not raise many glasses these days but the next time I do have a pint I will raise it to Frank Gogarty. I wish his family every good luck.
Thanks again.
Hello SJ
I have lived in Hampshire in England for about four years after 45 years in a place called Solihull in the Midlands. I passed your house many times on my way to the Star of the Sea school.
Did you know James Frazer? He was a year older than me but we went to St. M's from the Star at the same time. He lived in the New Lodge Road just a few doors down from Trainfield Street. He was a studious guy. We would sometimes bump into each other after we left St. M. I think he was at Queen's then.
I cannot believe that the adverse comments about the teaching staff could ever have applied to him. I imagine he was an excellent teacher. Sad that he died recently I understand.
All the best
Finally cracked it Smith 19, the name "EIA". I said all along that it was derived from the initials of someones three daughters, well the someone happens to be a Capt Alworthy who named Alworthy after his family name and EIA comes from his daughters Eliza,Ivy and Anne. He was the builder of these Streets and possibly that area. I got the info from Joe Baker.
I do not really want to enter this discussion and no doubt there are many of us who could comment, but it would be interesting to know your respective years of attendance. I enrolled in 1953 and departed in 1959!!
However on a more mundane subject and the answer to which still evades us!! Why was EIA Street so named??? Look back a few postings.
Finally cracked it Smith 19, the name "EIA". I said all along that it was derived from the initials of someones three daughters, well the someone happens to be a Capt Alworthy who named Alworthy after his family name and EIA comes from his daughters Eliza,Ivy and Anne. He was the builder of these Streets and possibly that area. I got the info from Joe Baker.
What? You mean you still have hair at your age, I bet it's a syrup.
Thank God...I haven't slept for about a month??? :D Have a good Easter everyone. I am going on holidays to China and Europe , leaving Cairns on 21st May and will arrive in Belfast 0n 13th June.It's about four weekends away, 27 sleeps, or one more haircut ... ;)
What? You mean you still have hair at your age, I bet it's a syrup.
Desi does'nt have any hair and Kevins is a comb over so who did you steal yours from. :D
Ask Desmond...I have a great head of hair. .I have a booklet produced by the North Belfast Historical Soc with the history of Eia St but my wife has seen fit to hide it. ;)
Desi does'nt have any hair and Kevins is a comb over so who did you steal yours from. :D
Now you tell us about the book after all these months, did you never read it.
Finally cracked it Smith 19, the name "EIA". I said all along that it was derived from the initials of someones three daughters, well the someone happens to be a Capt Alworthy who named Alworthy after his family name and EIA comes from his daughters Eliza,Ivy and Anne. He was the builder of these Streets and possibly that area. I got the info from Joe Baker.Absolutely, totally and thankfully well done!! I felt it had to be something like that and could not go with the Saint EIA bogus. Just as sj remarks in his post I have also suffered severe sleep deprivation ever since the question was asked!! I was planning a visit to the new offices of PRONI to find the answer. Many thanks and who is "Joe Baker?"
Thank God...I haven't slept for about a month??? :D Have a good Easter everyone. I am going on holidays to China and Europe , leaving Cairns on 21st May and will arrive in Belfast 0n 13th June.It's about four weekends away, 27 sleeps, or one more haircut ... ;)
Absolutely, totally and thankfully well done!! I felt it had to be something like that and could not go with the Saint EIA bogus. Just as sj remarks in his post I have also suffered severe sleep deprivation ever since the question was asked!! I was planning a visit to the new offices of PRONI to find the answer. Many thanks and who is "Joe Baker?"Smith 19, Joe Baker is a local historian here in north Belfast. He has had loads of stuff published about our local history and loads of ghost stories. He writes for the Glenravel historical Society and does videos as well for them, I posted one on the New Lodge site last week (link) that he had done about the blitz.
Stiofan: I know what you mean. It had not changed a great deal by the early seventies and I have mixed feelings about the place. There were one or two teachers who should not have been allowed anywhere near young people. Unfortuntely they are dead now so I will not live out my fanasies about the retribution I always had in my heart to deal out to them when I got old enough.
Can anyone remember or know what happened to Margaret Bond? She was a geography teacher at the college @72/73, and she would have been mid - late 20s then. That I'm aware of, she lived on the Antrim Road somewhere. (Big road I know, but maybe someone remembers her?)
Stickyra, I have a feeling you and I know each other very well.
You're a teacher :D
If it is who I think it is money couldn't pay ya.
I have just stumbled upon this thread. Is it still active? No entries since 3 May?
Just in case, I was at the Ranch from 53 to 59.
That's a very pretentious name that you have chosen (http://belfastforum.co.uk/Smileys/excellent/wink.gif)
Thats rich coming from a Jesuit :girl_blum:
Maggiemay I hope I am getting the right generation. I went to Holy family Primary with Gerry O Toole, one of my best friends, and then on to St Malachy's with him in the early seventies. Is it the right Gerry? He used to live on Alexander Park Avenue?
Went there from 75 to 82. All in all very good memories. Although I got clipped a few times by Cassidy (Latin) and more than a few times by Rubber, the worst ever was being chased around the hall by Cavanagh (Drama) because I couldn't do a good enough impression of the "When shall we three meet again" speech in Macbeth. It turns out he is a distant relation of my wife, and believe me if I ever meet him again :angry2:
The better teachers were Wee Dev (Maths), Hugh McEvoy (Form Teacher), Jimmy Frazer (French) and Joe McFadden (Art).
I have just stumbled upon this thread. Is it still active? No entries since 3 May?Die bona tua sanctitas. I never heard "The College" referred to as "The Ranch". This title was given to Trench House and never used otherwise as far as I would know. So you were a pupil 53 to 59, and I was also and I remember you well for we knocked about together for a while. In fact during our "A" level year I suppose we saw more films than possibly during our remaining years. And did you not have the distinction of appearing in the Collegian of 1958 in both groups of pupils, Arts and Sciences?? No trick photography here!! Hope this finds you well Doc!! I have had to change my name from Smith19 to 19Smith so you can see my earlier postings.
Just in case, I was at the Ranch from 53 to 59.
Dominus vobiscum Smicker. Good to hear from you.
Sorry about the slip of the pen, we had been having a wee argument about the Ranch at Balmoral, it must still have been at the back of my head. The only Ranch I went to was, I think, the Regent cinema, called that because of the number of cowboy films it used to show. Or have I got that all wrong, memory not what it should be!
You are right, of course, about me appearing in both Senior III photographs in 59 Collegian (seems reasonable as I didnt actually atten d any of the classes) - pity the Alumni site is no longer available - some good old photographs of pupils and staff
Havn't seen you about Balmoral for some time. Let me know if you are going to be in this neck of the woods.
Keep well, love to Maggie. All the best Frank.
Got some more (or less) intact Collegian magazines from 1953-1962 and may try scanning them. Small beginnings-just 2 pages! I've put up the 1958 staff photo and names at
db.tt/BY4n7Y8
You need to stick http: in front of that as external links are frowned on...
The link seems a bit temperamental, I had to try downloading a few times while testing it.
I've added identification numbers as far as I could, similar to the way that by 1962 the magazine was using that system to identify students. Additions and corrections welcome.
The full link is
httpREMOVE://dl.dropbox.com/u/14547229/1958%20The%20Collegian%20pp4%265.pdf
which may or may not work better than the shortened link
httpREMOVE://db.tt/BY4n7Y8
Both work for me, obviously after removing REMOVE...
I've tried to "insert image" with this post but since it's actually a pdf
I doubt if that will help, I think it just inserts an icon. I'd prefer to stick with pdf as it's the handiest way of keeping together text and related photos, especially as the photos are halftone which I'm scanning as high resolutioin two-colour images, seems better than fuzzy jpgs.
So, is there any way of attaching pdf or other general files in this forum?
(http://www.belfastforum.co.uk/c:%5CDocuments%20and%20Settings%5CBreand%C3%83%C2%A1n%5CMy%20Documents%5CMy%20PDFs%20&%20Scanned%20articles%5CThe%20Collegian%201958%5CB%20&W%20scans)
This is getting to be a pain! People of our age need to take care of our joints...I am very sorry to be a pain but I would dearly like to view the magazines and sorry to be a pain again but -- how do I send you a message??? to send me an e-mail???
I tried another link site imagebam recommended elsewhere on Belfast Forum but again I got the message "Sorry, you are not allowed to post external links". Anyway, if dropbox doesn't work for you, imagebam mightn't either. Try inserting h ttp://w ww. before imagebam and remove the 2 extra spaces after h & w
imagebam.com/image/bf662e137845072
which is just for the picture and is a lot bigger than the pdf -- imagebam won't let me upload tiff which would be small. If that works I can do the names page as well.
Or if you send me a message I can just email you the pdf (I plan for it to grow...)
Anybody know of a way of attaching files of a few MB? Anybody else interested anyway?
This is getting to be a pain! People of our age need to take care of our joints...
I tried another link site imagebam recommended elsewhere on Belfast Forum but again I got the message "Sorry, you are not allowed to post external links". Anyway, if dropbox doesn't work for you, imagebam mightn't either. Try inserting h ttp://w ww. before imagebam and remove the 2 extra spaces after h & w
imagebam.com/image/bf662e137845072
which is just for the picture and is a lot bigger than the pdf -- imagebam won't let me upload tiff which would be small. If that works I can do the names page as well.
Or if you send me a message I can just email you the pdf (I plan for it to grow...)
Anybody know of a way of attaching files of a few MB? Anybody else interested anyway?
1953/54 Seior 2AWell done Expat. However these lads could give a few years to BSOH and myself as we featrue in the Junior 1 category on which I am working. By the way would you have known of my brother Gerard Smith or my cousin Jack Smith?
Front Row L-R
18 Tony Mooney
?
?
20 Frank Nurray
9 Joe Kavanagh
16 Paul McWilliams
23 Jim Quinn
7 John Curran
Second Row L-R
6 Johnny Comerton
?
11 Tony McCaughey
8 Fergus Jordan
?
2 Jim Brady
?
5 Seamus Campbell
19 Charlie Murphy
Third Row L-R
?
4 Pat Brennan
24 George Salters
14 Seamus(John??) McKenna
?
21 Sean O'Flynn
?
13 Danny McHenry
Well done Expat. However these lads could give a few years to BSOH and myself as we featrue in the Junior 1 category on which I am working. By the way would you have known of my brother Gerard Smith or my cousin Jack Smith?I'm sorry. I have a vague recollection of a guy with red hair called Smith but I can't recognize him in the Collegian pictures.
Collegian 1953/54I can only contribute one certainty - Senior 2C 2nd Row extreme right - Gerard Smith the big brother, complete with flashy silk American tie! and possibly on his right - ??Brendan Murphy who went on to the priesthood and married Maggie and me some 38 years ago!! Keep them coming.
Senior 2C
Front Row
?
?
?
?
?
1 George Abbot
?
?
24 Mick Murray
Second Row L-R
?
4 John Barton
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
Third Row L-R
?
?
18 Liam McKendry
22 Harry McQuillan
?
?
32 Peter Woods
?
20 Hugh McMullan
I've now uploaded the 1962 Collegian to
Anybody know when the Collegian cover changed from a nice creamy white to that vivid green?
This Collegian was for the 1953/4 school year
Senior 2
Front Row L-R
2 Andy Duffin
22 Raymond O'Connor
Danny White
15 John McHugh
10 Brendan McCooey
19 Frank Massey
?
Second Row L-R
27 Tom Toner
?
?
?
?
Cyril Moorehead not listed or numbered
?
Third Row L-R
5 Sean Hughes
8 Danny McAllister
?
?
?
?
?
Back Row L-R
?
?
9 Tommy McAloon
Danny O'Connor
7 Brian McAllister
21 Patrick Mulgrew
?
There are 28 in the picture. There are only 27 names listed. Cyril Moorehead is the missing one.
For the answer to that you should transport yourself back 57 years and go up to the College and ask an individual called Patch Kerr.
Why is Cyril Moorehead not listed?
FAO SJ
I did not pm you as I am not sure how to do so. Are you still heading to Belfast on 14th as previously stated. Would you still be interested in meeting up?
:hi: Expat I could go back 61 years and your description would fit like a glove!
Regards johnmc
I've now uploaded the 1962 Collegian toVery interesting to see a Collegian from 1962. 3 years before my time (65-72) but I can make some contact with it.
Very interesting to see a Collegian from 1962. 3 years before my time (65-72) but I can make some contact with it.
Sean Devenny was a lab assistant (which lab?) before moving into the office.
So we had a Cordon Bleu canteen supervisor? Maybe she left before my time. Cant say I ever noticed the benefit.
In later years I often wondered what Doc Cunninghams title related to. Doctor of Canon Law, if Wikipedia is to be believed (and often it isnt). I wonder if his learning was ever put to use in the College? Did he tutor the university students? Or discuss Roman intrigues with the bishop?
Interesting range of academic qualifications. Majority in humanities, minority in science, todays balance is about even. No PhD.s although some years later Gerald Stockman qualified (humanities again), one D.Lit. Big John Porter: didnt art teachers need a formal qualification in those days?
Was Elocution a real subject or was it invented to give Dickie Dynan a platform? Didnt he also have a job at the Christian Brothers? He was always trying to change the street accent that us urchins brought into his class. One lad Terry OBrien had a received pronunciation accent and was usually singled out as an example to copy.
Is the McSorley family connection with the College as long as the Conway connection? Michael father of Fred, my contemporary, and of Peter, the current medical advisor.
I recognise some of the boys in J3 year who were 6th formers when I arrived. Dennis Newberry, Jim Crawford, Tim Young. All founder members of the photographic society. Walking through the priests wing to the darkroom was a creepy experience for me!
By the way, all this Collegian stuff is what Jim Holland used to manage on the formerly official Old Boys site. A few months ago a lady from the College office told me that they were planning to revamp and relaunch in June/2011. Any progress yet?
:hi: Expat I could go back 61 years and your description would fit like a glove!
Regards johnmc
I enjoyed my 5 years at St. Malachy's and found most of the teachers honest, forthright and dedicated. They have provided me with a lot of funny stories that I have shared with a lot of folks over the years from the droll funniness of Walter Larkin to the nuttiness of SYD Dan McKeown to the absolute craziness of Johnny Porter. I didn't like every last one of them but I respected them.
I found Patch to be very fair, pretty socialist, even handed, ...and I was 6yrs old Johnmc 61 yrs ago. ;)
the droll funniness of Walter LarkinTell us more. In my time Larkin was a very forbidding disciplinarian figure. I don't recall any of my contemporaries reporting having an informal conversation with him. Even the boarders, who would be expected to see a different side of the staff, showed no warm feelings. Droll humour? Maybe the weight of duty changed him? When my parents applied for me to join the College, it was they who were interviewed by Larkin while I was sent out to the yard to amuse myself while they were instructed in how much homework I was expected to do.
Tell us more. In my time Larkin was a very forbidding disciplinarian figure. I don't recall any of my contemporaries reporting having an informal conversation with him. Even the boarders, who would be expected to see a different side of the staff, showed no warm feelings. Droll humour? Maybe the weight of duty changed him? When my parents applied for me to join the College, it was they who were interviewed by Larkin while I was sent out to the yard to amuse myself while they were instructed in how much homework I was expected to do.Just a couple of things.In the iceboxes Walter would push all the desks forward and would lecture while walking back and forth in the empty space behind us.
On the way out he said over his shoulder "do it once" and we could hear him giggling.Walter Larkin giggling! Now there's an image I never imagined! What did he teach before he became president?
When my parents applied for me to join the College, it was they who were interviewed by Larkin while I was sent out to the yard to amuse myself while they were instructed in how much homework I was expected to do.Geez, I'm really sorry you suffered this humiliation at the hands of Walter. At 12 years old every single one of us had a personal interview with the president of the College where he outlined the courses of study and the amount of homework that we'd have to do. I'm sure, in your case, it was an oversight.
Expat,In my time the iceboxes were a group of about 4 or 5 one-level classrooms that had been built behind the English school on the right (through the gap on the right as you go up the avenue). I never witnessed or experienced any wickedness in Walter.
By the icebox I take it that you are referring to the Igloo's or nissen huts.
Walter Larkin giggling! Now there's an image I never imagined! What did he teach before he became president?He taught mostly math. In my case it was third year Junior geometry and first year senior math. He prepared his students very well for the certificate examinations. I never had a problem with him.
Geez, I'm really sorry you suffered this humiliation at the hands of Walter. At 12 years old every single one of us had a personal interview with the president of the College where he outlined the courses of study and the amount of homework that we'd have to do. I'm sure, in your case, it was an oversight.I don't remember any interview (started in 1967).
Isn't this the protocol for every incoming high school student in every part of the world ?
Geez, I'm really sorry you suffered this humiliation at the hands of Walter. At 12 years old every single one of us had a personal interview with the president of the College where he outlined the courses of study and the amount of homework that we'd have to do. I'm sure, in your case, it was an oversight.
Isn't this the protocol for every incoming high school student in every part of the world ?
Barney Mc Laverty in his book of short stories " Secrets"Who publishes Mclaverty these days? Google tells me it's Blackstaff Press / Vintage but neither of those sites lists him in its author list.
Who publishes Mclaverty these days? Google tells me it's Blackstaff Press / Vintage but neither of those sites lists him in its author list.Cape, but why not ask him yourself: http://www.bernardmaclaverty.com/ (http://www.bernardmaclaverty.com/)
Cape, but why not ask him yourself: http://www.bernardmaclaverty.com/ (http://www.bernardmaclaverty.com/)
The story to which sj refers was read on Australian radio a couple of years ago. For some reason, they got a Free Stater to read it (and edited out a crucial part of the story). The producer couldn't understand when I complained.
In my time the iceboxes were a group of about 4 or 5 one-level classrooms that had been built behind the English school on the right (through the gap on the right as you go up the avenue). I never witnessed or experienced any wickedness in Walter.I was there 56-62 and these buildings were known as the "stables". The long classroom was divided into study compartments. As I recall we were allowed to smoke in the outside area. Rayk
:hi: Sam I,ve just gaught up with this thread today.You could be right about the affluent bit. The day after I had a substancial win at St Mals sport day in Celtic Park Larkin proceeded to cut me down in front of his maths class.The tall poppy syndrome maybe?Don,t know if it was also because I was a scholarship boy .Conway was ,I thought , a pretty nice bloke. On the whole I enjoyed my time at St Mals
Sean
:hi: Sam I,ve just gaught up with this thread today.You could be right about the affluent bit. The day after I had a substancial win at St Mals sport day in Celtic Park Larkin proceeded to cut me down in front of his maths class.The tall poppy syndrome maybe?Don,t know if it was also because I was a scholarship boy .Conway was ,I thought , a pretty nice bloke. On the whole I enjoyed my time at St Mals
Sean
"Dickie Dynan" ... And then I met Dick!My fairly brief College contacts with Dickie were his elocution classes when he persisted in trying to convert the Belfast inverted dipthong into received pronunciation. He probably wasn't entirely unsuccessful because at least one internationally known actor (Ciaron Hinds) must have some contact with him. My abiding memory of Dickie was to meet him and my dad sitting on the wall opposite the Harbour Bar in Ballycastle. I immediately went into polite schoolboy manners. I've often regretted not asking my dad about his Barrack Street CB pals (I'm guessing that was Dickie's history) but it's now much to late to ask the primary witnesses.
"Essays and Perspectives on St. Malachy's College 1833-2008, published on the 175th anniversary of the College, I obtained one from the Old Boys at the knock down price of £30.00!!!Do they hold a supply on the OB premises? I see that it's available fron several publishers, but I'll be in Belfast soon and it would be handier to call into the OB and pick one up.
"Essays and Perspectives on St. Malachy's College 1833-2008, published on the 175th anniversary of the College,I bought a copy from the College reception desk, £30. Very interesting reading! I was surprised at how many teachers spent their whole careers at the college. And apparently Walter Larkin played a mean fiddle in his spare time. There are many mentions of corporal punishment, which was abolished formally in Paddy Walsh's time.
hi bosh we all have seem to have deserted you. again many thanks for your collegians. my enduring thought is - looking at the staff qualifications - did you not have to have an educational qualification to teach at that time. as an earlier contribributer spoted johnny porter semms to have none, while lots of the staff seem to have degrees, did that deem enough in those days to enleash them upon us poor beings.
yes sj, couldn't agree more. a degree would perhaps signify that you know your subject but knowing HOW to teach your subject is an entirely different matter. lots of enthusiam and empathy with your students goes a long, long way. invariably if you liked a teacher and his/her methods, you were more receptive to their teaching. beating the pupils into learning at a place like st. malachy's should never have been an option.
I've just uploaded the 1959 Collegian, that's the last one that I possess. Reading quality is better because I took more time and effort over the scanning and processing, I won't bother and bore you with the technical details unless somebody asks. 1959 has an obituary written by Monsignor Arthur Ryan for Canon Duff - boy, is it full of flowery language! Ryan I think had a reputation as a great speaker, but it all seems very Victorian now.Good evening BSOH
About educational qualifications: the 1953 Collegian lists 11 HDipEds among 27 lay teachers (29 if you count the gym teachers McDermott and McCormack) and 10 priests with no educational qualifications; by 1962 the ratio seems worse, only 8 HDipEds among 30 lay teachers, zero among the 13 clerics. Of course, at the third level it's traditional for professors and lecturers to have absolutely no teaching training at all - the screwy professor stereotype is not all that far wrong in many cases.
From my days at Queen's, the impression I had was that first-year scholarship holders coming from St Malachy's were greatly out-numbered by those from St Mary's CBS, but that the attrition rate going into second year was much worse for St Mary's. Which we (unscientifically) attributed to the Brothers "bating" the St Mary's lads into academia in spite of themselves, while we got into Queen's under our own steam in spite of St Malachy's...insufferable gits! Indeed, at least one of my class switched schools after Senior I, using St Mary's as a kind of grind school, to maximise the chances of getting to university.
Of course the whole point about the CBs was that they were a teaching order, whereas a lot of the priests in the College would have greatly preferred being in a parish. Certainly the CBs were always ambitious for their pupils - somewhere around the house I have a Hardinge Street prospectus from 1911 where the principal bangs on and on about how a Catholic lad with a proper skilled trade can make as much as £2 pounds 14 shillings a week. They did have a great vision and did a lot of great work, it's a pity that some of them went rotten and tainted the whole Order.
just to iterate, what a great job BOSH did with all the old collegians. surely some old fellow collegians can supply the rest [i.e. missing years ]. if they can't upload them then you can be sure there are lots of folk out there on the forum who can help him/her. i'm sure i'm not the only one who would like to see lots more.
Thanks eddio and sj.
I was concerned, while scanning the mags, that nobody else would be interested (my own brother wasn't!) but there have been a lot more previews and downloads than I expected or hoped for.
I can see how often files have been accessed at address
http://www.box.com/s/grjm02my46fdpy35vtac (http://www.box.com/s/grjm02my46fdpy35vtac)
because I'm the "owner" of the box.com account, although I can't tell who's doing it.
So far there have been nearly 600 accesses, about a quarter of them downloads. Most popular is 1958, then 1962, then 1953. For some reason there's a lot less interest in 1959, which is also the only year where downloads exceed previews.
Anyway, a very satisfying level of interest, despite my fears during the wee small hours of scanning that I was becoming a nostalgic old nutter living in the past! (might still be true, but at least I'm not alone...)
If you enjoy the Collegians, spare a prayer in memory of Wee Joe Conway, who was the mag editor while I was there (and whose copyright I have been abusing...)
BSOH
Hi Brian,w ho wrote the book,? would like to read it. :-* :-*
One you should look out for is The Faloorie Man which is the tale of a young boy growing up in Belfast and the main character other than the narrator is his Father, Isaac McBride. He was actually based on my Uncle Isaac Magill, my Father's elder brother, who lived in McLeery St, near McGurk's pub. A good read, but a bit too personal for me to judge as literature.
Regards
Joe Magill
At the close of St Patrick's Day, the feast of the missionary who is credited with Christianizing this island, it might be a fitting time to take up sj's invitation to tell the tale of my renewed contact with Joe.
I didn't actually know Joe at SMC, but I made fairly slight acquaintance with him in QUB, and as it happens he appears with me and others in just one well preserved photo from 1961 outside the old (old) Students Union in Queens, showing a group about to depart a murky foggy Belfast (it always was, then...) for a Gaelic Society trip to Dublin. Fifty years on, I learned from sj that Joe became a Columban missionary and currently works in China. Sj marked my cards on what words not to write in emails to China (i.e. words relating to religion etc that would cause the message to be destroyed by the automatic censors), and I duly fired off an email to the address that sj gave me. To my surprise and delight I got a reply from Joe, in excellent Irish to boot.
Joe is in fact the only active missionary that I know. He's in and around my age, but there he is still toiling in the vineyard, while I am long retired. If you check out the 1954 Collegian, you'll see that the main article in it is by Owen O'Kane, an old boy of SMC, and a priest in the Maynooth Mission to China - I'm not completely sure, but I think that's the same as the Columban Fathers. Owen O'Kane's article was about his detention and expulsion in 1951 under the newly-triumphant Communist regime. Closing that particular circle, sixty years later, Joe and his colleagues are still continuing that work, work that most of us wouldn't have the guts or dedication to undertake. They really are heroes, the stuff of legend.
I feel I'm honoured and privileged to have encountered Joe all those years ago, however slightly, and to have renewed the acquaintance in the last recent months.
Joe Houston. Joe is now quite ill
Owen O'Kane has passed on
Do you remember Bob Hicks
Thanks to the good offices of HMcK, smith19 and his son, there is now a pdf of the 1957 Collegian atYes indeed I did not include the ads at the back. These efforts - mainly yours, could be regarded as labours of love, unfortunately mine did not go so deep as to endure and include the ads at the back. If you wish to complete I can send them on, just ask. Wonderful recollections about Joe Houston, I did not know him at college either, can you pinpoint him in any of the photos? Keep well.
http://www.box.com/s/grjm02my46fdpy35vtac (http://www.box.com/s/grjm02my46fdpy35vtac)
It's from a photocopy, so the class photos aren't as clear as one would wish, and the commercial ads after page 101 are not included. Still, it's a great addition to the resources.
Thank you, HMcK, smith19, and smith19-Junior!
Sadly I am 100% negative about my time at St. Malachy's College...(1956-61).liamo , are you sure you did not go to Methody??? :D
I was amazed to come across this Forum and discover that I am not the only one to have repressed memories of my time wasted..not spent..wasted there.
I remember my first day..full of enthusiasm...expectation..excitement...I was not a dumb kid by any stretch of the imagination..did very well in my Primary School..always coming top or near to top of my classes..also did exceptionally well in the 11+.
Then I had the misfortune to go to St. Malachy's. A School that operated on an atmosphere of violence, bullying, brutality, bigotry and fear. Most of the teachers and priests were slap happy. I would exclude Mr Laverty the Geography Teacher at the top of the stairs and Father Michael Dallat...a gentleman ..neither of whom subscribed to the culture of caning and strapping kids at any excuse.
Big Tosh..a man who could barely speak English never mind teach it...was allegedly banned from using the cane for allegedly breaking a pupils arm some years earlier. So he resorted to using his knuckles. And use them he did. McEvoy the Geometry Teacher was a delight to see every morning...he really lit up the classroom with his sour unemotional face and his first duty every morning without fail was to inspect the Homework. Woe upon any pupil who managed to get even one problem wrong and McEvoy would produce the Cane. I believe that this gentleman died fairly recently and I offer my sympathy to his family and may he rest in peace. I bear him no grudge..now..I did then. Fr Walter Larkin...parked himself at the top of the Avenue his cane swinging by his side...in rehearsal for dealing out corporal punishment to any kid who did not make it to the top of the Avenue before the bell stopped ringing. AS for Fr Maguire. I remember one time he did not turn up for class and as instructed ..when we had a free forty...myself and about ten other classmates headed for the Study Hall. After 10 minutes there a messenger was dispatched to "Get us back to the classroom" as Maguire had shown up. We were met by a snarling , furious Maguire who proceeded to dish out 6 lashes to each of us. When I protested my objections I got a slap across the face and a further 6 for my stance on Human rights.
Most of them thrived on an atmosphere of power and fear.
>:D . I do hope that the pupils of today are enjoying a much more reasonable, understanding and enlightened staff. Not due to but despite my time at St. Malachys I think I managed to counter their predictions for my future and become somewhat successful in life...Becoming General Manager for Ireland for a UK Insurance Company...on the Board of Directors of an International Reinsurance Company..a Best Selling Author and I like to think a reasonably proficient Broadcaster. It surprises me that people like Derek Davis , Martin O'Neill, Mike Bull and Eamonn Holmes also survived the indignities of this unenlightened environment to go on to success in their respective fields.
I did learn one valuable lesson at St. Malachy's. IF ever a teacher had laid a finger on any of my children at school, I would have had them in Court charged with assault before their feet could touch the ground.
Do I sound like I have a Grudge...animosity ..against St. Malachy's. Nope I do not. I feel sorry for them. I am simply and truthfully relating MY experiences of MY time at St. Malachys College. They were a product of their time. Society has learned how NOT to do things since then.
My best wishes and kind thoughts go to all other "survivors" of that period.
liamo , are you sure you did not go to Methody??? :D
.Becoming General Manager for Ireland for a UK Insurance Company...on the Board of Directors of an International Reinsurance Company..a Best Selling Author and I like to think a reasonably proficient Broadcaster. It surprises me that people like Derek Davis , Martin O'Neill, Mike Bull and Eamonn Holmes also survived the indignities.
Do I sound like I have a Grudge...animosity ..against St. Malachy's. Nope I do not. I feel sorry for them. I am simply and truthfully relating MY experiences of MY time at St. Malachys College. They were a product of their time. Society has learned how NOT to do things since.
Hi everyone. Just came upon this site. I was a Malachian from 1964-71 a great period to be there. Happy to share my memories if others are still looking in here. Is there a Facebook page? Also pity people aren't using their real names :-/Couldn't agree with you more - Paul Burns!
Cheers, Paul Burns.
liamo....lol.... naw . Methody was worser than anywhere ::)
Did they have Catholic Priests in Methody...? Naaaaw..am pretty sure it was St. Malachy's....I can laugh now but was traumatised at the time....wish I had gone to Methody....Ha...
Methody had the cream of Ulster rich and thick ;)Howdy tboy are you writing from experience?
No Tboy that was Campbell College. ;)
Any ex St. Malachy's guys out there?
I went to St Malachy's....from 1955 thru 1962
Off to China? Taiwan or People's Republic?
True, we all make big issues here about human rights but every country wants to do business with China and suddenly human rights go by the board. I see it here in Germany. .Business overrules ehtics and morals.
Hello there,
I was at St Mals in 53/54/55&56,
(does anyone know where I could download copies of old Collegians for those years)Patch Kerr,Fr.Wilson ,Frog and Dr.Kennedy are all names that I remember,an old pal of mine at that time was Paddy MacCartan,I think his da had a bookies shop,anyone know him.
Kev Mac
Hi, I'm Leonard Sudway's younger daughter, googled his name in a moment of boredom, and found this thread! We left in 1973 - 74 when he got a job as a translator on UK joining the then EEC.Your Dad taught me for "O" level French (in 1963) and he was one of the good guys. My big memory is of when we did the orals. I was always much better at written French than spoken and he made it as comfortable and encouraging as possible. I passed very comfortably anyway.
Da retired as a translator over 20 years ago, and stayed on in Luxembourg, where he lives with his lovely wife of 23 years, Erika.
He worked hard at the European Commission, learning fresh languages (Greek / Danish, plus?) and ending as a well respected translator / revisor.
He's now 83, still travelling, and with a fuller set of marbles than me on a good day.
He went back to visit St Malachy's a couple of years ago, and it seemed to stir up bitter sweet memories for him. Some of the priests sounded bad / sad / mad, but the lay staff sounded like a very nice bunch of put upon, bookish geeks!
I'm grateful he hoiked the family out of Belfast when he did - I benefited from an amazing secondary education, avoided any of the bigotry that was still about then, and met a much wider range of people than if we'd stayed.
One regret: leaving behind Patricia Mulholland's dance classes! Special plea to anyone who knows where I can get a copy of her biography, have seen copies for silly money on E-bay, but am not in the right tax bracket.
If anyone would like to get a message to Da, or any other Sudways, let me know, Ann.
Hi, I'm Leonard Sudway's younger daughter, googled his name in a moment of boredom, and found this thread! We left in 1973 - 74 when he got a job as a translator on UK joining the then EEC.Ann, I've PMed you re your Da and my parents.
Da retired as a translator over 20 years ago, and stayed on in Luxembourg, where he lives with his lovely wife of 23 years, Erika.
He worked hard at the European Commission, learning fresh languages (Greek / Danish, plus?) and ending as a well respected translator / revisor.
He's now 83, still travelling, and with a fuller set of marbles than me on a good day.
He went back to visit St Malachy's a couple of years ago, and it seemed to stir up bitter sweet memories for him. Some of the priests sounded bad / sad / mad, but the lay staff sounded like a very nice bunch of put upon, bookish geeks!
I'm grateful he hoiked the family out of Belfast when he did - I benefited from an amazing secondary education, avoided any of the bigotry that was still about then, and met a much wider range of people than if we'd stayed.
One regret: leaving behind Patricia Mulholland's dance classes! Special plea to anyone who knows where I can get a copy of her biography, have seen copies for silly money on E-bay, but am not in the right tax bracket.
If anyone would like to get a message to Da, or any other Sudways, let me know, Ann.
Hi, I'm Leonard Sudway's younger daughter, googled his name in a moment of boredom, and found this thread! We left in 1973 - 74 when he got a job as a translator on UK joining the then EEC.Hi Ann, your dad taught me Latin in my first year in 1953/4, I think it was his first year too, as a teacher. Part way into the year, an inspector called and recommended that there should be oral Latin as well as written, so that's what happened. We thought it was great fun, greeting each other with "ave" and leaving with "vale", "valete" for the plural, so we said vale to him and he said valete to us. Never had him after that (I didn't do French), but of course his nickname was "Suds", as much for his bubbly sandy hair as for his surname. I hope he is keeping well. To impress the younger generation, I often proclaim "nihil est ab omni parte beatum" but I'm afraid I got that from Wee Dan McKeown the maths teacher rather than from your dad!
Da retired as a translator over 20 years ago, and stayed on in Luxembourg, where he lives with his lovely wife of 23 years, Erika.
He worked hard at the European Commission, learning fresh languages (Greek / Danish, plus?) and ending as a well respected translator / revisor.
He's now 83, still travelling, and with a fuller set of marbles than me on a good day.
He went back to visit St Malachy's a couple of years ago, and it seemed to stir up bitter sweet memories for him. Some of the priests sounded bad / sad / mad, but the lay staff sounded like a very nice bunch of put upon, bookish geeks!
I'm grateful he hoiked the family out of Belfast when he did - I benefited from an amazing secondary education, avoided any of the bigotry that was still about then, and met a much wider range of people than if we'd stayed.
One regret: leaving behind Patricia Mulholland's dance classes! Special plea to anyone who knows where I can get a copy of her biography, have seen copies for silly money on E-bay, but am not in the right tax bracket.
If anyone would like to get a message to Da, or any other Sudways, let me know, Ann.
Bad start, only showing "First post" At St.Malachy's 1953-59. Hated every minute of those 6 years, Big Walter taught me Trigonometry and unbelievably made me love it!! I always found him very courteous and fair and he maybe favoured me as he had taught my brother Gerard a few years before at Maths and he was a real whizz kid. It has all changed so much since then but I have fond memories of the fellows I met there and some who are still friends. Anyone out there of this vintage??
Good day Pauline
Was your Grandad the brother of Gerry Rocks who was same year as myself. I believe he had loads of children. Thomas would have been a bit younger. Look back for the postings of BSOH as he has loaded on links to the college yearbooks where you will find class photos.
Can someone please advise me how to arrange for personal email messages? I have forgotten.
Hello Smiffey,
Juat click on the name of the person whom you wish to correspond with and you will see the option. .send a personal message. ;)
Many thanks sj for your prompt reply. Hope all is well with your good self.
Hello Smith 19...I love the cloak and dagger stuff. I have been talking to Joe Houston who was from the class of 57 or 58. Joe has been in China for almost 20 years. What a real shame that we don't have an Alumini Assoc as ex students such as Joe would be a great example to the rest of us as we travel throug life :DDon't mean to be so secretive but certain info which I may have is a bit personal and sensitive. Yes it is a great shame we do not have an Alumni society. I tried to work up some enthusiasm at last year's AGM and I'm getting nowhere. Why don't you or others try by lobbying SMCOBA, the chairman is Vincent Hunt whom I think you once knew, and the president is Jack Smith, my cousin, and he may as well be president of Christmas Island!!
Apologies to anyone who thought they were ageing premturely - those photos are from 1957, not 1959. Got confused between 09/57 and 09/59, all those numbers are hurting my head...
I can reminisce about the delights of the canteenThe Tapioca, Tee Gee. .You didn't mention the tapioca!
Hi Malachy
I have added your 1965-66 photos of Upper Sixth A/B/C to the collection at
https://www.box.com/s/grjm02my46fdpy35vtac (https://www.box.com/s/grjm02my46fdpy35vtac)
Keep up the good work. I echo your sentiments on a previous posting of yours regarding Leonard Sudway (Bubbles) and his teaching of Le Francais. Sadly a lot of his early good work on me was obliterated by a certain "Frog"!!! I still attend evening tuition classes!!! I failed that so called A level much to Leonard's disgust.
Amitie.
Thanks.
The layout must have changed in the 60s.Your description of the school layout was excellent and brought me back many years. Like yourself I was an ex Pat for 40 years but am now living in Republic of Ireland. I was in 2A in 1953 (a long time ago) Would like to share some more with you.
In the 50s, if you came up the main avenue in the morning you'd first pass the Patch patrolling the avenue for latecomers. When you got to the quadrangle the office was in the building on the left(west) of the quad. There was a main door in the middle of this building and if you went through you'd pass the office on the right and go straight through the back door to the canteen and the Crumlin Road,Most of the yearbook pictures of the period were taken just outside that back door with the students facing the Crumlin Road.
If , instead of going through to the canteen you turned left after going through the main outer door you could go up two flights and there were two classrooms, a small one and a bigger one, overlooking the canteen and the Crumlin Road.
Adela Street ran along the side of the avenue and one of the school soccer teams was called "Adela"
Butcher Lynch's physics lab was just inside the door on the northwest corner of the quad (looking from the Antrim Road).
Your description of the school layout was excellent and brought me back many years. Like yourself I was an ex Pat for 40 years but am now living in Republic of Ireland. I was in 2A in 1953 (a long time ago) Would like to share some more with you.
I read a few pages of the St Malachy's posts and was struck by the quality of writing throughout. Excellent spelling, grammar and punctuation is the norm across all the age groups. It would seem that whatever its faults it was getting something right!
I was looking at the SMC posts to see if anyone would mention sitting in The Coffee House after school, nursing a solitary cup of coffee. I remember SMC, Inst and Campbell boys and girls from Victoria used to congregate there. The staff were tolerant until it was nearly time for the next group to come in after work, and probably spend more money. One waitress used to come round and say, 'Knock that into yiz yousuns and get out of here. We always obliged
Where was "The Coffee House??"
The Coffee House was in Queen Street, on the left hand corner of the first block in. More or less opposite the side of the Athletic Stores. We thought ourselves very sophisticated as we debated world issues and philosophy. I think that was where I learned to drink coffee, as I had been raised in a tea drinking household.
How's it goin sam
McKeever, as you are obviously an Irish scholar can you please tell me what Cullybackey and Backnamullagh mean. My little dictionary of Irish place names doesn't help. Thanks in anticipation
Cullybackey hmmmm! Could be Coille=castrate bacach=cripple
Backnamullach Could be bac=obstruction mullach=top man
So if you want to be a tyrant yoiu could castrate the cripple and avoid obstruction of the top man.
Civilised folk don't.
Don't quote my interpretation. :D
it always frustrates me that our language teaching is so woeful here that 5 years after finishing school most people would be hard pressed to even ask for directions in their GCSE language, never mind hold a conversation.
I thought the 'Vick' was a corruption of 'vocht' old, as in the 'Shan van vocht' or the poor old woman, which I believe is an emblematic name for Ireland.You could well be right. Don't take my translation as definitive, my last time in an Irish class was 40 years ago. By the way, the well known Irish writer Flann O'Brian, aka Miles na gCopaleen, born Brian O'Nolan, detested the self-pitying 'Shan van vocht' image and let his uncommonly caustic satirical talent loose in The Third Policeman and elsewhere. His regular pieces for the Irish Times, where "the brother" holds forth on every major problem of the world, are very funny, but The Poor Mouth has a very bitter and satirical conclusion.
Who's Tosh?Tosh was a long serving teacher of Irish at the College. For the 175 year anniversary of the College a collection of historical essays was produced. One of them was written by Gerry Stockman, one of Tosh's many pupils, and later prof of Celtic Studies at Queens. Stockman credits Tosh with 38 years at the College. I was taught by Tosh for 2 years and I don't recall him ever cracking a single joke in class. Not that he was miserable, but just that no classroom time was to be wasted on trivia. Even when one toerag asked "what's miniskirt in Irish?" he was given the translation.
Thanks BBJ. I had heard birch trees as a possibility before, so your corroboration is helpful. There's definitely a summit, and if there weren't any birch trees when I came here, there are now as I've planted a few over the years. :P SMC teaching vindicated!
Who's Tosh?
Tosh was a long serving teacher of Irish at the College. For the 175 year anniversary of the College a collection of historical essays was produced. One of them was written by Gerry Stockman, one of Tosh's many pupils, and later prof of Celtic Studies at Queens. Stockman credits Tosh with 38 years at the College. I was taught by Tosh for 2 years and I don't recall him ever cracking a single joke in class. Not that he was miserable, but just that no classroom time was to be wasted on trivia. Even when one toerag asked "what's miniskirt in Irish?" he was given the translation.
If I get my scanner working soon I'll post Stockman's essay on Tosh.
Chattie,
I do something similar and enjoy the forum to an extent. Have you kept in contact with the S.M.C. people? ;)
I have nothing but good memories of Tosh, Colm Beckett and Gerry Stockman. Now Purdy. .there's another story.
Was Tosh the one who always wanted to tell the class the difference between bullocks and bulls?
An Béal Bocht, The Poor Mouth was one of the best books Myles na gCopaleen penned. He was extracting the urine of Irish writers from the Gaeltacht like "Máire", Seámus Ó Grianna. The book is a classic and not a bitter ending.OK, the parodied writers are unfamiliar to me and I may well have misinterpreted the sad ending. I'll read it again (in English, my Irish is long gone) and look more closely.
OK, the parodied writers are unfamiliar to me and I may well have misinterpreted the sad ending. I'll read it again (in English, my Irish is long gone) and look more closely.
On a different topic, what were the circumstances of that "40 Bliain ag Fas" film? I'm guessing that Cathal's TG4 influence organised the production facilities, but considering your unflattering memories of the methods of discipline I'm a bit surprised the modern College gave you four the free run of the place. I know that they can't deny historical fact but they don't have to publicise it on TV. What was the deal with the College?
I believe that Brian Moore was due to give a lecture at the College but died before it could happen. Now that would have been hearing, if only for the noise of people rolling in their graves!
Hello, I stumbled on this forum. I was at St Malachys from 1960 to 1965. Anybody else here from those years ? My name is David Morris, which is fairly easy to guess from my user nameHi David - I think I remember you - I was there from 60 - 63. jnr 1a, 2b ,3c - a pattern was emerging so I left to do an apprenticeship... my name is mick eccles
hello there . like many others i am indebted to BOSH for his collegians. but i have to say i remember the place with some mixed feeling. yes some of the teachers were fine e.g paddy bradley but what about lefty lenigan? [ and others] he slapped every single day [and seemed to enjoy it] i was there. did he ever stop to think it was his his teaching was at fault? of course some lads have posted he was great to have a drink with - but it didn't seem like at the time. i left st. mac's affer 2 years and one of the reasons was lefty. i didn't feel relaxed in the classroom because of him. many years later i had just had a meeting with the the st. mac's heirachy, [for my son who was entering the college] and was walking down carisle circus and who came walking past but the boul lefy[brushing my left elbow - what is that about little men?] after 30 years i still wanted to spit in his his eye. nuff said.Hi - just found this forum and note your comments re Lefty. Apparently everyone thought him a great guy but I know better. I was there from 60 - 63 and he never taught me, but took some sort of instant dislike, so that he 'pulled me' every time he saw me - still dont know why. Anyway, a few years later , I think I was about 18, one Saturday I was in Mooneys with a few friends and who walks up to me but Lefty, saying 'I always knew you'd end up a cornerboy'. Now bear in mind that I was never in any of his classes, and this was in front of my friends - so I proceeded to tell him what I thought of him and asked him nicely if he would like to try it now.( as you do ) He immediately called the barman and asked him to put me out. I still remember the reply. " name'a 'jases if we threw out every wee lad that wanted to give you a dig we'd need a bouncer"
Old age encroaches, Sam. :)
I find the foums white background too glaring and
I need to magnify------AND I struggle to see the keyboard.
No need to use a magnifying glass
on the forum, just hold the control
key and press the plus sign that
enlarges the print as big as you need
it and to reverse back to smaller print
use the minus button. :read:
Never could understand why teachers
used those bamboo canes. Some of my
elementary "lay" teachers used them.
I heard my brothers talk about some
"christian brother" teachers throwing
the blackboard erasers. ???
~ Bridget
Old age encroaches, Sam. :)
I find the foums white background too glaring and
I need to magnify------AND I struggle to see the keyboard.
it is possible to reset the font in the control panel :)
Throwing the blackboard eraser was common practice Bridget.
The Brothers used a stiff leather strap for using on the hands of pupils (I think it had a special name)
Some damage to students was done in the name of education!
Thanks sj I didn't know that.
I just replaced my laptop with
a more updated version with
all the latest apps so I have a
lot of new stuff to learn :D
Anyone remember Willie Begley who went to St. Mal's 1948/49 from St. Pat's CBS.
I was in the college from 1949-1954 and don't remember Wille Begley. I did the 11+ in 1948, the same year as you but had to wait until 1949 because Jakie McMullan said I was young and admitting me would deny an older guy a place.
If you remember the 1948 11+( the first year given) they had a section on comprehension based on Baron Munchausen's tall tales. I had never heard of him. Maybe that is why I still remember it after all these years
Hi Expat ,
Thanks for your reply, Willie Begley was my best pal at St. Pat's CBS. We both did the 11+ in 1948, and both wanted to go to St. Mals. Bro. Byrne talked me out of it and persuaded me to go to St. Mary's. Willie stayed with original choice , and we never saw each other again.
For years I regretted changing my mind, but after reading some of these posts on here, I'm beginning to think he did me a favour.
As for Willie, I wonder what happened to him ? Perhaps he left after a year, or his family moved away ?
It's a shame, looks like I'll never know.
Thanks again for your reply,
Regards, Sassidge.
Thanks for the information Expat,
Sassidge,
I took a quick look at my copy of the 1952 Collegian. This was published Christmas 1952 and students were photographed in their 1952/53 class.
Willie Begley was in Senior 2C and it would have been his last year before doing Senior in 1953.
I'm off to Salzburg, Vienna and Prague tomorrow, When I get back I'll try to scan the class picture and, if successful, you'll be able to pick out Willie. Unfortunately the names of the students in the class are listed separately from the picture. I remember quite a few of his classmates because they hung around for another year to improve their Senior for university entrance.
At least now you know he went the whole 9 yards at the college.
BTW , I can't understand many of the complaints about the college. I personally have good memories of my time there and have enjoyed remembering them and sharing them with my children and grandchildren. I can't say that I liked every teacher/ priest there but, in the main, I found them fair and I was able to tolerate the very few that I didn't like. In later life I had friends from St. Mary's, Methody and Inst. and didn't hear that their experiences were significantly different for that period.
What happened to Bill Lowry?? I remember he was in his first year teaching at the same time as I started in 63. He taught us French in the first year.Hi jj48
Hi, I've just found this site. Fascinating. Leonard Sudway is my dad. He's alive and well in Luxembourg - I'm going out there in a couple of weeks for his 85th birthday bash. Stiofan, do you have a sister Barbara? If so, I was in her class at primary school.@hblancha, the answer is Yes. That wasn't the only family connection, so I've PMed you.
Hi, I am a new member and my name is Laurence Forrester.My brother Paul and I attended the college between 1950 and 1955. If anyone remembers us I would love to hear from you.Paul passed way recently after a short illness fro lung cancer.
Hi, I am a new member and my name is Laurence Forrester.My brother Paul and I attended the college between 1950 and 1955. If anyone remembers us I would love to hear from you.Paul passed way recently after a short illness fro lung cancer.
Hi laurencef, I did not go to St. Mal's but I have been trying to find out what happened to a primary school friend of mine who did, Willie Begley, who would have been there same time as you. Did you know him ?
I'm sorry for your loss.
Hi SassidgeHi BSOH thanks for your response. could be the man ! I wonder what happened to him. Love to know if he's still around. We were best pals at primary school.
Check out Collegian magazines 1953-1960 + 1962 at
https://app.box.com/s/grjm02my46fdpy35vtac
If you're interested, download them, as they may not stay there permanently.
The only Begley I can find listed is a Thomas Begley, who appears in lists from 1957 onwards. Unfortunately he doesn't seem to be identified in any of the photos, but presumably you'll recognise him if that's your man. Wouldn't worry too much about the Thomas/Willie discrepancy...
Laurencef, I'm sorry for your loss. I see your name (but not Paul's) in several of the the Collegian mags mentioned above.
(http://i57.tinypic.com/2nisgw6.jpg)
Wille Begley is listed in this class in 1952
Back Row: Peter Woods second from left
John Barton -second from right.
Middle Row -8 guys standing:
Danny O'Connor -fourth from left
Mick Murray- second from right.
G Curran--center front
J frazer--right end front [ brother of James Frazer -st mals teacher ]
trainor extreme right--back row
Any of St Malachy's former pupils haveThe name of the sweet shop opposite St.Malachy's was Kearns,the name of the sweet shop at the corner of Cranburn st. was Farmer's,I lived in Lincoln Ave.
memories, stories of the sweet shop opposite the gate?
The Currans had another brother Ray....but I cannot remember whether or not he went to St. Malachy's.One of the Curran's went to St.Mary's C.B.S in Barrack st.
Cassidge was Billy Begley from Larne.? ;)
Have a great New Year ?
[Hi sj.
Thank you and best wishes to you and yours as well.
Willie Begley was a Belfast boy, was with me at St. Pat's CBS Donegall St.
He went on to St.Mals. and I went to St. Mary's and we never saw each other again.
I am feeling the need now to look up old friends, time being of the essence.
Regards,
Sassidge/quote]
I came across this forum by chance this evening and spent a fascinating hour or so reading the posts on St Malachy's. I was there from 64 to 72 and like many others I can't say that many of the memories are happy ones. I too remember the abuse meted out by some of the priests/teachers particularly a maths teacher called Cavanagh who was a real brute. I agree with the positive comments about other teachers like Suds and Wee Barney. Real gentlemen. Somebody also mentioned Owen Roe O'Neill who was in my class for a while. A nice lad and a handy footballer just like his big brother!
Maybe he just felt like Moses.
Moses are you still in the North of Ireland. ? I was a friend of Owen Roe's brother Paddy and I was able to find where he was a Priest but recently he seems to have disappeared. .Dp you know if he is still with us ? :) Paddy was at the college from 1955 to 61 and then was in the wing.
Maybe indeed sj... A cousin of mine went there about that time, he was George McCreesh, do you recall the name by any chance ???
Yes indeed.
f I remember correctly he had a business around Glens of Gormley? Is that the same person :)
Hi, I am a new member and my name is Laurence Forrester.My brother Paul and I attended the college between 1950 and 1955. If anyone remembers us I would love to hear from you.Paul passed way recently after a short illness fro lung cancer.Hello Laurence, I'm your brother Arthur's daughter in law.
Lefty, he gave me one and sixpence for the quickest declension of porter (the verb not the drink).
I remember Bronco and Gorky well but can you help me out with Pro, please? By the way that's a cracking photo.
I believe my grandson is destined for St Malachy's in the near future. I got quite a cold reception from my son and his wife when I told them my time there in the1960s had been a dreadful experience. I explained to my son that my period there had been the reason he was sent to a different school, "No way was he being sent to the school I went to!". However when I did a little research I realised St Malachy's is a totally transformed school and I would be quite happy for my grandson to attend it. How times change!Yes, but is the head teacher still called, "The President"? ???
The head of St Malachy's college is now a female and it is a much changed place ...the old attitude has been discarded to the waste bin and it is a much improved place to be associated with as are all schools. I think the problem was that many of the teachers were priests but not all were sadistic people. :) and not everyone had a bad timeGlad to hear that. :)
Glad to hear that. :)
Yes. 1965 to to 1970. The 5 unhappiest years of my life. I got my self esteem back thanks to St Mary's CBGS, Glen Road where I did my A Levels. I have posted before on this thread and if you look back you will see how bitter I am about those lost years. :(
Marshmallow did you go to St Malachy's :o
Wow, 13 posts inside 2 hours, after nothing during about six months!
The number of posts reflects a conversation. If we were all seated round a dinner table with a glass or two, it would be a lively exchange. It's good to talk.
I'm curious as to why it matters if the top guy in a college is called "the president", "the principal", "an taoiseach", "the heidyin" or whatever - aren't they all basically shorthand for "the buck stops here"?
To answer you, it mattered to me because to myself and others I know, it smacked of self-aggrandisement or even megalomania. Still does, so I'm glad it's a more humane title now. Respect in life is earned - it isn't an entitlement or right conferred by adoptimg a grand title.
Maybe we can take it as a given that some were miserable at SMC half a century ago, and some have reasonably good memories of the place...the crushing negativity of going on and on about how bad it was doesn't serve many useful purposes at this date, for most of us. Just because we share experiences from there doesn't mean we support, or supported, the bad eggs. During my life after SMC, I have encountered lots of horrible people, and lots of wonderful people too. Get over it and move on.
You have no right to tell me how to deal with my hurt. I will though assume your statement was made with good intentions. 😊 The useful purpose is for me to get it out of my system even after all this time. As to getting over it, I cannot forget or forgive. It was the CBGS that restored my faith in the system and enabled me to achieve and be the student that my 11+ results had promised. SMC broke my spirit and self confidence. Why is it important today, some 50 years on? Simply because I had two sons amongst my children and now have grandchildren too. Whilst they are my childrens' concern, not mine, I do worry.
I'm glad for you that you seem to have come through unscathed or if you were affected, you got over it and moved on as you say. But don't tell me how I should feel.
As Reinhold Niebuhr nearly said, "God, grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked anyway, the good fortune to run into the ones I do, and the eyesight to tell the difference".
It wasn't a matter of liking or disliking certain individuals. For me it was a matter of real physical and mental cruelty.
Just for perspective, I have waxed lyrical about the CBGS and I recognise fully that there are former Christian Brothers pupils out there who suffered greatly at their hands. I take nothing away from their stories or pain. Everyone is different. At least the Brothers apologised.
Yes sj, I felt that some boys got treated better if they had prominent families. I won't repeat my old posts but it was clear to all of us and sadly accepted which reinforced the negative self image that some boys, including me, had.
I have to go now as I am meeting the Mayor of Brisbane shortly?
My meeting was profitable . Have a friend who is very Irish to the extent that he doesn't recognise that people who were transported to Australia should be called convicts. He goes to the odd meeting on Irish affairs at Westminster and meets the Irish ambassador and are on 1st name terms. During an informal meeting at Westminster he found himself sipping beside a man who although he introduced himself Noel didn't catch his name and it was only at the end of a very interesting long conversation that he found that he had been talking to the President of Ireland. :D
Maybe we can take it as a given that some were miserable at SMC half a century ago, and some have reasonably good memories of the place...the crushing negativity of going on and on about how bad it was doesn't serve many useful purposes at this date, for most of us. Just because we share experiences from there doesn't mean we support, or supported, the bad eggs. During my life after SMC, I have encountered lots of horrible people, and lots of wonderful people too. Get over it and move on.Speak for yourself. I have found the discussion on this forum very useful, if for no other reason than that it has made me realise that I wasn't alone in regarding the College as a place where young kids were routinely humiliated, both physically and mentally.
As Reinhold Niebuhr nearly said, "God, grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked anyway, the good fortune to run into the ones I do, and the eyesight to tell the difference".
Speak for yourself. I have found the discussion on this forum very useful, if for no other reason than that it has made me realise that I wasn't alone in regarding the College as a place where young kids were routinely humiliated, both physically and mentally.
And it isn't really that easy to "get over" the experience of years of being made to feel completely worthless. Eventually, you internalise that feeling. In my case, I felt such a failure that I was terrified of telling my parents what daily life at the College was like for me - even when teachers punched or slapped me around the head.
Objectively speaking, I can see that there were all sorts of reasons for the toxic atmosphere I and others experienced - inadequately-prepared teachers (some of whom should never have been in a classroom), inadequate resources, too many students, the historical legacy of Catholic oppression, etc.
Unfortunately, when I was at the College (1967 onwards), this shambolic (to put it diplomatically) state of affairs coexisted with the College's image of itself as a great educational institution. That delusion prevented it from recognising and addressing its many problems and failings. The institution survived, of course, but many of us are still damaged to some degree.
As that anonymous Jesuit nearly said, "Give me the boy until he is 17, and I will show you the man."
These discussions are useful and being held by many Christian organisations. However the thread should not be all doom & gloom as many, many people had a most acceptable time at S.M.C AND EVEN THOUGHT THAT THE FOOD WAS GOOD. :D
,i remember myself being trailed by the hair and often aged 7 she was a right bitch
My son went to St Malachy's,i dont understand how these teacher's got away with he things they did,i remember myself being trailed by the hair and often aged 7 she was a right bitch
no sure it was just normal at the time
Dot,
However Dot...Did this hair pulling happen at St Malachy's college to a girl and if not why is it being discussed on the St Malachy's College thread??? :o
I've always thought that there's no problem (in theory, at least) with a small amount of corporal punishment, judiciously administered. On the other hand, it also seems to validate the slippery slope argument: after being on the receiving end of the cane and the strap at primary school, I didn't think that there was anything unusual about the escalation of punishments - slapping and punching - that I encountered at St Malachy's; and I suspect that, having been reared in that system themselves, many of the staff (themselves Old Boys) didn't think it unusual to dish it out when they became teachers themselves.
I remember in my primary school, the cane and strap were the normal means of corporal punishment but one teacher, good though he was as a teacher, used a small snooker cue as a cane. No one questioned it. We accepted it. So when we were older in St Malachy's, the marked increase in physical contact with punishment (Cane, strap, fist, verbal abuse), for the slightest reason was also normal.
The solution is to not drink whilst posting?? :) I was near you 3 weeks ago. ??
what do you mean near me ?? :)
Well I don't know how far I was away from you , but I was in England. At Cambridge & Oxford & London. :) Switzerland & Spain??
However Dot...Did this hair pulling happen at St Malachy's college to a girl and if not why is it being discussed on the St Malachy's College thread??? :o
I didnt say i went to st malachys college i said my son did,i went to holy rosary sunnyside st were the hair pulling etc happened,you can ask me yourself dont need a third party to make it aware.Also how could i have went to st malachy's,its an all boys school and still is.
The solution is to not drink whilst posting?? :) I was near you 3 weeks ago. ??
Think you shouldnt make assumptions on people.Think before you speak in future i guess
Here is your smile >:D Ta
I went to St Malachy's from 74 -77. What a terrible place it was. As a secondary school teacher I look back with a mixture of disbelief/sadness at the way children were treated in that place. My memories are ones which are deeply unhappy. I remember the Latin teacher, whose nickname ironically was Happy, whose classes I feared so much that I often felt physically sick as we lined up outside his room. I remember the cane tapping on the desk in front of me as we did Latin verbs. I remember the canings from him and others. So many of the teachers then should never have been let near youngsters. One abiding memory is being late for school because of a bomb scare. Our bus was diverted so there were quite a number of us late. We were met at the top of the avenue by the Dean and someone else (a long time ago) and caned for being late - through no fault of our own. The President was Walsh. A detestable man who seemed to have a permanent sneer on his face. He set the tone very effectively for the place. There were a few teachers who stood out because they showed some signs of common decency to the kids - Mr Soetens (Sooty) the German teacher, Poe the Geography teacher, Mr Maguire(I think) the Art teacher. The English teacher was just out of training college and liked to throw his weight around -looking back it is clear that it was to with his lack of confidence. I entered that school as a child who loved books and had no problems with learning. However, by the time I left the place I had dropped like a stone academically. I had lost my confidence due to the daily diet of being demeaned by teachers. I also suffered from bullying by a couple of lads whose names I still remember. However, pastoral care was non-existent in St Malachy's,so you just suffered in silence.I wentsame time as you.Was mates with joker Taylor,Paul Roberts bunt Cunningham billy mc clelland paul Steele Hated that school,toughened me up though
We were intimidated out of our house in 1977. Our family moved to Downpatrick. On a Friday I was in St Malachy's and on the following Monday I was in St Patrick's HS (the Red High). What a change. The school was a revelation to me. Teachers treated the kids as if they were human beings, not as if they were something which had stuck to their shoe. I improved academically very quickly. I was happy.
I think that many of the people "teaching" there were damaged. They themselves were the products of a repressive Catholicism which valued conformity and obedience over everything else. As I reach my mid 50s I pity them more than anything else.
What about Brendan Harvey, Sam. HE came from the shipyard. [censored]!
I know Jimmy Frazer is dead, and to the best of my knowledge, Lefty passed away a few years ago? ???I knew Brendon McMullan as a primary school teacher in St Teresas. He taught us in a parish hall beside St Agnes church. He had a split personality then also being nice to most pupils but routinely physically abused 3 boys jimmy Mulgrew being his main target. Lifting him up and throwing him against the wall.
I don't know if it was the same McMullan but I recall in RE we were discussing the Schism and I said something about the competing Popes and he completely lost it, ran down the classroom, grabbed me and threw me out.
Such sweet memories
(http://www.belfastforum.co.uk/webkit-fake-url://baf2046e-01a0-4126-bd00-6c4f36bac9a4/imagejpeg)Instructions given by Chris at
I've been trying to post the class photograph of 1971-1972 Upper VIA featuring Jim and myself but to no avail. Does anyone know the procedure ?
Regards, Paul
What about Brendan Harvey, Sam. HE came from the shipyard. [censored]!
Some of you will remember a crazy elderly arts teacher. He didn't use a strap. He used a chairleg. I was afraid because I wasn't good at art but I did try.John Porter was a (the?) art teacher at that time. I don't remember his ever using a chairleg; in fact, I don't remember anything about art classes at the College at all, apart from some incidents involving Porter and his undoubted irascibility, which, in retrospect, are quite sad.
Was a pupil at the college from 1964 until 1971. Have very clear memories of all the teachers, the physical layout of the school and the unique relationships between boarders and day boys. Survived it nonetheless.
I am looking for late 50's to early 60;s x-students.I was there ‘56 to’63
If the chant had anything to do with a certain member of the office staff, then I do. Looking back on it now, it was pretty cruel to single out someone who was just doing his job, although at the time it was funny. It's lucky that we grow up, really.
So, does anyone from 1970/71 remember 'Malachy's for Mexico' chant (the All-Ireland GAA Schools Football Final) in Dublin, against a school from Cork, I think? (we lost!).
I started in 1958 and finished in 1964.
Hi Brian, good to see you're still going strong!
Just signed up to this forum. I was at SMC from 1966 - 70. Mixed feeling about the school and teachers. I remember a few names from my class and year....Sean Magee, Kieran Crossey, Paul Maguire, brothers John and Paul Dick, Edward Armstrong, Malachy McGowan....and of these ring bells with anyone?Malachy McGowan from sunny Carrickfergus ?
Malachy McGowan from sunny Carrickfergus ?I was at SMC from 1968 for 3 years and while I have some very unhappy memories, I have a few fond ones also. I don't think I liked any of my teachers and as for the priests? Inept bullies and would be snobs. Malachy and Edward were my older cousins. I lived in definitely not sunny Carrick I have a vague recollection of the Dicks. Did they have red hair? Where were they from?
Was at SMC from 1969-76. Have noticed that stickyra, sj, marshmallow and one or two others might be of my vintage. Generally stayed under the radar, so have only a few horror stories to impart, but lots of good/funny stuff.
So, does anyone from 1970/71 remember 'Malachy's for Mexico' chant (the All-Ireland GAA Schools Football Final) in Dublin, against a school from Cork, I think? (we lost!).
Don't remember the chant but remember the match and the disappointment. I think I even remember the goal that sank us ??He did, indeed - which was why the team and supporters ended up tramping all over the North at one point: https://www.irishnews.com/sport/2020/04/22/news/martin-o-neill-and-the-macrory-cup-fall-out-of-1971-1910750/
Didn't Martin O'Neill play in that match? Why the chant?
He did, indeed - which was why the team and supporters ended up tramping all over the North at one point: https://www.irishnews.com/sport/2020/04/22/news/martin-o-neill-and-the-macrory-cup-fall-out-of-1971-1910750/ (https://www.irishnews.com/sport/2020/04/22/news/martin-o-neill-and-the-macrory-cup-fall-out-of-1971-1910750/)Thanks Stiofan that link was a great read. That final was indeed a heartbreaker. I dont know how this could have happened but I remember playing on the same team as Martin in a match. I was obviously much younger. Maybe it was an end of term thing or sports day? I was not a particularly gifted player but I did love playing. Is it possible that the bus fire was on the way to Clones for a match?
The game at Croke Park itself was a real heartbreaker. Funnily, the other team's colours were the St Malachy's school colours, which meant that, with our flags and scarves, it looked as though we were supporting them.
Here's another GAA-related question: does anyone remember the bus which caught fire while we were going to one of the games? In my mind, it was the game at Croke Park, but I'm fairly sure that we went there and back by train.
Here’s a very long shot. When I first arrived in 1965, an exuberant 6th-former called Derek Davis was fronting a project to make a cine film (I use the old phrase because I remember the clockwork camera that they used) of daily College life. Derek went on to a very successful career as an RTE presenter. It’s possible that not much came of the film project because Derek had many other interests (I once saw him fronting a showband in Donegal) and sadly he died in 2015 so we can’t ask him. If you unearth anything, let us know.
Good luck with your research.
I've just been informed on the St. Pat's Knock page, that Fr. O'Sullivan who taught at St. Malachys for many years before he came to St. Pats, has died.I had him as a maths teacher in the mid 1950s. think he was less interested in maths than in yarning with the soccer-heads in the class. Nickname "John L", I suspect in reference to a famous Irish-American boxer - or maybe he really did have a second name beginning with L. May he rest in peace.
R.I.P. Fr. O'Sullivan
Thanks Stiofan that link was a great read. That final was indeed a heartbreaker. I dont know how this could have happened but I remember playing on the same team as Martin in a match. I was obviously much younger. Maybe it was an end of term thing or sports day? I was not a particularly gifted player but I did love playing. Is it possible that the bus fire was on the way to Clones for a match?There are two photographs of that bus fire, on the M1, on p.78 of the 1969-70 Collegian. I think it was when we played St. Macartans's, Monaghan, in the Rannafast Cup; so it was probably Clones, but I do not remember.
One thing I could never understand was the post of Dean of Discipline. Many or most of the teachers seemed perfectly prepared to use the cane or the strap, so what was the point of having a Dean of Discipline to do the same thing? Just curious.Well, Fr. Murray and Fr. Purdy would do the rounds between lessons and at break/lunch times, just keeping an eye out for any rule-breaking. They patrolled at lesson-breaks and would slap the whole class (with that stubby bit of leather they carried) if you were seated in a classroom with the door closed. I remember Fr. Purdy's untimely and sudden death being announced in Mr Cavanagh's French class - we very nearly cheered!
If the chant had anything to do with a certain member of the office staff, then I do. Looking back on it now, it was pretty cruel to single out someone who was just doing his job, although at the time it was funny. It's lucky that we grow up, really.I vaguely remember that, Jim, but the main chant was, of course, a rather facetious reference to the impending 1970s World Cup, by some Junior boys (of whom I was one). I think there was a banner, too.
Instructions given by Chris atPhotos now available, mostly without names, at the School website (click on Alumni/Alumni Network/Collegian Photographs)
http://www.belfastforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,26595.0.html (http://www.belfastforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,26595.0.html)
some years ago, but probably still valid.
Anyway. I got through it. Now 64 and it is in the past.It's not just "in the past". It helped to make us who we are today. To put it quite simply, the College took a lot of bright kids and beat the crap out of them until they were convinced that they were stupid and worthless. It wasn't until I left the College and went to another school in another country that I realised that "education' wasn't a synonym for ritual humiliation
It's not just "in the past". It helped to make us who we are today. To put it quite simply, the College took a lot of bright kids and beat the crap out of them until they were convinced that they were stupid and worthless. It wasn't until I left the College and went to another school in another country that I realised that "education' wasn't a synonym for ritual humiliation